17 year anniversary - Fuck The Revolution

[Party Boy]

hey all, read a small article about Enniskillen bombing the other day and it reminded me of Rattle & Hum and Bono's "Fuck The Revolution" rant during Joshua Tree tour...

Where ha e 17 years gone??

Nearly sure the bombing was 9th November, so 17 years ago yesterday...

 

[wolfeden]

8th November 1987

where's the time gone.....

 

[Axver]

Tell it like it is, Bono ...

Yeah! Yeah! Well let me tell you something. I've had enough of Irish-Americans who haven't been back to their country in twenty or thirty years come up to me and talk to me about the Resistance, the Revolution back home, and the glory of the Revolution, and the glory of dying for the Revolution.

FUCK THE REVOLUTION!

They don't talk about the glory of killing for the Revolution. What's the glory in taking a man from his bed and gunning him down in front of his wife and his children? Where's the glory in that? Where's the glory in bombing a Remembrance Day parade of old age pensioners, their medals taken out and polished up for the day, where's the glory in that? ... to leave them dying, or crippled for life, or dead ... under the rubble of the Revolution ... that the majority of the people of my country don't want.

 

[GibsonGirl]

Yeah! Yeah! Well let me tell you something. I've had enough of Irish-Americans who haven't been back to their country in twenty or thirty years come up to me and talk to me about the Resistance, the Revolution back home, and the glory of the Revolution, and the glory of dying for the Revolution.

FUCK THE REVOLUTION!

They don't talk about the glory of killing for the Revolution. What's the glory in taking a man from his bed and gunning him down in front of his wife and his children? Where's the glory in that? Where's the glory in bombing a Remembrance Day parade of old age pensioners, their medals taken out and polished up for the day, where's the glory in that? ... to leave them dying, or crippled for life, or dead ... under the rubble of the Revolution ... that the majority of the people of my country don't want.

I know that off by heart. In fact, I rattled portions of it off to someone who said something war-related a little while ago. Stopped them in their tracks in a hurry.

 

[tiny dancer]

My favorite part of the movie.

 

[wolfeden]

I can truthfully say that it was a life-changing moment for me. Made me pull my head out of my Boston Irish arse and re-examine the stupidity I'd grown up around.

I was in high school when R&H came out. I can't imagine who I might be now if I hadn't seen it at that point, if they hadn't included it in the movie as Bono spoke of people "not understanding...how we were feeling that night.."

no sir. I didn't understand, true.. before.
and I still thank you for making me open my eyes, some 15-odd years later.

 

[Celticfc]

I can truthfully say that it was a life-changing moment for me. Made me pull my head out of my Boston Irish arse and re-examine the stupidity I'd grown up around.

I was in high school when R&H came out. I can't imagine who I might be now if I hadn't seen it at that point, if they hadn't included it in the movie as Bono spoke of people "not understanding...how we were feeling that night.."

no sir. I didn't understand, true.. before.
and I still thank you for making me open my eyes, some 15-odd years later.

open your eyes about what?

 

[wolfeden]

open your eyes about what?

Dunno if you're familiar with the "Boston Irish" culture but it's very heavily pro-IRA, pro-violence, pro-gunsandbombsandanythingelseittakestodrivethestinkingBritsouttaourcountry..

when you grow up around that, the reality of the situation becomes very distorted, warped, and you don't even realise it until someone slaps you awake.

for me, it took that moment of the movie to wake me up, stop believing the glory-tales we'd get fed in the neighborhood and go out and learn about it for myself.

For me, it ended up leading to minoring in Irish history in college, and wincing every time I look back at who I was back around 1986.

 

[UnforgettableLemon]

I get big fucking shivers every time I see this or hear it.

 

[Celticfc]

Dunno if you're familiar with the "Boston Irish" culture but it's very heavily pro-IRA, pro-violence, pro-gunsandbombsandanythingelseittakestodrivethestinkingBritsouttaourcountry..

when you grow up around that, the reality of the situation becomes very distorted, warped, and you don't even realise it until someone slaps you awake.

for me, it took that moment of the movie to wake me up, stop believing the glory-tales we'd get fed in the neighborhood and go out and learn about it for myself.

For me, it ended up leading to minoring in Irish history in college, and wincing every time I look back at who I was back around 1986.

