ABC NEWS: Bono injured in rehearsal, undergoes emergency back surgery

[Benji2112]

Hi Birdlover,

A good friend of mine has Fibromyalgia and I can understand how difficult this is for you. I'm glad to hear that you take control of your health and do the research. I think that is an important message and every person should do the same.

Benj touched on something about over medicating. Luckily, I have a very good Internist. Maryland, U.S.A. Has some excellent doctors and hospitals. My bad cholesterol is a little high (It is hereditary) though my good cholesterol is great. He has me on the lowest dosage of meds. He believes in a "more old fashion approach" to well being. Such as, healthy lifestyle, proper rest, good diet filled with plenty of fresh vegetables and fruit, moderate exercise and finding something to do everyday that you really enjoy.

I like his approach. I am one, who does not want to take meds that I really don't need. One example from my own personal experience is. Three years ago, I was becoming Type 2 diabetic. My doctor told me what foods to eat and recommended that I continue with my daily walks. It worked for me. My Blood Sugar is now in the normal range. My point is......Another friend of mine had the same problem. Borderline Diabetes. Her doctor put on meds right away, instead of giving her time to see if the blood sugars could be control with healthier eating habits. To make this post short. The meds made her blood sugar drop much to low and she passed out. She is now off of the meds and is following the same advise that my doctor gave to me.

Every single medicine has a side effect, or multiple ones. They do a lot of good work with Diabetes where I work. Most of them do not involve meds. The understanding of that disease, and getting beyond meds as a means for a quality life, is now the norm. Before, it would have been meds only. Don't have it but I know people who test, inject all the time, when diet have proven itself the preffered treatment in many instances. Diet and exercise is the norm, and it works.

Glad to see this post, and that it is working for you. You have a good DR just based on the fact he knows the disease, and knows, because of many years of studies , diet and exercise works.

I am happy it did for you.

 

[last unicorn]

Benji, I appreciate that you care for Bono so much, still I think it's not up to us to make any judgement about his health issues and how they were treated and how they could have been treated, simply because we don't know anything, we can only speculate. Medical issues are a very private thing and I'm sure Bono never wanted anything to be made public. I'm sure he got all the help he needed through the years and he's smart enough to make the right choices when it comes to personal issues, that not only affect him but also his family and the band. But some things cannot be anticipated and do happen, it's unfortunate that something like that happened to him at this point.

And you always talk about the two shows you saw. I can tell you that I saw some shows of the tour and Bono seemed fine, and the majority of people here on the forum who went to shows also didn't say anything about Bono in pain. Now, It's good you're caring about him, but it could have been anything, not necessarily his back. I think we're just speculating at this point. He did a monster tour in 360 and he seemed to be in very good condition most of the time, you don't move like that on stage if you're having back pain. Of course, knowing his ongoing problems, it might have caused him pain now and then, but I don't think we should be over-dramatizing things here. I think he was pretty fine and got some good treatment. His back condition seemed to be worse during the Vertigo tour and he even admitted so in several interviews around that time.

Instead of blaming the Dr. that has been treating him (and many other people ... successfully) for any possible failures or trying to discredit his methods we should have some trust in Bono's decisions and remain confident that he's getting better now. I'm sure he has been - and still is - in great hands. German fans and media who know a bit about this particular Dr. have said he has the best medical team possible.

 

[Benji2112]

I'm sure Bono got enough "opinions". He isn't stupid and he can afford a team of excellent doctors and therapists. He has been in treatment for years and it obviously worked, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to perform for so long. The public just learned about his problem now because of this unfortunate incident.

Dr. Wohlfahrt's methods obviously helped Larry a big deal and he adviced Bono to consult the doctor. I'm sure Larry wouldn't give his friend bad advice, especially considering that the band's future kind of depends on Bono's health. I think we shouldn't get into speculation too much and get others here who have been truly worried about Bono even more worried. Instead of throwing dirt at someone just because we may not agree with some of his methods we should keep the faith and stay confident that everything possible was done to prevent Bono from having further damage and that he will recover and come back.

I respectfully disagree. It didn't work. He sent him to the surgeon, as he was really close to being the one who Paralyzed Bono ! Incident, is not really the right word. You said it yourself, he has beeen dealing with this for years . Any imaging prior to the incident, would have clearly shown the high risk of this happening . Jumping on the stage would have been enough to cause it. Picking up a child could have done it. Slipping ones footing would have caused it. The Drs treatment delayed the certain. Risk/reward, quality is the equation. Not playing a "Football Game " U2's World Cup comes when they decide. A Football players World cup comes when they are going thru the brackets. You would treat these two "players" differently. That's my point. There would be a circumstance to mask a problem with a football player. I can't think of a single reason to mask a problem for a performer. They can always reschedule the "game/show. " The Edge said it himself in the Skype call. " Bono has a tendency to cut corners for his health,... we will all be there to make sure he doesn't do it again and does it right .. we will sit on him to make him do so"

This Dr's treatments were not working, or this would not have happened. He allowed it to go too long. Has nothing to do with stupid. He certainly is not. Sticking with someone like that is a different set of mind. False hope. whatever you want to call it.


