It is NOT the ECONOMY Stupid for Presidentail Approval Ratings in America

[Like someone to blame]

Umm.
Well you better talk to Bono about that because he said it..on CSPAN... I HEARD it come from his OWN mouth.

He then went on and sais he THOUGHT THE ADMINISTRATION'S MOTIVES WERE SINCERE. Maybe you can get him to retract BOTH those statements, Brother Someone?
It seems you may have a problem w/Bono's openmindeness?
Perhaps?
My point is this..Bono is NOT the same person he was 15 yrs ago..
Bono has evolved as a person

The Republican Party has evolved as a Party.
Youre prloly NOT the same person that you were 15 yrs ago.,correct?
.I know Im not.

Furthurmore..DATA has Republicans involved, and Drop The Debt is a Bi-Partisan endeavor.

Lastly, w/Bono supporting the War On Terror..he isnt totally aligning himself w/Amnesty International( remember-theyre opposed) now-like he was in the 1980's now is he Brother Someone?
You see Bono has also evolved.

Get over Bono's compassion and openmindedness and you will have no one to blame.
Your friend-
DB9

diamond:

There are certain political causes and issues that from time to time transcend political philophies and leanings. DATA & Drop The Debt are two examples of this. In other words, these causes are so common sense to the average person that to oppose them would be bordering on political insanity. Keep in mind the fact that these causes are progressive in nature-causes created by and championed by the left for the future well being of all mankind. These causes represent not Bono's "openmindedness" but rather his ability to "open" the minds of those hard line, unsympathetic right wingers out there. Those are the ones who have had their minds opened in all of this!

You contend that Bono supports the war on terrorism...that is a very generalized statement and depends on what your definition of "supporting the war on terrorism" really is. I gather from Bono's statements that he supports eradicating religious zealots and fanatics-but he has always maintained ( and still does) his disdain for killing and war (very much in line with Amnesty). Bono would argue to you (and me) that bringing people out of poverty and educating them will do far more to stop future terrorist attacks here and abroad then smart bombs and daisycutters. He is consistent on this subject time and again.

Bono may have made those statements on C-Span (I have it on videotape so I'll let you know in a private message) but again-even if those comments were made as you suggest you must not forget the context within which they were made. Bono is trying to get something he wants-and is playing the "I'm politically neutral" card to this administration to achieve the results he seeks. His track record is otherwise. You have not presented any hard evidence that suggests Bono is "moderating" his views. His actions are speaking louder than the words you claim he has uttered.

Face it...conservative fans of U2 are always trying to somehow "justify" and "reconcile" there love of this band against their own personal, conservative convictions. I view ithis struggle like the old cartoons where there is an angel speaking to you in one ear and the devil in the other...the angel is telling you to turn away from the music and the devil is telling you to pay no attention to the angel! If it makes you feel better and helps you to enjoy U2 more for erroneously implying that Bono has "righted" himself than great! Whatever works for ya...but I would suggest that upon furthur reveiw of the facts you will concede that to say Bono is "A Political" is a stretch, a BIG stretch!

Bottom line: Contend that Bono has moderated his views all you want...the facts jsimply contradict your arguments.

Prediction: Americans finally awaken from their post 9/11 shock and realize the sham of an agenda Bush has been ramming down their throats under the auspices and illusion of a "war". His public opinion drops like a daisycutter on a mudhut and he suffers the same fate as his papa did before him. Fortunately, John Kerry becomes our next President and rights the ship.

God Bless America!

 

[z edge]

Bono would argue to you (and me) that bringing people out of poverty and educating them will do far more to stop future terrorist attacks here and abroad then smart bombs and daisycutters. He is consistent on this subject time and again.

Perhaps, but:

"The only fitting memorial for those lives that were lost is the idea that the world is forever changed by this moment in time, that it is a better more inclusive place, and that we cut off the oxygen supply to these crazy fanatics "

-Bono, Austin Texas November 5 2001

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Come on, you don't see how Bush is milking this to the best of
his advantage?

Let's say - for a moment - that Bush is acting in his own self-interest, rather than the interest of the nation.

(What evidence do you have of that? High poll numbers? Is it not possible that the man is following his principles and the poll numbers are simply following that? Or is EVERY action that the nation approves of somehow suspect?)

Even if he is, that's a little bit different than what Hitler did: creating crises himself (including the burning of the Riechstag) to assume dictatorial powers.