I know what you are saying but the Brits have no right to be in Ireland. Have your views changed on that?

 

[U2Kitten]

Has it been that long

 

[madonna's child]

Bono is so passionate, it's almost scary. I love that version of SBS.

 

[explorer]

8th November 1987

where's the time gone.....

yup, its the 8th, i know that because thats my birthday. i turn three on that day in '87... where has the time gone?

 

[Laura M]

I know what you are saying but the Brits have no right to be in Ireland. Have your views changed on that?

I'm pretty sure you are from Belfast too because I think I've seen you posting here before. It's people with a view like yours is the reason we'll never really have any peace here.

wolfeden, when a family member of yours is shot in the head by the ruc with a plastic bullet and has part of their brain removed leaving them with epilepsy and a limp for the rest of their life, when another family member lived in more than 15 houses due to the troubles and is left with a scar on their head after a grown man chased her into a barbed wire fence and left death threats at their house, when you've lived in a country that you can't even go shopping in without having your bags searched (even when your a child) or being evacuated from a building due to a bomb scare ppl wouldn't be so pro-violence. I don't understand how people who haven't lived through that could even be so strongly for such a situation like that. (That's not directed at you, just folk in general who would have been pro-violence.)

 

[Party Boy]

I'm pretty sure you are from Belfast too because I think I've seen you posting here before. It's people with a view like yours is the reason we'll never really have any peace here.

wolfeden, when a family member of yours is shot in the head by the ruc with a plastic bullet and has part of their brain removed leaving them with epilepsy and a limp for the rest of their life, when another family member lived in more than 15 houses due to the troubles and is left with a scar on their head after a grown man chased her into a barbed wire fence and left death threats at their house, when you've lived in a country that you can't even go shopping in without having your bags searched (even when your a child) or being evacuated from a building due to a bomb scare ppl wouldn't be so pro-violence. I don't understand how people who haven't lived through that could even be so strongly for such a situation like that. (That's not directed at you, just folk in general who would have been pro-violence.)

Thats always been my arguement to anyone who from a distance can say something or someone is doing wrong. Until you are in the middle of a particular situation, whatever it is, it is too easy to judge people or to make a clear statement that something is right or wrong. Grew up in Kildare - far enough away from the troubles but not far enough to hear it or see it on TV every day. Had relatives killed while in Old IRA and when growing up, esp during H-Block Hunger strikes used to have a lot of conversations with school friends around the fact that if we had grown up in Belfast instead of Kildare, would we have become actively involved in republican movement. Vast majority of replies was that we would have.

 

[luvvinu2]

well I do live in Belfast from the troubles started right up until now... and it scares me party boy that you would have joined the IRA. I abhorr violence and it is not the answer to sorting things out, I have had friends killed seen my city blown to bits seen the innocent victims suffer and everyones death counted as a terrible thing to me, hatred breeds hatred

you wouldnt believe the tears I shed for ALL those victims of the trouble here.. and what keeps it going is people won't let go of the past, they still churn up old hurts fron centuries ago and use it as an excuse to bomb maim or kill people

I learned a long time ago to not take sides to not hate anyone because they are british or irish or catholic or protestant.. because in the end we are all humans and no one has any right to take anyone else life for what they claim is a noble cause, when its really a dirty war where innocent people on both sides suffer Bono was asking us to rise above that stupid mental state of mind because he could see it wasn't worth it.. there is no glory in shedding innocent defenceless people's blood and too much of it has been spilled in this country.

Remember this little bit of green land will be here long after we are all dead that is all it is grass and fields and streets.. its certainly not worth dying over I put my fellow humans life of much more value than that or any flag or any country we all end up buried underneath the ground thats the only bit we can claim we own when all is said and done

there are more important things to worry about in life than the brits being in Ireland or the pope taking over ulster...this mentallity makes me ill

 

[Laura M]

well I do live in Belfast from the troubles started right up until now... and it scares me party boy that you would have joined the IRA. I abhorr violence and it is not the answer to sorting things out, I have had friends killed seen my city blown to bits seen the innocent victims suffer and everyones death counted as a terrible thing to me, hatred breeds hatred

you wouldnt believe the tears I shed for ALL those victims of the trouble here.. and what keeps it going is people won't let go of the past, they still churn up old hurts fron centuries ago and use it as an excuse to bomb maim or kill people

I learned a long time ago to not take sides to not hate anyone because they are british or irish or catholic or protestant.. because in the end we are all humans and no one has any right to take anyone else life for what they claim is a noble cause, when its really a dirty war where innocent people on both sides suffer Bono was asking us to rise above that stupid mental state of mind because he could see it wasn't worth it.. there is no glory in shedding innocent defenceless people's blood and too much of it has been spilled in this country.