It wouldn't be the first time in Modern medicine, and unfortunately it won't be the last. Used to call them snake oil salesman.

I am sure he is up and doing light PT. I am sure based on The Edge's video, they will make sure he does it right, and complete the whole treatment.

Nice to have good, smart friends. He will feel better than he has in a long time, if he listens to the right people, and follows it through.

 

[VintagePunk]

Benji, I appreciate that you care for Bono so much, still I think it's not up to us to make any judgement about his health issues and how they were treated and how they could have been treated, simply because we don't know anything, we can only speculate. Medical issues are a very private thing and I'm sure Bono never wanted anything to be made public. I'm sure he got all the help he needed through the years and he's smart enough to make the right choices when it comes to personal issues, that not only affect him but also his family and the band. But some things cannot be anticipated and do happen, it's unfortunate that something like that happened to him at this point.

And you always talk about the two shows you saw. I can tell you that I saw some shows of the tour and Bono seemed fine, and the majority of people here on the forum who went to shows also didn't say anything about Bono in pain. Now, It's good you're caring about him, but it could have been anything, not necessarily his back. I think we're just speculating at this point. He did a monster tour in 360 and he seemed to be in very good condition most of the time, you don't move like that on stage if you're having back pain. Of course, knowing his ongoing problems, it might have caused him pain now and then, but I don't think we should be over-dramatizing things here. I think he was pretty fine and got some good treatment. His back condition seemed to be worse during the Vertigo tour and he even admitted so in several interviews around that time.

Instead of blaming the Dr. that has been treating him (and many other people ... successfully) for any possible failures or trying to discredit his methods we should have some trust in Bono's decisions and remain confident that he's getting better now. I'm sure he has been - and still is - in great hands. German fans and media who know a bit about this particular Dr. have said he has the best medical team possible.

Bono and Larry are laypeople, without a background in medicine. They're probably going to this doctor on the recommendation of other people. Two things that we know are facts - this doctor uses unusual treatments, and, he hasn't published any studies. If you know anything about the field of medical research, this is more than enough to raise some pretty major red flags. Couple with that the fact that there has been anecdotal evidence of people having less than stellar results with this form of treatment, then yes, it does raise a lot of questions.

I'm not saying Bono is to blame. Neither is the organization. Perhaps they just don't have the expertise. It's enough to make me wonder, though. It's not good enough to just "have faith" in any quack treatment that presents itself.

 

[Benji2112]

Benji, I appreciate that you care for Bono so much, still I think it's not up to us to make any judgement about his health issues and how they were treated and how they could have been treated, simply because we don't know anything, we can only speculate. Medical issues are a very private thing and I'm sure Bono never wanted anything to be made public. I'm sure he got all the help he needed through the years and he's smart enough to make the right choices when it comes to personal issues, that not only affect him but also his family and the band. But some things cannot be anticipated and do happen, it's unfortunate that something like that happened to him at this point.

And you always talk about the two shows you saw. I can tell you that I saw some shows of the tour and Bono seemed fine, and the majority of people here on the forum who went to shows also didn't say anything about Bono in pain. Now, It's good you're caring about him, but it could have been anything, not necessarily his back. I think we're just speculating at this point. He did a monster tour in 360 and he seemed to be in very good condition most of the time, you don't move like that on stage if you're having back pain. Of course, knowing his ongoing problems, it might have caused him pain now and then, but I don't think we should be over-dramatizing things here. I think he was pretty fine and got some good treatment. His back condition seemed to be worse during the Vertigo tour and he even admitted so in several interviews around that time.

Instead of blaming the Dr. that has been treating him (and many other people ... successfully) for any possible failures or trying to discredit his methods we should have some trust in Bono's decisions and remain confident that he's getting better now. I'm sure he has been - and still is - in great hands. German fans and media who know a bit about this particular Dr. have said he has the best medical team possible.

When you get to the point where this happens, it is actually a pretty set map. There is a pre-existing condition, (there was) and besides being in a sudden car accident for instance, the path is set , using your point of reference, the Vertigo tour ( which I saw ) this started way back then. Most likely before.

Yes he could jump around on a stage.. Numbing agents, Opiates etc etc, would have masked early symptoms. Once these start, 80 % of the time they get worse, not better. Especially with age. , the path begins to worsen.

I am not talking voodoo medicine. I see this all the time. I have personally experienced it when I had a car accident, and had the same problem, except with me, it was C-spine.

There is a reason we have people do things on a PEH , like walk, raise arms, turning head etc. It one way we see where the problem is. We have scales and rate these movements. One of the biggest ones for his type of injury, is when they grab the left leg below the hip, toward the back. Classic sign. Watch the video's , you can see him doing it, constantly. So, considering where it is, the "speculation" was right.

I am also sure the german people LOVE this guy. If player X tears something , and the guy selling Apple wine has a way to get a player on the field, hell yes they would love him. I wonder though, do they see this guy at 40, with his knee's at the point of replacement? Do they care? I lived there, I know what they say about it. Just having X play, that's the motivation.

It is why I have said time andtime again, you would not treat a peformer like Bono the same as you would a Football player. Apples and oranges.