So, unless you want to assert that A) Bush planned or knowingly allowed 19 terrorists to kill over 3,000 Americans or B) Bush is actually assuming dictatorial powers, STAND DOWN.

 

[diamond]

:

", and that we cut off the oxygen supply to these crazy fanatics "

-Bono, Austin Texas November 5 2001

There you have it Brother Someone
ZEdge pulls out a nice quote.

That was an excellent piece you wrote, did Melon help you w/it?

Brother Someone- you are IN DENIAL. If you maintain that the Republican Party is exactly the same Party is was long ago and Bono has the same feelings for THIS Administration as Regan and Bush Sr. than you are guilty of libel.

Hope you can sleep well.
Im telling Bono on you.

DB9

 

[Like someone to blame]

diamond:

you are right...that was a cute little quote z edge pulled out of his butt...I'm just not sure that it enhances your cause any, however. It really depends on how one interprets /defines Bono's meaning of "cutting off the oxygen supply". You see...when he says 'oxygen supply' he refers to the cause, or root of the problem. In other words he is simply acknowledging that the "fuel" of this religious fanaticism must be corrected. Clearly, he means this within within the context of his fight against third world debt and poverty...which scholarly studies validate as a major reason for fanatacism.

Therefore, z edge has unwittingly helped advance my argument by supplying this quote...because when Bono says "...and that we cut off the oxygen to these crazy fanatics" I read that to mean "...we get to the root of the problem" -which we know is largely due to poverty/debt in third world countries. That quote is by no means an endorsement of Bush's bombing policy and to interpret it as such is preposterous. It is only a quote explaining that unless we (the industrialized world) do something about the daily atrocities afflicting third world countries than the "oxygen" will keep getting supplied to the fanatics...which I think we all can agree is not what we want!

 

[diamond]

Someone-
Ok then when Bono on Thanksgiving said he saluted the American Military on Jay Leno and sang for them EXCLUSIVELY as a THANK YOU for their hard work?
When he CRADLED AND HUGGED the AMERICAN FLAG at EVERY 3rd LEG SHOW? He was NOT supporting the US Military?
Umm.
Have you considered becoming a Spin Doctor Brother Someone.?
Your posts are slipping in credibility as this thread continues.
I do agree w/Bono about getting education to the countrys who sponsor terrorism to uproot the problem, I , as well as some other broad-minded Republicans..

Thank you for your feeble efforts my brother-
Diamond

 

[Like someone to blame]

diamond:

Please don't fabricate my words or take them out of context. I never said Bono wasn't supporting our U.S. military operations-simply that he'd prefer to see (ultimately) a different approach.

Anyways...it is you by friend whose posts are quickly slipping in quality on this topic...maybe it is time to lay this one to rest big guy!

Later
Like Someone

 

[z edge]

diamond:

you are right...that was a cute little quote z edge pulled out of his butt...

excuse me genius:
the only thing that I pull out of my butt (thank you for noticing my butt btw) is waste and waste paper. It is not kind to refer to the lead singer of U2 (Bono---> ) as such, since he said that quote to me and 20,000 on more than one occasion.

I'm just not sure that it enhances your cause any, however. It really depends on how one interprets /defines Bono's meaning of "cutting off the oxygen supply". You see...when he says 'oxygen supply' he refers to the cause, or root of the problem. In other words he is simply acknowledging that the "fuel" of this religious fanaticism must be corrected. Clearly, he means this within within the context of his fight against third world debt and poverty...which scholarly studies validate as a major reason for fanatacism.

Speaking of studies, in school they taught us that oxygen was something we breathe. Therefore, "oxygen supply", as Bono puts it , would be what the " crazy fanatics " breathe. Without said oxygen supply these said fanatics (crazy) could not live. The hypothesis suggest that Bono meant we "cut off" said supply. I think for extra credit on the exam the answer is we kill them

Therefore, z edge has unwittingly helped advance my argument by supplying this quote...because when Bono says "...and that we cut off the oxygen to these crazy fanatics" I read that to mean "...we get to the root of the problem"

perhaps "...we get to the root of the problem"
by means of
B-52 Stratofortress
B-1 Bomber
B-2 Stealth Bomber
F-117 Stealth Fighter
F-15
F-16

-which we know is largely due to poverty/debt in third world countries.