Remember this little bit of green land will be here long after we are all dead that is all it is grass and fields and streets.. its certainly not worth dying over I put my fellow humans life of much more value than that or any flag or any country we all end up buried underneath the ground thats the only bit we can claim we own when all is said and done

there are more important things to worry about in life than the brits being in Ireland or the pope taking over ulster...this mentallity makes me ill

Party Boy. I am really disappointed when I see folk like celticfc just saying "yeah but the brits shouldn't be in ireland". That's the kind of attitude that gives people in other countries a bad view of Northern Ireland.

 

[ZeroDude]

Are there many of us here from Belfast? I'm too young to have witnesses alot of the troubles but still most people should realise it's never been a simple situation........

 

[Laura M]

There are!

I didn't know you were from belfast zerodude. Cloudimani and achtung_davy and maddie are from here but they never really post.

:Wave:

 

[Party Boy]

well I do live in Belfast from the troubles started right up until now... and it scares me party boy that you would have joined the IRA. I abhorr violence and it is not the answer to sorting things out, I have had friends killed seen my city blown to bits seen the innocent victims suffer and everyones death counted as a terrible thing to me, hatred breeds hatred

you wouldnt believe the tears I shed for ALL those victims of the trouble here.. and what keeps it going is people won't let go of the past, they still churn up old hurts fron centuries ago and use it as an excuse to bomb maim or kill people

I learned a long time ago to not take sides to not hate anyone because they are british or irish or catholic or protestant.. because in the end we are all humans and no one has any right to take anyone else life for what they claim is a noble cause, when its really a dirty war where innocent people on both sides suffer Bono was asking us to rise above that stupid mental state of mind because he could see it wasn't worth it.. there is no glory in shedding innocent defenceless people's blood and too much of it has been spilled in this country.

Remember this little bit of green land will be here long after we are all dead that is all it is grass and fields and streets.. its certainly not worth dying over I put my fellow humans life of much more value than that or any flag or any country we all end up buried underneath the ground thats the only bit we can claim we own when all is said and done

there are more important things to worry about in life than the brits being in Ireland or the pope taking over ulster...this mentallity makes me ill

I guess the point I wanted to make was that if you are in an environment where you are fighting injustices (at least, what you think is an injustice) against a particular group of people - whether its religious, civil, race etc - then it will always be a breeding ground for unrest. Think of the ANC in South Africa. I think that if I found myself in an environment where I was 10 times more likely to be out of a job, without a home, seen as a second class citizen within my own country, what do you do? What would you do?
Accept it or try to change it? Trying to change it via political means is all well and good if the everyone is working from an even playing field. In many instances of conflicts, that is not the case which leaves conflict as the only viable option (hate saying conflict being only viable option but in some cases it is).

Think of the uprising agains Saddam after first Gulf war. What would peoples opinion of this be - a glorious revolution that is 100% justified? Similarly if people started uprising against Mugabe in Zimbabwe.
Some things will never be solved through political means. It saddens me to say this but where civil wars have arisen, where minority of the population is being prejudiced against by the majority, (although South Africa reverses this trend - is violence still justified?) then I feel they are justified in taking up arms if all other avenues have been exhausted.

Hope that makes sense! Sorry about going way-off topic in this tread. Maybe best in another forum.

 

[Party Boy]

There are!

I didn't know you were from belfast zerodude. Cloudimani and achtung_davy and maddie are from here but they never really post.

:Wave:

Not from NI, though sister went to Queens. Have visited Belfast a few times. From North Kildare... Belfast is only max 2 hours away with that new motorway from Dublin!