These types of injuries, are in many instances, are of a natural origin in nature. Everyone has spondylosis, or some degeneration . Over half of the people on this site over 30 will have some degree of this. Over 40 the number is higher. There are 1,000's and 1,000's of long term studies on this. 1,000's It is not voodo and I find it odd that a Dr who's claim to fame is pumping the roids to the German National team in the 70's , using chemical versions of HGH, made from Calves blood etc, is the right one, and NOBODY in the rest of the world does. If it worked, we would do it. All of us. 30 years after the roid fad, look at what is happening to the ones who were subjects. None of it is good, and neither are those using HGH , etc. They are dying left and right.

I asked before, I challenge anyone to find 10, just 10 reputable papers on this guys treatment. Not quotes from football players who have no idea what he is doing . Show me the medical world who sanctions this treatment, through peer reviewed published papers that explains what he does, and through clinical and controlled studies that what he says works. You will not find a single one. In 30 years, when usually there would be 1,000's of studies of his methods, you won't find one. That is extremely rare. Billion to one . There is a reason he won't say. Can expand that to papers showing how effective shooting Calves blood, or rooster heads in large quantities is effective. You won't. Calves blood you will find one . It will surprise you what it is, and while it would be good for football players, or Tour de France riders, you will see it is only good for them because it is a Performance enhancing drug that they have no test for yet. It is still a Banned practice in those sports.

It is a large strectch to say this Dr's treatment has now fixed Bono. It is a bullseye that the Surgery did.

What we do is not experimental. it has been proven over and over and over again . His....... not once.

You know, people have died from this treatment of his . I am approx 1,300 plus to zero that have had died from any form of this treatment. It is because of years of study , sharing, peer review , etc.

Can you show me anything remotely that backs this Drs claims? No, even though both have been practiced for the same time period . approx 40 years . That is a major flag right there . If it were that good, better, or worked, we all would be doing it. Dr's don't hide their discoveries, or procedures. If they do, red flag number 2. Alot of flags with this guys. many flags

Please know I am not arguing with you . I respectfully disagree, strongly, with this guys theory of treatment. We talk about cases that interest us, and obviously as fans, we have this one. Bono, you, me, everyone can chose what we do to their bodies.

Nothing he did fixed him. He may think so and believe it, and that's his choice. What "fixed him was the surgery, something that after all he has tried, he might have considered it much ealier. We shall see when he gets back .

A little history of what ended up being the right treatment. Just if anyone is interested. http://www.neurosurgical.com/neuro_medical_info/major_procedures/lumbar_fusion.htm
http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/sex/secret-signals-men-give-when-they-lie-1471947/
I would love to see some Dr Muller papers. we have a great data base, and can find only one specifically linked to him, but it was written by others, and he attached his name. Red Flag number 4

The good news is because of the surgery, Bono is going to feel much much better... If they sit on him to follow up with the PT. I would imagine this freaked him some in the sense someone as active as him, losing the ability to walk is probably no high on his list of things to be.

Just a discussion ok? I respect everyones views, thoughts, etc.

Sent by IPhone

 

[Benji2112]

bono and larry are laypeople, without a background in medicine. They're probably going to this doctor on the recommendation of other people. Two things that we know are facts - this doctor uses unusual treatments, and, he hasn't published any studies. If you know anything about the field of medical research, this is more than enough to raise some pretty major red flags. Couple with that the fact that there has been anecdotal evidence of people having less than stellar results with this form of treatment, then yes, it does raise a lot of questions.

I'm not saying bono is to blame. Neither is the organization. Perhaps they just don't have the expertise. It's enough to make me wonder, though. It's not good enough to just "have faith" in any quack treatment that presents itself.

+ 1

 

[Benji2112]

Benji, I concur with what you're saying. I have had Fibromyalgia for 13 years. Now, it's not nearly as devastating as the back injury Bono suffered, but I know firsthand how tempting it is to try anything to get rid of pain.
For 13 years I have been inundated with total strangers telling me of this or that 'cure'. I lost my career, my means to a decent life, and will have pain and debilitating fatigue forever. Do these strangers tempt me? No. Thankfully, I've been a science geek since grade school! I know about the scientific method and the importance of peer reviewed journals. Sadly, most people aren't that interested in science, so it's not uncommon for folks to not have a clue what the doctor just injected. Good or bad, most people go by someone's recommendation, an advertisement, or what the local doctor suggested, simply because they don't know enough.

We have a glut of information available to us these days. It takes but a moment to google "herniated disk", but there are dozens of iffy sites right alongside good ones. How is someone to know which is which?

Larry had been going to this doctor for years, getting the injections and subsequently feeling well enough to drum. Yes, the placebo effect was most likely the reason, but he didn't know that, any more than I'd know which drum to hit when in a given song.
I feel really badly that Bono is going through this. I also feel he is in no way responsible for making a questionable choice. He has minders, people who are in charge of seeing that the band is in shape for the tour. He is known to listen to such people, so THEY should have caught this early on, when Larry was first going to him. The band have enough on their plate. They do the best they can with what they know. I only pray that he heals completely and finds legitimate help along the way.

