MERGED->What is wrong with Vertigo 2005?+Bono's singing. hmmm+Bono, your killing me

[martha]

I used to be a huge Steel Pulse fan. Saw them in Jamaica at Reggae Sunsplash, saw them in Reseda again. Then they changed musical direction, and political direction unfortunately. I saw them at the Greek Theatre and they sucked. The album they were touring for sucked.

But while I did complain somewhat, I didn't do it on the way to see more concerts! I didn't bitch about ticket prices, lack of passion, setlists and such while I was planning on going to more shows.

I just stopped buying their records and going to see them.

I still listen to the old albums that I liked. I still wish they didn't suck. But I haven't joined a Steel Pulse fansite and complained about them becoming a nostalgia act, then gotten my panties wadded up when someone who's still a fan calls me on it.

 

[bono_man]

The varied responses to this thread say it all...we didnt have this for elevation. Im still scared...

 

[RobH]

...complained about them becoming a nostalgia act, then gotten my panties wadded up when someone who's still a fan calls me on it.

So it goes back to the old love'em or leave 'em thoery eh. There's no in between in that world I guess. Shut up and love them or give me your tickets. Write positive reviews, or none at all. They've changed for the better--you're stuck in your old ways and you must suck.

Yeah, that's the type of forum I'm looking for.

 

[stevec]

Yeah I think that's fair comment on Steel Pulse Martha, as you clearly made an informed decision and have stuck to your guns, so-to-speak.

As for U2 fans criticising - I think a fair criticism based on fact is ok, even if that person remains a fan and maybe just wants a second opinion on whatever it may be. I just don't get folks just coming here to start a thread for that reason alone. The ones that really tick me off are the lip-synching accusations - they are simply ridiculous and clearly just there to rile others!

There are plenty of bands I don't like, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I join their online fanclubs just to be derisory about them. I really couldn't be bothered wasting my time like that

 

[RobH]

I just don't get folks just coming here to start a thread for that reason alone.

Why not? Where else should topics like this be discussed? Is this forum only for flag-wavers? What's wrong with dissention? Is it 1984? No, wait a minute; it can't be. If it were, then U2 would be putting on totally kick-ass shows and I'd be psyched to see them.

 

[joyfulgirl]

Is it 1984? No, wait a minute; it can't be. If it were, then U2 would be putting on totally kick-ass shows and I'd be psyched to see them.

Well see, that is a pointless comment. No, it's not 1984 and it will never be 1984 again. Do you see how you sound as if you are angry that U2 are not doing the same shows they did in 1984? I mean, come on. There are legitimate criticisms from sincere fans, and then there are just pointless whining comments like that. You can't have 1984 back. You just can't.

 

[RobH]

Well see, that is a pointless comment. No, it's not 1984 and it will never be 1984 again. Do you see how you sound as if you are angry that U2 are not doing the same shows they did in 1984? I mean, come on. There are legitimate criticisms from sincere fans, and then there are just pointless whining comments like that. You can't have 1984 back. You just can't.

Oh jeez....Orwell spinning in his grave. You've missed the point entirely but I'm in a rush and can't explain again. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[Zooropa man]

Bono's singing..... hmmmmm

Ok, Im not bashing or anything on those lines. I've downloaded a couple of shows and ........ I'm having trouble sleeping at night because of the way he is singing some songs. He has the best voice out there bar none. But, is it too much trouble for him to hit the notes and sing them right? I mean, it seems as if the effort is not being made. As if there is no interest in getting the total emotion out of the songs. For example, WOWOY, I know that they have only played it a couple of times and it just dosen't give me the same emotion when I hear the slane, boston and rattle & hum version. Im I the only one that feels that way? I went to two shows and they sound amazing live but it seems that the way he is singing on the old songs is just decent but can do much much better. I just hope that he is not having trouble with his voice. And if that is so, then it justifies everything.

 

[starsgoblue]

Not for nothing...but it is his line...can't he change it if he wants to?

 

[stevec]

Why not? Where else should topics like this be discussed? Is this forum only for flag-wavers? What's wrong with dissention? Is it 1984? No, wait a minute; it can't be. If it were, then U2 would be putting on totally kick-ass shows and I'd be psyched to see them.

God almighty Rob, you took one sentence form my post and it was completely out of context. I'm not promoting Orwellian ideals like censorship, but I do think that some threads (as I went on to mention) are simply posted to get a reaction. Do you honestly think that they serve any purpose, other than to give the poster a laugh at our expense?

In my previous post I also said that people are entitled to their opinions, but equally should be respectful of others. In that sense, I mean opinions that are not simply "they are shit!" without any attempt to validate the comment.

If someone isn't feeling the same way about U2 now as they used to, I'm not about to tell them they are wrong for feeling that way - it's THEIR feeling after all. People change and that includes U2 as well, so I have no problem with that.