How impoverished is Osama Bin Laden?
How well funded is Al Queda
If they are so impoverished, how are they so spread out around the globe? In cells in every nook and cranny?
If 3rd world debt is their cause, why do they run and hide while sending their lieutenants" into suicide missions?

This is a well planned-well funded mission. Poverty is not even seen by the perpetrators of this horrendous act

That quote is by no means an endorsement of Bush's bombing policy and to interpret it as such is preposterous.

Then perhaps he meant we should hook them (the terrorists) up to nitrous oxide (medicinal type ) and all have a merry laugh-fest

 

[Like someone to blame]

z edge: Your particiaption in this thread is no longer needed...you have nothing of intellect to offer on this subject...maybe you should simply stick to participating in those "poll" forums...they don't require much thought. Goodbye.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Z edge:

Nice post. Keep up the good work.

Bubba

 

[LOVE MUSCLE]

mad spit me will ya??? hahaha

z edge: Your particiaption in this thread is no longer needed...you have nothing of intellect to offer on this subject...maybe you should simply stick to participating in those "poll" forums...they don't require much thought. Goodbye.

Is this like the NFL or MLB or NBA when the ref/ump says to the player "You're outta here"!!?

Sorry, I have as much right to this as you Someone because I am someone too (not just their muscle o' love)

I think I broke it down nicely for you. If Bono has a different opinion than you, then sorry. IMHO, you twisted the obvious meaning of his words around to fit into your peaceful demeanor. But unfortunately, it dosen't work that way in real life my friend.

You can't fight this type of blaze with flowers and fantasies, fair it is not. You need to realize the severity of the situation. The terrorists are not going to suddenly stop their assault on us/them just because we give $500 billion to Africa.

Nice dream though

 

[Hi Bias]

Question:

What do Diamond, Achtung Bubba, z edge, and Lemonite use for birth control?

 

[LOVE MUSCLE]

Question:

What do Diamond, Achtung Bubba, z edge, and Lemonite use for birth control?

Answer:

You

 

[Foxxern]

How impoverished is Osama Bin Laden?
How well funded is Al Queda
If they are so impoverished, how are they so spread out around the globe? In cells in every nook and cranny?
If 3rd world debt is their cause, why do they run and hide while sending their lieutenants" into suicide missions?

Most Americans seem to have this misconception that its only Al-Qaeda and bin Laden who hate America, and the rest of the world is with us in this war on terrorism. What people don't see is that while Al-Qaeda itself is well-funded, the organization has persisted because of the feelings of those who are not even part of the group. Anti-American sympathies are not limited to the leaders of these terrorist groups. Those feelings can be found in normal, working people in most Muslim countries. They don't care much for America, and they don't particularly oppose any efforts which are made against us. They are the groups from whom suicide bombers are born. They are the poor, sick, and desperate.

Destroy bin Laden and Al-Qaeda, go right on ahead. The people will still be there. The anti-American sentiment will still be there. And the terrorist groups will spring up one by one to take the place of the one that was destroyed.

If you put up a dartboard, eventually anyone with a bunch of darts is going to score a bullseye. The solution isn't to take out the people doing the throwing, but to not be a dartboard. Otherwise, you fight a futile war that never ends. Unfortunately, that's what we find ourselves stuck in right now.

 

[Hi Bias]

Question:

What do Diamond, Achtung Bubba, z edge, and Lemonite use for birth control?

Answer:

The sharing of their political views.

 

[LOVE MUSCLE]

Bush-Cheney 2004

Answer:

The sharing of their political views.

Very funny
but you did leave a few conservatives out of this as I think there are actually 8 of us here now not counting my alters

But you still sound like a GORE-loser to me

XOXOXOXO

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Very witty, Hi Bias.

If you have anything of substance to add to the debate, don't hesitate to mention it.

If you put up a dartboard, eventually anyone with a bunch of darts is going to score a bullseye. The solution isn't to take out the people doing the throwing, but to not be a dartboard. Otherwise, you fight a futile war that never ends. Unfortunately, that's what we find ourselves stuck in right now.

The question is, is there times it's okay to be a dartboard? Take the case of cops and criminals. Often times, crime lords develop a deeply rooted hatred for the police officers who are trying to do their job and enforce the law - and these policemen become targets.

Is it a bad thing that the cops become targeted? Yes. Is having the cops back down from their duties the solution? Probably not.

What I'm saying is this: we may be envied and hated because of our freedom, our prosperity, and our role as the leader of the free world - and the cutting edge of the global politics and culture. If that IS the case (and I think it is), shying away from our position may not be the way to go.