I have had Fibromyalgia for 13 years. Now, it's not nearly as devastating as the back injury Bono suffered, but I know firsthand how tempting it is to try anything to get rid of pain.
For 13 years I have been inundated with total strangers telling me of this or that 'cure'. I lost my career, my means to a decent life, and will have pain and debilitating fatigue forever.

I am sorry you have to deal with that horrible disease. I am sure you know , for many years, nobody would even understand how debilitating it is , let alone acknowledge it was real. As you know and I know, it is both .

We are still learning a lot about it, but know it is real. Finally, after years of study , more and more Dr's at the GP level have no choice but to acknowledge it. It is real to them today, where as even 5-7 years ago, they would say " it's in your head" . I hate those words.

Be it an auto-immune disease( less likely ) or a Neurological disease ( most likely) it is now accepted as the serious condidtion that it is. Something causes the "pain signals" to go haywire and the bodies natural "turn off signal to the pain waves get lost.

The good news is that they are understanding it more everyday . This is because of the huge number of people interested in the subject, be it by having it, or studying it, often both have many, many studies of who, what, where, and how.

One of the leading causes they have pinpointed is a Cervical spine trauma . I know, I had one . Eventually I had the surgery, but couldn't understand the extreme pain I had in what we now call the trigger or diagnostic points Extreme pain as you know.

Thankfully, people got on it, and even the insurance comapanies accept the diagnosis.

This is a good example to my point. It has gone to no research, or very little, to massive research, and we are zeroing in on the issue. Pain signals gone wild to keep it simple.

Lycra, I have never tried, and even other Drs I know who have it , never took Lycra more than twice. Most had serious issues.

I have a sugestion to try if you have not all ready. It is what we do. Ask your Dr to let you try low does Xanax treatment. >0.5 mg x2 or x3 a day .

Keep taking it on schedule , every 8 hours. It will make you a little sleepy for the First day or 2 ( something that those who have Fibro desperately need !) If he lets you try this , this very low dose will allow you to function normally, no haze or anything like that, and you can drive etc etc safely and go about your daily life . The dose is so low, the concern many would have is a dependance, and a good Dr would understand that this is, in most people rare. >.05 is a very low dose , but you would still be monitored JIC.
Of the many I know(Drs) who do this for themselves in some cases ,use it for many patients it would be very rare that one would become dependant . By that I mean Physically . The relief and ability to return to a "normal" life far outweighs the remote possiblity.

Don't do it on you own, but it is something to speak to your Dr about . It works for many and many studies are being done on this. They will try to get you on Lycra( Pharm Reps make the big bucks on it ) but I can send you some material that your Dr can read, or he can look it up. No Dr I know will take lycra for their Fibro, and they all use the low does Xanax.

Something to talk to them about , and it works for most people . Just a thought. Ask and talk to your Dr about it . It is a debilitating disease. For such low risk and high reward, it is worth it to ask about it .He knows your situation, and can best understand your pain.

This not medical advice, but based on my own personal experience with Fibro, this is something that many are turning to , and studying extensively. It is approved for treatment of Fibro .

It would be a good question or subject to ask . Not sure if you and your Dr have tried it, so I mention it in case he /she would agree this could work for you .

Fibro is NO fun.

Hang in there ....Thanks for you great post also. I agree with it .

 

[mama cass]

Two things that we know are facts - this doctor uses unusual treatments, and, he hasn't published any studies. If you know anything about the field of medical research, this is more than enough to raise some pretty major red flags.

ok i've deleted the rest of my post - don't wanna be causing trouble - it was just speculation anyway

 

[last unicorn]

Bono and Larry are laypeople, without a background in medicine. They're probably going to this doctor on the recommendation of other people. Two things that we know are facts - this doctor uses unusual treatments, and, he hasn't published any studies. If you know anything about the field of medical research, this is more than enough to raise some pretty major red flags. Couple with that the fact that there has been anecdotal evidence of people having less than stellar results with this form of treatment, then yes, it does raise a lot of questions.

I'm not saying Bono is to blame. Neither is the organization. Perhaps they just don't have the expertise. It's enough to make me wonder, though. It's not good enough to just "have faith" in any quack treatment that presents itself.

Well the Dr. has a pretty good reputation in his field and he treated a lot of people, including famous athletes, with success. There will always be people who don't respond to a certain way of treatment while others do, it's like that everywhere in medicine. If Bono and Larry respond to the treatment and it makes them feel better, I don't see why they shouldn't stick to these specific methods of therapy. I'm sure Bono wouldn't have consulted that doctor for so many years if he didn't feel the therapy would help him. Even if he has no medical "history" himself (which, btw, we don't know because it's a private issue), I'm sure there are more than enough people who helped him out with advice. The man knows thousands of people from all kinds of backgrounds, so I'm sure he would get some pretty good advice from a lot of people who may deal with similar problems. If the surgery and therapy really are a success will be seen in the near future. It mostly depends on Bono himself. There's no guarantee that a certain treatment really helps a person, no matter which doctor he's going to, there will always be the chance that his condition will be getting worse again.

