U2 working with pop songwriter for new album

[Von Schloopen]

Exactly, not much of note since the mid 80s.

And where did I say selling lots of records= no integrity? Looks like you missed that point too. Here's the quote again:

“We were on [Interscope]. And I have had Jimmy Iovine, the president of that label, come up to me on every record from With Teeth onwards saying I should do some sort of urban thing — it was Timbaland for a while, then it was Pharrell for a while — because ‘that’s how you sell records.’ The idea seemed so preposterous and insulting.”

The NIN example shows Iovine to be a man of extremely poor judgement, ignorant of the artists he deals with, and crassly commercial, and without integrity. Not because he wants hits, but because he is pressures people to sacrifice their integrity to get them. Sadly, I know that to a lot of people that's an outdated concept, but it really does matter. Records last forever, but hits are fleeting. Very few songs enter the canon, so to tailor something that will last forever to a moment is absurd.

Iovine seems like the kind of guy who'd have pressured Scorsese to make a Porky's film because it would be a hit.

As an aside, NIN don't need help to get hits. You think he'd know that, working for their label and all, never mind being a person who is supposedly knowledgeable about music.

I'm curious to see how you'll misinterpret this.

Right. Not much of note since the 80s. But still a ton worth noting. That's the point.

Now that we've got that out of the way.

Did Reznor do a record with any of those artists? Was he forced into it? Mentioning something to him is pressing him to sacrifice his integrity?

Was is Reznor sitting across from Iovine in a dark, smoke-filled office, Jimmy flanked by hulking bodyguards "Trent, it really would be in your best interest to record a big hit. You've got your family to think about."

Or was it "hey Trent you should do an urban thing with Timbaland. I think it could be a big hit. I could set it up." Trent:"No thanks, I'm not interested in that." Jimmy- "Cool. Just though I'd see if you were into that. Good luck with the record."

Reznor is notoriously self-centered. I can see him being insulted at the slightest disconnect with his views.

Got any other examples of Iovine doing the devil's work? Or is a cranky Trent quote all the evidence needed to declare the man has no integrity?

 

[Von Schloopen]

They'd be better off seeking Flood's advice than anyone else.

I'd be surprised if they didn't ask Flood his thoughts on their stuff. They've know each other forever.

 

[Hollow Island]

Right. Not much of note since the 80s. But still a ton worth noting. That's the point.

Now that we've got that out of the way.

Did Reznor do a record with any of those artists? Was he forced into it? Mentioning something to him is pressing him to sacrifice his integrity?

Was is Reznor sitting across from Iovine in a dark, smoke-filled office, Jimmy flanked by hulking bodyguards "Trent, it really would be in your best interest to record a big hit. You've got your family to think about."

Or was it "hey Trent you should do an urban thing with Timbaland. I think it could be a big hit. I could set it up." Trent:"No thanks, I'm not interested in that." Jimmy- "Cool. Just though I'd see if you were into that. Good luck with the record."

Reznor is notoriously self-centered. I can see him being insulted at the slightest disconnect with his views.

Got any other examples of Iovine doing the devils work? Or is a cranky Trent quote all the evidence needed to declare the man has no integrity?

Using a popular idea of his character isn't really the best way to refute an argument since you don't actually address it. Calling him cranky and self centred doesn't address anything he said, or anything I am saying for that matter.

Your reduction to absurdity doesn't do much for me either. You're ignoring the substance of what Reznor is saying. Does that take effort?

How can you not see that a label guy repeatedly trying to get NIN to work with hot hip hop producers SOLELY TO GET HITS is trying to persuade Trent Reznor to sacrifice integrity? It shows, in so many different ways, that the guy is clueless. You don't need any more examples.

And no, NIN didn't work with them... because of integrity.

Are you Iovine's BFF or something? You're attempting to defend him, but really you're just ignoring evidence that suggests his advice may not be the best.