I'm not disagreeing with you, so don't be so quick to be on the defensive.

 

[corianderstem]

The varied responses to this thread say it all...we didnt have this for elevation. Im still scared...

What are you scared of?

For the sake of argument, let's say everyone loved the Elevation tour. Now not everyone loves the Vertigo tour. That's okay. Really! The U2 world isn't coming to an end. Not everyone will like everything, and it doesn't necessarily mean that U2 are on a downhill slide.

I still stand firm in my belief that more people are internet savvy than 5 years ago, during the Elevation tour. Hell, I was very internet savvy back then, but I wasn't active on any U2 fan sites. Between then and now, I would guess there have been a LOT of U2 fans (new and old) who have discovered fan sites to hang out and talk about things.

Just because Interference wasn't so divided during Elevation doesn't mean that everyone loved the tour.

 

[joyfulgirl]

Oh jeez....Orwell spinning in his grave. You've missed the point entirely but I'm in a rush and can't explain again. Maybe tomorrow.

I got the Orwell reference, lost as it nearly was in the wishing for kick-ass shows of the past. But do clarify...

 

[stevec]

Hi joyful - Rob was talking about the George Orwell book '1984', where society was denied independent thought and speach by the government, epitomised by the character "Big Brother".

He was drawing comparisons between that fictional government that censored its people and their liberties, and the way he thinks this forum is, or is at least becoming.

Great book - not so great film (but then screenplays rarely compare favourably)

 

[stevec]

Oops you replied quicker than I can type joyful LOL

Sorry - didn't mean it to sound like a leterary lecture.

 

[ShellBeThere]

Wait, I'm still getting a little confused about what we're chatting about...
Do some feel that the concert as it is playing lately is feeling too much like a best-of show? is that it?
Or that their current material, like the last 2 albums, doesn't float their boats? Because I'm seeing a little of each, and I don't see how one could expect to like the concerts if he doesn't like the material.
If it's the material, then I don't get why you'd expect Vertigo to be great. I personally wouldn't mind a bit if they devised a Vertigo show that was pretty much the whole album (with Fast Cars too please!) plus some extras. Just the whole playlist in order would be fine...
But if a person doesn't like the new stuff, then you'd think they'd want to hear old stuff...why go otherwise, right?
So, why does it feel like the self-same at times are then bitching about the old stuff being tired?!
I like discussion, but that's one part I'm not understanding...
is it the "wrong" old stuff they're playing?!
what exactly would please then? just different music being created by a different band, or timetravel, or what?
setlist flow is one thing, staging another, but the vague call for 'boundary pushing' and 'challenges' is puzzling to me.


cheers all!

 

[joyfulgirl]

Oops you replied quicker than I can type joyful LOL

Sorry - didn't mean it to sound like a leterary lecture.

It's okay. I did read the book like 25 years ago, lol...

I'm all for dissent. I am all for people airing their criticisms about the tour. I have no problem with that at all. But obviously it was the other part of his post that bugged me. I read a double reference for '1984'. He was at first talking about Orwellian 1984 and then segued into kick-ass U2 shows of that era. But it's hardly worth talking about now, lol.

 

[martha]

So it goes back to the old love'em or leave 'em thoery eh. There's no in between in that world I guess. Shut up and love them or give me your tickets. Write positive reviews, or none at all. They've changed for the better--you're stuck in your old ways and you must suck.

Yeah, that's the type of forum I'm looking for.

No, that's not it at all. Constructive criticism is one thing, but this constant harping that the band isn't what it used to be gets so old. It's ok to be disappointed about the album, the tour, whatever. But to say they should be what they were 30, 20, 10 years ago is just bullshit. They are who they are now. Be disappointed if you need to be, but make a decision. Either stay a fan or don't. Quit yammering about it here.

 

[U2FanPeter]

Another reason might be the new GA system means that "we" can't see 8 straight shows from ellipse. The Elevation system was more fan friendly.

u2fp

 

[joyfulgirl]

what exactly would please then? just different music being created by a different band, or timetravel, or what?

cheers all!

timetravel

 

[stevec]

ShellBeThere - All I can say is that I'm really looking forward to the show. I have enjoyed all of the albums to greater and lesser degrees, so I am very excited about the Vertigo stuff live but just as keen to hear older songs.

Not having been to any earlier shows than Zoo TV, I am really looking forward to live versions of An Cat Dubh, The Ocean and especially "40" (I feel like I missed something important by never hearing a concert end on "40" - LOL). I think it's good that they are tipping their collective hats to the very early material.

Yeah I've done a lot of head-scratching while reading some posts too, but I guess that's just the nature of forums. what can ya do eh?