So yes, having faith and hoping for a positive outcome is the only thing we can do right now.

 

[A stor]

Benj......thank you for all of the medical information.

When, I injured my back. I was in some serious pain, even though it was mostly a soft tissue injury. My disc had not deteriorated. Imaging showed this. My doctor did not inject anything into my back. It was bed rest, then light physical therapy. It took almost four months for my recovery. And I haven't injured it again.

The back strengthening exercise, I still do to this day, is wonderful. I also, sleep on the floor with light padding. My physical therapist said that this is the best thing you can do for your back. And I don't wear high heals. (I am a woman). Flat heals or good running shoes are what I always wear outside. Indoors, I am bare footed. I am aware of my posture and never lift anything heavy.

I'm not a doctor. But, some simple lifestyle changes help me to keep my back strong and for the most part, pain free.

 

[Benji2112]

Benj......thank you for all of the medical information.

When, I injured my back. I was in some serious pain, even though it was mostly a soft tissue injury. My disc had not deteriorated. Imaging showed this. My doctor did not inject anything into my back. It was bed rest, then light physical therapy. It took almost four months for my recovery. And I haven't injured it again.

The back strengthening exercise, I still do to this day, is wonderful. I also, sleep on the floor with light padding. My physical therapist said that this is the best thing you can do for your back. And I don't wear high heals. (I am a woman). Flat heals or good running shoes are what I always wear outside. Indoors, I am bare footed. I am aware of my posture and never lift anything heavy.

I'm not a doctor. But, some simple lifestyle changes help me to keep my back strong and for the most part, pain free.

I am very happy when I hear these types of recovery. It is the absolutely the right thing to do at early stage Lumbar, Throacic or Cervical spine problems. Exercise therapy , even in healthy people will go a long way as a preventitive action to spinal probelms, which naturally occur as we age .

It is the right thing to do, and most of the time, it works. You have a good therapist ( some of these "chain " PT places are a joke ) and the good ones , along with commitment of the patient , can in many cases, solve the issue. We love to hear those words as a result of a good therapist and a good patient .." pain free" !

I am certain our friend was way beyond that point . The very last thing even we want to see ( it is true that the majority of Surgeons will do everything to avoid a surgical procedure) but between Vertigo and today, is a long time in an active person,with his type of body , which adds "stress" and more pressure on the lower/Lumbar section of his back. They should have seen it worsening ( maybe they did) and if he also was religiously doing his therapy , all the time, it was past time to consider the surgery. You can see the deterioration , the disk etc etc via the scans. Based on the scans, there would have been a time before the recent event, you would have sat them down and said " we need to stabilize this. " Maybe they did, but it never should have come to the point where exercise would cause such a traumatic event. It would have been obvious where this was going long before it happened.

The thing that shocks me is that I know that All concert Tours are insured , and part of that would be the complete PHE of all the band members. They have very extensive examinations. Somebody let it go.

I am glad you are pain free.! That is a good place to be, and it shows that commitment of the patient, and a good therapist, goes a long way toward preventing further problems. All these issues start that way,besides accidents, and good intervention can eliminate the chances of further problems in the future.

 

[Benji2112]

Well the Dr. has a pretty good reputation in his field and he treated a lot of people, including famous athletes, with success. There will always be people who don't respond to a certain way of treatment while others do, it's like that everywhere in medicine. If Bono and Larry respond to the treatment and it makes them feel better, I don't see why they shouldn't stick to these specific methods of therapy. I'm sure Bono wouldn't have consulted that doctor for so many years if he didn't feel the therapy would help him. Even if he has no medical "history" himself (which, btw, we don't know because it's a private issue), I'm sure there are more than enough people who helped him out with advice. The man knows thousands of people from all kinds of backgrounds, so I'm sure he would get some pretty good advice from a lot of people who may deal with similar problems. If the surgery and therapy really are a success will be seen in the near future. It mostly depends on Bono himself. There's no guarantee that a certain treatment really helps a person, no matter which doctor he's going to, there will always be the chance that his condition will be getting worse again.

So yes, having faith and hoping for a positive outcome is the only thing we can do right now.

"So yes, having faith and hoping for a positive outcome is the only thing we can do right now"

Yes, hope that he doesn't take shortcuts as he is prone to do . See The Edge Video.

" the Dr. has a pretty good reputation in his field and he treated a lot of people, including famous athletes, with success."

I am looking for proof of this success. The althletes say so, but if you read many of the statements, you will see a common theme. Lets use a groin injury as an example. One famous player cited in this thread, who had a groin injury, credited not the Dr , whom he has been seeing for a while for his injury, said " It was not Dr Muller who "fixed the problem, it was a Female associate who finally intervened and did a surgical repair of his groin injury. " 2 types of treatment for a groin injury/tear. Rest is the first option, surgical is the second. The time frame for either is consistent . Even he said, had the associate not intervened, he would have gone way longer out had she not done so. There is no evidence that these treatments fixed the problem, or made recovery faster. None.

He has also been long suspected of being a doping Doc. Even admitted it one time.

Real Drs don't work out of Hotel rooms .

