I'm bumping this up with some trepidation, because I'd really rather not see its discussion topic continued at all at this point. But, this thread has touched a deep nerve with a couple folks in ways I don't think the people who upset them really intended, and I feel like I need to address that here.
(Please note, the posters quoted below are NOT synonymous with the parties referred to above--I just chose these quotes because they're as good a segueway as any into what I wanted to say.)
AEON said:
Man...where are all the critics of the Quran? I mean, if you post something from the Bible - within minutes you receive a half dozen attacks about the Scripture.
AEON I understand your frustration. There are certainly a lot of contentious, highly charged debates relating to Christian(s)/-ity in here, and while most stay substantial, if heated, I think we can all acknowledge that they sometimes descend into petty recriminations and preachiness (not necessarily the religious variety). When that happens it can really cut deep on all sides, and I think the damage done is often more across-the-board than most of us realize. I will do my best to call out the most obvious wrongs when they happen (though I see I did manage to miss a snipe or two I should've caught in this thread, for which I apologize)--but, ultimately, there's only so much I can do to regulate the kind of deep-seated conflicts at work here.
I hope we can all try a little harder to not lose sight of the underlying camaraderie and mutual respect that makes our discussions here worth coming back for. I don't want to get all preachy about this, but please, guys--keep in mind that at the end of the day, whatever evil it is that you see fundamentalist politicians/opportunistic oppositionists/savage media pundits/etc. wreaking in the world around you, the poster you're debating with right now is NOT the enemy incarnate; they're just a friend, a colleague of sorts or at the very least, simply an opportunity to learn something, who checks in here for pretty much the same reasons and with pretty much the same hopes that you do. (And if you need a little inspiration to revive your flagging enthusiasm, maybe check out Irvine's wonderful "...change the world..." thread.)
Now...that said, and to return to AEON's quote...while I don't object as a moderator to the approach you took in this thread, AEON (i.e., it certainly breaks no forum rules), I have to say I do question whether it could ever work as a way to promote the sort of discussion you--or A_Wanderer, for that matter--probably intended. Not just for reasons I'll discuss below in response to nb's comment, but also because it occurred to me in reading through your Koran posts that if I came in here and saw someone tossing down a similar gauntlet, only from the Old Testament--collecting all the most violent, or xenophobic, or virulently sexist posts, which I'll freely acknowledge would be easy enough to do...then frankly, I think I would just shrink back, click out, and slink quietly away, concluding that here is someone who already has their mind so made up--and is probably, in truth, giving voice to the underlying judgment of enough others in here--that there's nothing I could really say that wouldn't come off as rote apologetics of the lamest sort.
I realize this may sound very hypocritical in light of what you've just pointed out about Christianity threads. And in some ways it probably is. But may I just suggest that in a social sense, this hypothetical would be quite different in that--so far as I know--I am really the only frequent Jewish poster in here. I would not have the confidence of knowing that there at least a couple people I could count on to substantially back me up--or maybe even more likely, lol, transform it into a ferocious factional debate between Jews who disagree completely with each other about the "correct" Jewish interpretations of various things. Can you understand how the latter is different from feeling totally alone? It at least affirms the fundamental awareness and social legitimacy of what you "belong" to in a way that being the token apologist cannot.
I'm not claiming that everyone would react in this way. If some outspoken Muslim, or Jew, or bona fide expert on either has more psychological stamina than I do, and really thrives on such a challenge--well, more power to them. But I think most would not, and that concerns me, because while I don't think anyone deserves kid-gloves treatment around here, I do want everyone to at least feel like they needn't fear being nailed alone to the wall and maybe even humiliated in front of everybody. You never know who might be reading what you say.
nbcrusader said:
It is not unusual for a thread on Islam to get a quick, unrelated interjection on Christianity "for balance".
I took a couple minutes to trace the trajectory of the discussion in this thread, and I have to disagree with you--
if you meant to suggest that that's what happened here (and if not, see below). What I saw was first iron horse, then AEON, interjecting unfavorable comparisons of Islam to Christianity into the thread, followed by critical responses from posters who disagreed with either this approach, or the claims made about Christianity, or both. I agree that what resulted was neither pretty nor (with some notable exceptions) particularly productive, but I can't agree that "for balance-ing"--at least in the sense I think you meant that--was what provoked the spats here.
Or perhaps the point you're making was simply that AEON's strategy was no worse than someone tossing in a caustic aside about Christians in a similarly-themed thread. If so, I agree to a point, and while it would be overzealous of me to go after every "quick interjection," I can certainly promise to watch for out-and-out derailments along those lines in the future. (Actually, I'm pretty sure I
have closed at least one thread for this precise reason at some point...but, my apologies if I've missed some others.) And again, I would appeal to everyone to practice a little more self-restraint in this regard--it really is just not that difficult to avoid taking potshots; even if someone else started it, you can always just politely call them on that, rather than returning fire. "Do unto others..."
I think AEON would agree, though, that what he was going for here was something considerably more systematic than that. And I've already addressed that issue above.
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So...anyways...I really am tempted to just lock this one up--but, in case anyone else wants to offer their own post-mortem perspective (constructive and polite suggestions only, please), I think I may just leave it open for now. (And I'm sorry for inviting further digressions, A_W...but, I'm afraid this one was already terminally derailed anyhow.)
~ Peace All...