 

[diamond]

Once again Bubba comes thru w/a GREAT ANALOGY.

Mr. Someone..you know I love you like a brother. however
I see 3 main problems The liberal/dems/left-leaning crowd are having here. And THIS IS SAD.

#1- They hate the FACT that Bono genuinely likes SOME Republicans NOW..This is their WORST nightmare

#2-Bush DOES have enough CREDIBILITY and CHARACTER to lead US in a time of war while the recent Dem Pres paled in comparison in that area..ie-Carter/Clinton..LET IT BE NOTED tho-
I LIKED lots of Clinton's domestic handling of issues.

#3- The Dems here ARE afraid of buying me my Diet Cokes in 2004.

Thank You.


Thats all.
Love-
Diamond

 

[DrTeeth]

Let's say - for a moment - that Bush is acting in his own self-interest, rather than the interest of the nation.

(What evidence do you have of that? High poll numbers? Is it not possible that the man is following his principles and the poll numbers are simply following that? Or is EVERY action that the nation approves of somehow suspect?)

Even if he is, that's a little bit different than what Hitler did: creating crises himself (including the burning of the Riechstag) to assume dictatorial powers.

So, unless you want to assert that A) Bush planned or knowingly allowed 19 terrorists to kill over 3,000 Americans or B) Bush is actually assuming dictatorial powers, STAND DOWN.

Stand down on what? Stand down on analogy's which I believe are valid? Stand down when I criticize Bush' foreign policy? Do you think I only have the right to criticize the US government if I agree to your little A and B? Do you actually think I spelled 'criticize' correctly?

The only thing I ever said about a Bush/Hitler parallel was that they both unified their countries by focussing on a common enemy, gaining a lot of popularity in the process. No matter how many differences between Bush and Hitler you point out, it doesn't make my initial statement less true (les true??)

And I'm not sure what evidence for Bush' milking policy you'd accept. A memo from the FBI (or CIA or whatever) in which they openly declare using the terrorist attacks to their advantage? A note from Bush himself saying that very same thing with his signature underneath it (or in his case, a big X)?

Look, I'm not saying Bush organized these attacks or that he wasn't genuinly devastated like the rest of us. But from a purely political point of view, 11-9 was the best that could ever happen to him.

BTW Diamond, don't you know Diet anything sucks?

 

[LOVE MUSCLE]

I fear Diamond would be right in that if elections were held today, he'd win. Of course, since he didn't really win last time, I guess it would be nice for him to officially win this time.

Yes he would win Dr.BooHoo
and btw
It's not very sexy to be a Gore Loser

 

[LOVE MUSCLE]

what the hell is in the water over there?

But from a purely political point of view, 11-9 was the best that could ever happen to him.

with statements like that (which suck) I believe you should STAND DOWN on the issue.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Stand down on what? Stand down on analogy's which I believe are valid? Stand down when I criticize Bush' foreign policy? Do you think I only have the right to criticize the US government if I agree to your little A and B? Do you actually think I spelled 'criticize' correctly?

The only thing I ever said about a Bush/Hitler parallel was that they both unified their countries by focussing on a common enemy, gaining a lot of popularity in the process. No matter how many differences between Bush and Hitler you point out, it doesn't make my initial statement less true (les true??)

I don't know what you're getting at about spelling "criticize" or "less," and I honestly don't care.

You DID say more than "they both unified their countries by focussing on a common enemy, gaining a lot of popularity in the process."

Need I remind you?

"Bush is playing the propaganda thing just like Hitler did."

Now, if I remember my history studies, Hitler ORCHESTRATED events to assume power and led Germany into STARTING a war by invading Poland.

Saying that Bush is essentially "pulling a Hitler" is to suggest that Bush either knew about 9/11 OR is using it to attack people who had nothing to do with it.

THAT comment in particular should be recanted or defended. Back down from that comment, or start backing it up.

 

[diamond]

At the end of the day..
My hope and prayer is THAT,

People like-
Dr Teeth
Mr Someone
Dr.Who
Elvis
Salome , Melon -
and others will appreciate the situation are President is in.. and admit that-

He didnt manufacture it.
He didn't 'hope' for it.
He isnt trying to "MILK IT" at the expense of innocent lives..or Polictical gain
and that-
THE POLLS indicate he is doing a DECENT job re under these conditions...
Thats all.