Recent story in Miami. They arrested a Female plastic surgeon and her husband that was seen by 100's of "well healed" ( meaning wealthy ) women, for everything from full face lifts , breast augmentation, Liposuction, and serious rescontructive surgery . The neighbors couldn't figure out why all these Rolls, Mercedes etc were parked outside this residential house . All the time.

This was discovered when these women began appearing at emergency rooms, with severe infection, including staph , and other serious and life threatening issues.Many were maimed.

When the police raided the house , they discovered they had used their gagrage, which had lawn mowers, garden tools, chemicals, and their trash . Normal garage stuff. What it also had a was hardware store operating rooms, which used vacum cleaners as suctions devices, a picnic table as an operating table, and other crude versions of surgical suite equipement, and regular home depot tools as surgical instruments ! All the tissue and such was put in a large garbage can . The neighbors finally could smell it , and reported it to police.

One would wonder why on earth would theses monied woman not think something was odd, walking into and consenting surgery in someone's garage . When asked ( those who could answer) All of them said the same thing .

1) they heard by word of mouth that this "Dr" had a good reputation and could promote faster healing. She was rumored to have "heavenly technics" .

2) they could save money buy using them. Remember, all these women had tons of Money

The garage should have been the first clue. Garbage cans full of tissue with flies and their larvae in them, might have been a second . Smell would be another.

So some variation of the "quick fix" applied . These woman who survived, are disfigured for life. It happens more often than you think.

Turns out, you know what kind of Dr she was? A Dentist.

Because a bunch of football players "feel" that they return faster after the accupunture ( which is what he does) does not make him respected. If they, Bono, or whoever want to go, have at it. Part B of his treatment is the dangerous part. What is he injecting them with? What are the long term effects? Most football players dont even think about long term. Teams encourage this as the career span is short. If they thought doing the Hokey Pokey naked at midfield worked, they would do it without hesitation.

A Medical Dr who is doing alternative therapies gains respect from publishing his work, and results for peer review .What is the result using his treatment, vs conventional. What are the results of his magic shots vs plain rest? What are the long term, maybe even short term risks or affects of the Calves Blood and Rooster head stew vs nothing. These are important questions

Good ones are more than happy to do this , have their work challanged if warranted , or studied if it is good. It is a HUGE red flag, to have someone doing PED's HGH and things like that for over 30 years, and never have published One single paper . Not one. The usual reason a Dr doing an alternative therapy , who never presents his work, comes down to one or 2 single reasons. Neither of them would be condusive to attracting more patients . Or keeping the ones he has.

I am just interested in this because it is so bizzare . Anyone can see anyone they want, that's their deal. It's their life. From a Professional view it is shocking what we have read about this guy . I spoke to a collegue in Frankfurt, and they don't respect him at all . Quite the opposite.

But I am open to seeing any papers on his treatments , and their efficacy. If you can find something other than a football players statement ( which I have read many ) as the injuries they describe, the recovery time is almost the same with or without the treatments.

If this Dr is doing something that helps people, I would love to study it. Maybe it would be a quick fix for my practice. We could sure use it at the Trauma center ... if it works .

It is so unusual for someone to be claiming his great treatments for 30 years, yet , not a single paper or study. Extremely rare. After 30 years, one like him should have the high hundreds. Plus studies on his studies by others.

There is a reason he doesn't. It's not a good one.

I look at it this way. If I had a friend on heroin,or some other dangerous behavior I would sit him down and in a kind way present why this isnt a good thing . Hopefully a message is learned , but it is ones choice, and I respect that.

Professionally, I have a hard time jumping on "this Dr is God" bandwagon. It has zero basis in fact .

This is my opinion, and being that this is a discussion board , that's what I am doing. Everyone is different, but there are many certainties is this type of injury especially when this incident happens. What someone had for dinner, I would have no idea.

Without doubt,(if the surgery was successful) he is up walking and taking PT. That is a very good thing, and he will fell better, and more confident in his movements.

He dodged a bullet.

 

[Marien]

I tried to read a few pages in this thread, but I got sick.
What's the use of all this especulation? I don't think Bono is being respected much here, not to talk about his doctor, I really, really doubt any doctor or nurse or any other professional related to medicine would speak in the terms it is being done here. Benji, have you thought about what you are doing? I'm sorry to say I don't think it is very proper and you are alarming many people.

 

[last unicorn]

^ Yeah, especially considering someone only started posting in this forum to write all of this. Seriously, I tried to keep up with it but I can't. It's recycling the same stuff over and over again. I feel bad talking about Bono's private medical issues and I think we should respect the man and his decisions. It's ok to be worried and only wish the best possible treatment for him, but I think the discussion has gone into a direction that is simply not okay anymore, in fact it makes me feel uncomfortable. I doubt Bono or the family or band would want such things to be discussed publicly, especially if so much speculation is involved and there seems to be a real agenda by some people against certain members of his medical team.

 

[coolian2]

I tried to read a few pages in this thread, but I got sick.

well there's enough doctors here to diagnose you apparently.