 

[Laura M]

I guess the point I wanted to make was that if you are in an environment where you are fighting injustices (at least, what you think is an injustice) against a particular group of people - whether its religious, civil, race etc - then it will always be a breeding ground for unrest. Think of the ANC in South Africa. I think that if I found myself in an environment where I was 10 times more likely to be out of a job, without a home, seen as a second class citizen within my own country, what do you do? What would you do?
Accept it or try to change it? Trying to change it via political means is all well and good if the everyone is working from an even playing field. In many instances of conflicts, that is not the case which leaves conflict as the only viable option (hate saying conflict being only viable option but in some cases it is).

Hope that makes sense! Sorry about going way-off topic in this tread. Maybe best in another forum.

My Mum, who is one of the people who got a really bad time of it during the troubles and is really against the fighting that has went on here in the past, said that without people fighting in the IRA much more Catholics would have lost their lives because nobody was making any progress in protecting them.

 

[Laura M]

Not from NI, though sister went to Queens. Have visited Belfast a few times. From North Kildare... Belfast is only max 2 hours away with that new motorway from Dublin!

i'm at Queen's now.
That new motorway to Dublin is superb. I went to dublintwice in September there on the Enterprise. It's expensive but I love getting the train down. I love seeing Drogheda. I spent so many summers there at my great granny and aunts house. I loved it.

 

[ZeroDude]

yea just why the provo's have so much influence in communities policing the kids, cause the psni dont do much btw i lived on the falls road but now live in the wonderful andytown......................

 

[Laura M]

I'm from A/town!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I moved out like 7 years ago now but still. That's where I grew up. I have a country accent though!

 

[Laura M]

It's a small world indeed, 2 members here went to the same school as me.

 

[Celticfc]

My Mum, who is one of the people who got a really bad time of it during the troubles and is really against the fighting that has went on here in the past, said that without people fighting in the IRA much more Catholics would have lost their lives because nobody was making any progress in protecting them.

This is very true.

 

[wolfeden]

wolfeden, when a family member of yours is shot in the head by the ruc with a plastic bullet and has part of their brain removed leaving them with epilepsy and a limp for the rest of their life, when another family member lived in more than 15 houses due to the troubles and is left with a scar on their head after a grown man chased her into a barbed wire fence and left death threats at their house, when you've lived in a country that you can't even go shopping in without having your bags searched (even when your a child) or being evacuated from a building due to a bomb scare ppl wouldn't be so pro-violence. I don't understand how people who haven't lived through that could even be so strongly for such a situation like that. (That's not directed at you, just folk in general who would have been pro-violence.)

*nods*
Aye, I know. It's the truths you're telling that I had to go out and learn for myself, and as stupid as this sounds I never had questioned it -- until that moment of the movie.
We had several immigrant Irish, distant cousins and friends thereof staying with us at times, not always here legally, and some of them had stories like yours and worse, of people's doors being kicked down in the middle of the night, families killed. One described a "plastic bullet" for me once; it sounds inane, until you find out the thing is the size of a toilet-paper tube and can blind or maim someone as badly as any other projectile...

A friend of mine and I had even made a pact. If our lives were still as crap as they were when we were 15, once we turned 18 we were going to "go back home and join the IRA".

How ridiculous does that sound now. Two Americans, thinking they even had the right (or would have been accepted, for chrissake) to go become a part of this in another country... John Walker Lindh, anyone?
To my own ends... Yes, I still have a sticker on my truck that reads 26+6=1, but it doesn't mean I believe a single drop more of anyone's blood spilled towards that goal will ever help.
My own family situation even mirrored Bono's, a little... my grandparents had a "mixed" Catholic/Protestant marriage and while here in America it wasn't nearly as controversial, it still garnered a good share of strangeness.

It's a mess, but it's a mess that goes back a lot further than 1916, or 1847, and it's gone so much deeper than "Brits out of Ireland" or "Catholics vs Protestants".. and bringing the thread back to R&H.. I never understood any of it, until that moment of the movie made me go find out for myself. That it was 17 years ago.... makes my head spin.

 

[I'mstillrunning]

the brits [hopefully] learned that for every member of the IRA they killed, they were enlisting countless more, and you end up fighting a war with no end

which frightenly sounds very similiar to what is happening in iraq right now

killing doesnt prove who's right, it just proves who's left

 

[ZeroDude]

ya think?