Thanks-
and
Peace-
Diamond
Remember this ISNT Disneyland anymore and a safer world has its expenses.
DB9

 

[Salome]

At the end of the day..
My hope and prayer is THAT,

People like-
Dr Teeth
Mr Someone
Dr.Who
Elvis
Salome , Melon -
and others will appreciate the situation are President is in.. and admit that-

I hope that at the end of the day I will be left allone
without people who pretend to know what it is I am thinking/appreciating

 

[Foxxern]

What I'm saying is this: we may be envied and hated because of our freedom, our prosperity, and our role as the leader of the free world - and the cutting edge of the global politics and culture. If that IS the case (and I think it is), shying away from our position may not be the way to go.

I would have to disagree with the idea that we are hated simply because of our values of personal freedom. I think it simply isn't that ideological. It comes down to the fact that they see us as forcing our Western values onto their Muslim/Eastern values. They see that we are exploiting their trust to make us richer, while giving them little to no pieces of the pie. We go there and build factories to make our products as cheaply as possible, while paying them very little for their labor. They get sucked in by promises of prosperity and growth that never come to be. As long as our riches are based on their work, that's just the way its going to be. If we don't go there with an attitude to help them truly improve their lives, they will never see us as their friends, only as their cunning enemies.

We're also not winning many friends by so fervently supporting Israel. I'm not saying that I think Israel should be reclaimed, but Palestinians and other Muslims probably are not too happy about their land being taken from under their feet like that. They see it as an invasion of their territory, backed by us. Israel uses American weapons, and political support here is for them. Logically, the friend of my enemy is also my enemy.

If we turn this into a simply ideological war, we risk turning this battle into the new Crusades. We have to recognize that there are concrete reasons why they hate us, and take steps to change they way we look at their cultures, as well as change they way they look at us. Only then can we even hope to end terrorism.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

I would have to disagree with the idea that we are hated simply because of our values of personal freedom. I think it simply isn't that ideological. It comes down to the fact that they see us as forcing our Western values onto their Muslim/Eastern values. They see that we are exploiting their trust to make us richer, while giving them little to no pieces of the pie. We go there and build factories to make our products as cheaply as possible, while paying them very little for their labor. They get sucked in by promises of prosperity and growth that never come to be. As long as our riches are based on their work, that's just the way its going to be. If we don't go there with an attitude to help them truly improve their lives, they will never see us as their friends, only as their cunning enemies.

While I agree that the clash may be more than idealogical, I still don't believe that it means we're necessarily wrong; nor do I buy the poverty argument - given that so many of the terrorists (bin Ladin, his Saudi supporters) are/were filthy rich.

We're also not winning many friends by so fervently supporting Israel. I'm not saying that I think Israel should be reclaimed, but Palestinians and other Muslims probably are not too happy about their land being taken from under their feet like that. They see it as an invasion of their territory, backed by us. Israel uses American weapons, and political support here is for them. Logically, the friend of my enemy is also my enemy.

Again, this may be true, but it may be the RIGHT thing to defend Israel, the only democracy in the Mideast (and I believe it is the right thing to do).

If we turn this into a simply ideological war, we risk turning this battle into the new Crusades. We have to recognize that there are concrete reasons why they hate us, and take steps to change they way we look at their cultures, as well as change they way they look at us. Only then can we even hope to end terrorism.

In the first case, we must recall the the Crusades were partially caused when Muslims invaded Europe.

Beyond that, I'm not sure that changing the way each culture looks at each other will work. We certainly didn't take that road against Nazi Germany or the Japanese Empire, and it make not work here.

Though the WWII comparison may prove instructive: rather than our perspective of their culture, it was the enemy's culture itself that changed. That may be necessary here - particularly their inherent hatred of Jews and other non-Muslims. Changing the way they look at us (in this case, as humans that deserve to live on this planet as much as them) may result in a change of culture.

Hope I wasn't too incoherent...

 

[z edge]

We're also not winning many friends by so fervently supporting Israel. I'm not saying that I think Israel should be reclaimed, but Palestinians and other Muslims probably are not too happy about their land being taken from under their feet like that. They see it as an invasion of their territory, backed by us. Israel uses American weapons, and political support here is for them. Logically, the friend of my enemy is also my enemy.

Israel has often been referred to as "GOD's chosen people", not Allah's.

Big difference in the way some people selflessly die for GOD and others kill "in the name of Allah"

 

[diamond]

My brother who I love..little Foxxren..