 

[the tourist]

 

[Benji2112]

I tried to read a few pages in this thread, but I got sick.
What's the use of all this especulation? I don't think Bono is being respected much here, not to talk about his doctor, I really, really doubt any doctor or nurse or any other professional related to medicine would speak in the terms it is being done here. Benji, have you thought about what you are doing? I'm sorry to say I don't think it is very proper and you are alarming many people.

Alarming people about a Dr? Not so. I never said anything about Bono besides his injury. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the title of the thread Bono under goes emergency surgery? .

I am refering to the Dr's record. He doesn't have one.

People look at the work of others all the time. It's called peer review. It's normal.

people long before me were discussing Bono under goes emergency surgery. So it's not proper? 2 sides to every discussion, or is it something different ? Many say he is the greatest, which I will respect their opinion. I say that is not what his records says, which is the other side to that disscussion. Where I come from, that is what discussion is . It's healthy discourse .
Or, is it proper to just accept a single persons point of view? I missed that debate class I guess.

 

[Salome]

People look at the work of others all the time. It's called peer review. It's normal.

even suggesting a similarity between what you're doing and peer review is ridiculous
you're just playing judge & jury based on google

 

[Benji2112]

Rheumatoid arthritis 1.3 million have it in the USA alone .

Spinal cord injuries -250,000-400,000 estimated in the USA alone

Knee injuries - millions

Muscle pulls and tears. Millions more

This guy claims to be able to cure all of them with his therapy. His proof, in his own words" I don't need to have proof" I know it works. That's it.

Being that U2, Bono , give so much time to helping those in need, you'd think he would tell this Dr to share it with those that suffer. Doesn't have to , but it would help millions .

But the Dr cant share . I wonder why?

YouTube - Sporting Hero - Germany In his own words . Notice that they say he looks 40 . Look at his hands and then the face, and you will see something other than his treatments account for the youthfull looks. In Florida, we call it Face lift

It's on Youtube so it must be true

 

[Benji2112]

even suggesting a similarity between what you're doing and peer review is ridiculous
you're just playing judge & jury based on google

are you assuming? Peer reviews are used to rate or debunk treatment option(s) . A form of House would be more accurate than google. I am not sure I see where your anger is coming from. I have an idea, but not sure.

Judge and Jury? No, and I am not sure who is on trial. The subject came up here, in this thread, and I am looking at it, as are zillions of people around the world . A lot of people are talking about it. Fans, medical, people with back problems , People magazine, Bars of S Beach. you name it. Yet, your anger is that is is being discussed on a U2 forum, in a thread about Bono's surgery?

I would like to say I don't understand it , but I do.

Personally, I hope the band, and the individuals be around for a long time .

peace , man

 

[Salome]

believe me, I've been at this forum long enough not to waste any anger on it
I just intended to point out that a peer review is based on a lot more than what you base your tirades on

 

[Benji2112]

believe me, I've been at this forum long enough not to waste any anger on it
I just intended to point out that a peer review is based on a lot more than what you base your tirades on

I know what it is.

I am not on a tirade. I am just shocked at the methods, and claims this Dr's makes. Period . I see every day how messed up people can get, based on an ego, of false promises made to those who suffer from spinal injuries . An 18 year old who will forever be in a motorized chair, moving only by his mouth really bugs me . Especially when it was caused by an egotistical Dr or one beyond his skill, but will never admit it. False promises are the worst.

It is more common then you think.

It hurts people. I am blessed with a sense of compassion. I will never lose that.

 

[VintagePunk]

even suggesting a similarity between what you're doing and peer review is ridiculous
you're just playing judge & jury based on google

believe me, I've been at this forum long enough not to waste any anger on it
I just intended to point out that a peer review is based on a lot more than what you base your tirades on

I think you may be misunderstanding him...? My apologies if I've read it wrong, though.

He's not saying that his posts amount to a peer review. The problem he's pointing out is that the doctor's methods have NOT been peer reviewed. This involves rigorous testing of his treatment methods, and then writing a scientific article to be submitted in a medical journal. Where the "peer-review" comes in is that the editors of the journal will go over his article with a fine-tooth comb, to see if his testing methods merit the article being published. If the article passes this test, then it is eventually published, and other professionals can read the paper, evaluate it, and attempt to replicate his results. This is a normal and appropriate level of scrutiny that virtually every medical treatment goes through. That this doctor has made this (according to him) miraculous treatment discovery, and yet will not take these steps to 1) put it under scrutiny; and 2) share it with the rest of the worldwide medical community is very, very problematic, and as I said earlier, raises a lot of red flags. The way he's chosen to do things is very unusual, and makes it seem highly suspicious.

And I might add that his treatments obviously didn't work for Bono, ultimately. The thing that will fix Bono is the surgery he has undergone, done by another doctor.

 

[corianderstem]

Oh, I'm confused - I thought the doctor who did the surgery is the person Benji is talking about in this thread?

 

[VintagePunk]

No, he's talking about the Dr. who injects calfs' blood and other odd things into people. The actual surgery was done by another doctor, a neurologist. Sorry, I can't remember their names offhand, but they were stated in several articles.

eta - here's the article from U2.com. Dr Muller Wohlfahrt is the shifty doctor, the surgeon is Professor Tonn

Bono has now been discharged from Ludwig Maximilians-University (LMU) Hospital in Munich where he underwent emergency surgery on Friday, following a back injury. In order to fully recover, he is under doctor's orders to start a rehabilitation program and to recuperate for at least eight weeks.