Also, you're using examples of work he did a generation ago to say that he's someone they should potentially listen to! It's ridiculous. Maybe he had some sense when he was working with Patti Smith, and maybe he's a good guy, but really...if telling NIN to go "urban" and work with NERD or Timbaland because "that's how you get hits" isn't a sign of piss poor judgement (artistically and commercially) then I don't know what is. I wonder if he convinced Chris Cornell to do the Timbaland record.

 

[Von Schloopen]

Using a popular idea of his character isn't really the best way to refute an argument since you don't actually address it. Calling him cranky and self centred doesn't address anything he said, or anything I am saying for that matter.

Your reduction to absurdity doesn't do much for me either. You're ignoring the substance of what Reznor is saying. Does that take effort?

How can you not see that a label guy repeatedly trying to get NIN to work with hot hip hop producers SOLELY TO GET HITS is trying to persuade Trent Reznor to sacrifice integrity? It shows, in so many different ways, that the guy is clueless. You don't need any more examples.

And no, NIN didn't work with them... because of integrity.

Are you Iovine's BFF or something? You're attempting to defend him, but really you're just ignoring evidence that suggests his advice may not be the best.

Also, you're using examples of work he did a generation ago to say that he's someone they should potentially listen to! It's ridiculous. Maybe he had some sense when he was working with Patti Smith, and maybe he's a good guy, but really...if telling NIN to go "urban" and work with NERD or Timbaland because "that's how you get hits" isn't a sign of piss poor judgement (artistically and commercially) then I don't know what is. I wonder if he convinced Chris Cornell to do the Timbaland record.

Reznor is cranky. He's had trouble with every label he's been on. So I take what he says with a grain of salt. Just like I take Bono's hyperbole about the next great U2 record with a grain of salt.

I also don't subscribe to the idea that working with hip-hop producers = lack of integrity. I think some of those producers are doing amazing things. I also don't think music made with the sole intention of being a hit is automatically bad. I love the hell out of my Motown box-sets. Possibly the best music ever created. And they're filled with music that was formulated to be hits. Big, fat, radio hits.

Maybe Cornell likes Timbalands records? Maybe they got along. Was working with Timbaland supposed to automatically = big hits? Lord knows Cornell working with Timbaland was more of a risk than reforming Soundgarden or doing another acoustic record.

Iovine's been involved with some timeless records. He's know the band forever. I don't think the fact they talk is surprising. He mixed "Darkness On The Edge Of Town." How do you not talk to the guy who mixed "Darkness On The Edge Of Town"?

Interscope has a pretty big roster of rock artists. Feist. TV On The Radio. Yeah Yeah Yeahs. Queens Of The Stoneage. Wolfmother. Cold War Kids. Do any of them have horror stories of Iovine shoving stuff down their throats? I mean, Josh Homme doesn't seem like a guy to put up with much bs. Neither does Dr. Dre for that matter.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I really wish U2 would just write the record they want to write, and not worry about anything else.

They are well past the age and stage of their careers where giving two shits about what anyone thinks should matter to them.

They're old. It's okay. People get old. Be old and be you.

If that's classic u2 songs like all that you can't leave behind? Great. I don't care what anyone says, that was a good damn album. Not sonically groundbreaking by any means... just good, solid tunes.

You still want to be experimental? Great. Go for it. Just don't go half way, cause that's when you get heaping piles of dog crap like No Line.

Just don't try to pander to top 40 radio. That's just plain sad and pathetic. Nobody wants to be the old guy in the club...

 

[LuckyNumber7]

The only disaster that they can really do is an album that shoots Top 40 on multiple songs and fails miserably. That's universal death to any band.

Other than that, I agree. Just do something though and stop fucking around.

 

[Von Schloopen]

Is there a quote somewhere from the band saying they want to sound like Gaga? Beiber? or Minaj? Or is that all supposition based people's current definition of the word "hit?"

Cause when I think radio hits in relation to U2, I think of "Beautiful Day", "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For", "I Will Follow", "Mysterious Ways", etc. I don't reference Beiber. They have a long history of writing and recording satisfying and radio friendly hits. I think that's what they mean when they say hits.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Is there a quote somewhere from the band saying they want to sound like Gaga? Beiber? or Minaj? Or is that all supposition based people's current definition of the word "hit?"