I would have to disagree with the idea that we are hated simply because of our values of personal freedom. I think it simply isn't that ideological. It comes down to the fact that they see us as forcing our Western values onto their Muslim/Eastern values. They see that we are exploiting their trust to make us richer, while giving them little to no pieces of the pie. We go there and build factories to make our products as cheaply as possible, while paying them very little for their labor. They get sucked in by promises of prosperity and growth that never come to be. As long as our riches are based on their work, that's just the way its going to be. If we don't go there with an attitude to help them truly improve their lives, they will never see us as their friends, only as their cunning enemies.

We're also not winning many friends by so fervently supporting Israel. I'm not saying that I think Israel should be reclaimed, but Palestinians and other Muslims probably are not too happy about their land being taken from under their feet like that. They see it as an invasion of their territory, backed by us. Israel uses American weapons, and political support here is for them. Logically, the friend of my enemy is also my enemy.

If we turn this into a simply ideological war, we risk turning this battle into the new Crusades. We have to recognize that there are concrete reasons why they hate us, and take steps to change they way we look at their cultures, as well as change they way they look at us. Only then can we even hope to end terrorism.

Listen my little brother-
This is the mindset of today. It is inaccurate..Envy is what the others are about..
Plez dont buy into it.
Listen to Bubba and Spyplane.


Your
Friend-
DB9

 

[DrTeeth]

I don't know what you're getting at about spelling "criticize" or "less," and I honestly don't care.

You DID say more than "they both unified their countries by focussing on a common enemy, gaining a lot of popularity in the process."

Need I remind you?

"Bush is playing the propaganda thing just like Hitler did."

Now, if I remember my history studies, Hitler ORCHESTRATED events to assume power and led Germany into STARTING a war by invading Poland.

Saying that Bush is essentially "pulling a Hitler" is to suggest that Bush either knew about 9/11 OR is using it to attack people who had nothing to do with it.

THAT comment in particular should be recanted or defended. Back down from that comment, or start backing it up.

I think I finally see where you're coming from Bubba. You thought I meant that Bush is doing a 100% copy of what Hitler did? That wasn't what I meant at all. I was only using it as an introduction to my next sentence: "Hitler gained popularity by focussing on a common enemy (especially on the jews) and giving the Germans a sense of unity".

Didn't everything I wrote after the sentence "Bush is playing the propaganda thing just like Hitler did." didn't provide you with enough clues to understand my point of view?

 

[melon]

My thoughts?

-- Reagan-era deregulation has rendered government ineffective, with business increasingly taking over most essential functions. I await about fifty years for the military to be privatized, after all other government functions have been privatized to prop up the otherwise stagnant stock market. First up: Medicare and Social Security to be dumped into the stock market.

-- Presidents themselves are not that powerful by design. Credit for efficient government must be properly credited to all the arms of government; and the only thing "efficient" about this administration has been its virtually bloodless (re: American soldiers) invasion of Afghanistan. Expect a whole series of diversion legislation, including wars and uproar over the wholly symbolic Pledge of Allegiance that I think most of us don't recite after high school anyway. Expect an invasion of Iraq around election time this year.

-- The economy itself was not even healthy in the Clinton era. Our "prosperity" was the result of venture capitalism on an unprofitable new industry of dot-coms, supported by periodic infusion of 401 K funds and crooked accounting schemes to placate investor confidence. The only real solution, raising wages, is the one thing conservative think-tanks refuse to consider, blaming everything on "high taxes"; despite the fact that Bush's bank-breaking tax cut has done nothing to prop up the economy, as expected by liberal think-tanks. The rich have abandoned the stock market for now, instead pouring into secure real estate investments.

-- On bin Laden: he's a Saudi multimillionaire with issues against the Saudi imperial government, which is propped up by the United States. He just uses anti-Western, anti-Semitic Islamic fanaticism as an easy way to gain support for the means to his end. Ignorance only begets more ignorance. He's also very sick (kidney failure, coupled with a form of osteoporosis), and will die soon, if he hasn't already died.

-- The key to ending terrorism? Education and stable secular governments. Neither is in the Bush Administration's agenda, as we're having enough trouble separating Christian fanaticism from our own domestic agendas.

-- No one's interested in the truth; only a romanticized bloody film, with a fuzzy, unsubstanced, sappy ending worthy of Jerry Bruckheimer.

Melon