Dr Muller Wohlfahrt confirmed, 'Bono suffered severe compression of the sciatic nerve. On review of his MRI scan, I realized there was a serious tear in the ligament and a herniated disc, and that conservative treatment would not suffice. I recommended Bono have emergency spine surgery with Professor Tonn at Munich's LMU University Hospital on Friday.'

Professor Tonn, who carried out the operation, added, 'Bono was referred to me by Dr Muller Wohlfahrt late last week with a sudden onset disease. He was already in severe pain with partial paralysis in the lower leg. The ligament surrounding the disc had an 8mm tear and during surgery we discovered fragments of the disc had traveled into the spinal canal. This surgery was the only course of treatment for full recovery and to avoid further paralysis. Bono is now much better, with complete recovery of his motor deficit. The prognosis is excellent but to obtain a sustainable result, he must now enter a period of rehabilitation'.

Dr Muller Wohlfahrt continued, 'We are treating Bono as we would treat any of our athletes and while the surgery has gone very well, the coming weeks are crucial for a return to full health. In the next days, he will start a light rehabilitation program, with increasing intensity over the next 8 weeks. In our experience, this is the minimum time.'

 

[corianderstem]

Ohhhh! Okay, thank you. I was feeling a little antsy, reading this and thinking it was about some experimental surgery or something. I was all "OMG BONO, WHAT DID THEY DO TO YOU???"

 

[VintagePunk]

Ohhhh! Okay, thank you. I was feeling a little antsy, reading this and thinking it was about some experimental surgery or something. I was all "OMG BONO, WHAT DID THEY DO TO YOU???"

No, he's in good hands, now.

I know a lot of people's eyes glaze over when they start reading in depth medical, researchy type of things, but from my years of being familiar with research methods, I know what Benji is saying is accurate.

I'm not saying 100% for sure that this Dr. M-W is a quack, or dangerous, it's always possible that his treatments do work, at least for some. But to have not gone the usual test - publish - retest route seems highly suspicious.

As well, his treatments may have delayed the inevitable for Bono, or at worst, kept Bono from seeking more traditional treatments, and putting him into what could have been a dangerous situation with having fragments of the disc go into the spinal canal.

 

[A stor]

No, he's in good hands, now.

I know a lot of people's eyes glaze over when they start reading in depth medical, researchy type of things, but from my years of being familiar with research methods, I know what Benji is saying is accurate.

I'm not saying 100% for sure that this Dr. M-W is a quack, or dangerous, it's always possible that his treatments do work, at least for some. But to have not gone the usual test - publish - retest route seems highly suspicious.

As well, his treatments may have delayed the inevitable for Bono, or at worst, kept Bono from seeking more traditional treatments, and putting him into what could have been a dangerous situation with having fragments of the disc go into the spinal canal.

I agree, Bono's lumbar disc. Didn't crumble/fracture over night. It just isn't possible. It takes repeated injury and years for this to happen.

I appreciate all of the medical advise and research that Benj has shared with us. It certainly has helped me, quite a bit.

I had never heard of anyone having injected into their spine/back. Animal blood, steroids, roaster head stew? WTF?

Being 53 years old, all of my contemporaries have back issues. Mostly aches and stiffness, mild Sciatica flare ups that heal just fine, with a day or two of rest. As, I have said. I am not a doctor. But, there is no way on God's green earth. That I would allow this procedure to ever be done to me. I could be wrong, but I don't think this is a practice that is allowed in the United States.

When, I injured my back in a Black Belt Martial Arts class. Due to being thrown down of a mat. (I was forty years old at the time.) I had a very small tear in my ligament, bulging disc and compressed Sciatic Nerve. The first thing that my doctor did after he examined me. Was to order a full set of x-rays. He wanted to make sure that my vertabre was not collapsing. And that my lumbar disc was still in good shape. Imaging proved this to be true. So conventional treatment was followed. Surgery is never the first option. But, there are times when it is the only thing to be done, in order to restore health to the patient.

I hope. I never have to go down that road. Though, if I do. I will make sure that I see a qualified surgeon and not some DR. Feel Good who wants to experiment on me. No thanks! My quality of life is too important. Plus, I love swimming with my grand daughter.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

No, he's talking about the Dr. who injects calfs' blood and other odd things into people. The actual surgery was done by another doctor, a neurologist. Sorry, I can't remember their names offhand, but they were stated in several articles.

eta - here's the article from U2.com. Dr Muller Wohlfahrt is the shifty doctor, the surgeon is Professor Tonn

ohhhh, i was thinking the same thing cori did. and maybe it's just me, but the thought of getting blood injected in me creeps me the fuck out.

 

[Benji2112]

Oh, I'm confused - I thought the doctor who did the surgery is the person Benji is talking about in this thread?

no, he( The Neurosurgeon ) is excellent. It's the other one , the accupunture, cure for everything guy .