Cause when I think radio hits in relation to U2, I think of "Beautiful Day", "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For", "I Will Follow", "Mysterious Ways", etc. I don't reference Beiber. They have a long history of recording satisfying and radio friendly hits.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that at all. Those are different types of music all together.

I think people are more afraid of a stream of Get on Your Boots or Crazy Tonight, etc. where the songs are attempts are being tailor made for radio and fall short of that. They're radio in nature but don't even achieve that.

Songs like Beautiful Day are sound-changing radio hits. I don't think anything like it really came before it, to be honest. It was incredibly successful.

Again though, it's the generic, safe sound that is what people are afraid of. So cautious of everyones' ears that the final product turns out boring or just bad.

 

[LemonMelon]

That's quite true about Beautiful Day...that song wasn't tailor-made to any existing sound or market. It was U2 being U2 and, ironically, that was enough to shift market interests for the next decade; the bombastic BD sound is quite common on adult contemporary radio these days.

Nobody remembers followers for very long. U2 has always been more successful as leaders.

 

[rjhbonovox]

They really should tour their b-sides and rarities.

 

[kingofsorrow]

They really should tour their b-sides and rarities.

 

[Niceman]

They really should tour their b-sides and rarities.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

They really should tour their b-sides and rarities.

That was just Bono trolling Interference.

I would imagine that as being live-suicide. A live show is something U2 never has to be worried about... they're already pissing their pants about staying relevant as recording artists... I can't imagine them worrying about staying relevant in their live shows. I mean... nothing sounds less enticing about going to a U2 show than replacing Streets with Race Against Time!

 

[LemonMelon]

They really should tour their b-sides and rarities.

The Hive is strong with this one.

 

[Niceman]

That was just Bono trolling Interference.

I would imagine that as being live-suicide. A live show is something U2 never has to be worried about... they're already pissing their pants about staying relevant as recording artists... I can't imagine them worrying about staying relevant in their live shows. I mean... nothing sounds less enticing about going to a U2 show than replacing Streets with Race Against Time!

Wow I'd love that!!!!!

 

[nirniva]

They really should tour their b-sides and rarities.

 

[mama cass]

That was just Bono trolling Interference.

I would imagine that as being live-suicide. A live show is something U2 never has to be worried about... they're already pissing their pants about staying relevant as recording artists... I can't imagine them worrying about staying relevant in their live shows. I mean... nothing sounds less enticing about going to a U2 show than replacing Streets with Race Against Time!

i've never even heard of Race Against Time! lol!

 

[rjhbonovox]

That was just Bono trolling Interference.

I would imagine that as being live-suicide. A live show is something U2 never has to be worried about... they're already pissing their pants about staying relevant as recording artists... I can't imagine them worrying about staying relevant in their live shows. I mean... nothing sounds less enticing about going to a U2 show than replacing Streets with Race Against Time!

Wrong again, I would really love them to tour b-sides and rarities. Its a cool thing to do. Obviously not a stadium tour but a small arena job. How many times do we really need to hear Streets or Pride. I remember an interview with Bono after a Zoo TV gig when they were playing 8 straight songs from AB, he said "we might lose some of the pop kids, but we don't need them". U2 need that attitude NOW!

 

[Niceman]

i've never even heard of Race Against Time! lol!

It's worth looking into!

 

[Hollow Island]

Reznor is cranky. He's had trouble with every label he's been on. So I take what he says with a grain of salt. Just like I take Bono's hyperbole about the next great U2 record with a grain of salt.

If you knew about his label troubles (he's been on two) you wouldn't boil it down to crankiness. And those troubles have nothing to do with the example I use.

I also don't subscribe to the idea that working with hip-hop producers = lack of integrity. I think some of those producers are doing amazing things. I also don't think music made with the sole intention of being a hit is automatically bad. I love the hell out of my Motown box-sets. Possibly the best music ever created. And they're filled with music that was formulated to be hits. Big, fat, radio hits.