 

[stevec]

timetravel

Yeah and while you're sorting out the time travel bit, can you fix it so that I see the hole in the ground before I fall into it and wreck my knee in 2001?

That'd be sweet thanks

 

[stevec]

It's okay. I did read the book like 25 years ago, lol...

I'm all for dissent. I am all for people airing their criticisms about the tour. I have no problem with that at all. But obviously it was the other part of his post that bugged me. I read a double reference for '1984'. He was at first talking about Orwellian 1984 and then segued into kick-ass U2 shows of that era. But it's hardly worth talking about now, lol.

Heh heh - I get it now. D'oh!!

 

[Moneypenny]

Hearing it live really made me appreciate the new material more. LAPOE and Vertigo especially, Miracle Drug and Sometimes to a lesser degree. That is all.

 

[Harry Vest]

The two versions of "Bad" that I've heard lately sound great. In fact I was surprised at the strength of his voice. I haven't heard anything else from the tour though.

 

[Zooropa man]

Well, if you get a chance, listen to some of the bootlegs that are out. Compare them and just listen to the effort being put into singing the lyrics. They are good but not mind blowing by any means.

 

[corianderstem]

Wait, what's not mind-blowing? The singing, the lyrics or the effort?

 

[*sofia*]

repeating an earlier question:

who´s daughter is ill with what disease?

and i´m getting a bit nervous because of the very high price i paid for the tickets.. but it sounds a bit far-fetched that i´d go to a U2 concert and be disappointed.. there´s no way. noooo I won´t believe it. *goes out and thinks of something nicer*

 

[RobH]

Ok...yes--was originally talking about how some people don't seem to think it's ok for people to come on here and criticize the band (that was in reference to the book 1984)...then, yes, I segued into the though that if it WAS actually 1984 (the actual year 21 years ago), people wouldn't be complaining as much because U2 put on consistently kick-ass shows, full of passion and vitality. Which just doesn't seem to be the case now.

At no time did I say I wished the band revert back to a 1984 setlist, or that I wish things never changed from then.

On the contrary, I wished that U2 had kept evolving to the point where they could go out and play their material from the last ten years with gusto and strong conviction. But the material doesn't stack up, so we get the same songs time and again--some being delivered at substandard levels.

My original comments were more in response to the Steel Pulse comment, Steve. I expect MUCH more out of U2 thatn Steel Pulse. Especially at these prices.

 

[namkcuR]

Blah Blah Blah.

Yes, U2 are on the downswing of their career - this much is obvious. But no band can continue the succession of creative brilliance witnessed during UF-JT-R&H-AB indefinitely. Just as any basketball player can catch fire and hit everything he puts up, bands can do the same thing. U2 were on fire(no pun intended) from 1984-1993 pretty much. Everything they put up went in(was brilliant). But every band, given that they stay together long enough, will eventually pass its peak. Every mountain has a downhill slope on the other side of the peak. Believe it or not, if McCartney and Lennon hadn't grown to hate each other and the Beatles had stayed together, today we might be talking about how they're just a nostalgia act and how they haven't put anything of relevance out since Let It Be way back in 69. But the Beatles did end then and so they never finished the natural progression that all long-standing pop/rock bands go through.

And the same idea goes for touring.

When a band has been around as long as U2 has, it's GOING to get a little repetative and there are GOING to be songs that just will never be permanently dropped. It's not that easy to satisfy a massive fanbase when they all agree on what should be played, let alone when one group is tired of the standards, one group is younger and wants to hear the standards for the first time in person, one group is bitching and moaning about how the 90s minus AB are being ignored, etc etc etc. And that's just the SETLIST! That doesn't even begin to mention how much complaining I'm hearing about the presentation of the tour. You know what's ironic? What's ironic is that all these people say, with regards to the tour/record, 'oh, I wish they were still adventerous and into trying new things like they used to be', yet all they are really wanting is for U2 to make records similar to the experimental ones they've already made, AB et al. If you really wanted something brand new and adventerous, you would be dreaming up something that U2 has never done before, instead of moaning about how this tour should be more like ZooTV or Popmart(which were both brilliant, btw).

And that's really the point of this...U2 in all likelyhood will never reach the platau of brilliance they inhabited in the second half of the 80s and first half of the 90s again - no band stays there forever. But just because they're not on that platau anymore doesn't mean they're at the bottom of the ocean. They are still better than the majority of the bands out there. People just need to be accepting of the possibility of U2 actually putting out something different from anything else they've put out, instead of hoping beyond hope that U2 replicates a record(s) that were different from anything else U2 had put out - in 1993.

 

[joyfulgirl]

At no time did I say I wished the band revert back to a 1984 setlist, or that I wish things never changed from then.

Ok...gotcha. We're cool. Thanks.