Me neither, in fact I said the opposite, and Trent is a big hip hop fan. You're completely ignoring what I'm saying and talking about a bunch of other shit in an attempt to refute it. It's really weird.

Maybe Cornell likes Timbalands records? Maybe they got along. Was working with Timbaland supposed to automatically = big hits? Lord knows Cornell working with Timbaland was more of a risk than reforming Soundgarden or doing another acoustic record.

Maybe, but I doubt it, and it's easily the worst record ever made.

Iovine's been involved with some timeless records. He's know the band forever. I don't think the fact they talk is surprising. He mixed "Darkness On The Edge Of Town." How do you not talk to the guy who mixed "Darkness On The Edge Of Town"?

Again, you're talking about things that are immaterial to the argument I'm making.

Interscope has a pretty big roster of rock artists. Feist. TV On The Radio. Yeah Yeah Yeahs. Queens Of The Stoneage. Wolfmother. Cold War Kids. Do any of them have horror stories of Iovine shoving stuff down their throats? I mean, Josh Homme doesn't seem like a guy to put up with much bs. Neither does Dr. Dre for that matter.

I don't know, do they?

You're a big fan of fallacies. It's very amusing.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I think people are more afraid of a stream of Get on Your Boots or Crazy Tonight, etc. where the songs are attempts are being tailor made for radio and fall short of that. They're radio in nature but don't even achieve that.

I don't know where a place exists where Boots is tailor made for radio, but that's a world that I don't want to live in.

Crazy Tonight? Absolutely... Boots? I think Boots was them trying to be trippy and experimental, but not wanting to go all in, so it ended up sounding like utter dog shit.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Wrong again, I would really love them to tour b-sides and rarities. Its a cool thing to do. Obviously not a stadium tour but a small arena job. How many times do we really need to hear Streets or Pride. I remember an interview with Bono after a Zoo TV gig when they were playing 8 straight songs from AB, he said "we might lose some of the pop kids, but we don't need them". U2 need that attitude NOW!

Yea... they don't need to play Pete The Chop, but they have such a vast catalog that they can, and should, mix it up more.

 

[Hollow Island]

I really wish U2 would just write the record they want to write, and not worry about anything else.

They are well past the age and stage of their careers where giving two shits about what anyone thinks should matter to them.

They're old. It's okay. People get old. Be old and be you.

If that's classic u2 songs like all that you can't leave behind? Great. I don't care what anyone says, that was a good damn album. Not sonically groundbreaking by any means... just good, solid tunes.

You still want to be experimental? Great. Go for it. Just don't go half way, cause that's when you get heaping piles of dog crap like No Line.

Just don't try to pander to top 40 radio. That's just plain sad and pathetic. Nobody wants to be the old guy in the club...

This is exactly what they need to hear from the bartender at 2 am next Saturday night.

 

[Hollow Island]

One of the B sides I could imagine them playing is Deep In The Heart. It has such a great groove, and it would allow Edge to really go off. It would be a great live song. Most of their b sides aren't very good, so they can stay on the bonus discs. But their catelogue is so incredible they could pull 25 random songs and play a great show.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

They don't need to play B sides like they were Springsteen... lets just start with reaching into the vast collection of A sides that get largely ignored first, then we can worry about B sides.

When was the last time they played two hearts beat as one? How does a song like that, which begs to be played live, get ignored for decades?

 

[Hollow Island]

I think Edge finds it too hard to play. Lazy bastard.

Speaking of that song and the retro kick they've been on since 2000, if they were to revisit the sound a particular era I'd love to hear a return to the harshness of War, and the return of the electric violin.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I find it sad that Springsteen has made more Irish sounding songs in his last album alone than U2 have in their entire career... but that's just me.

 

[hand0lotion]

everyone calm yout titties. Next news we'll hear is likely from Adam as he does his Walk In My Shoes event in Dublin on April 26.

/unsubscribes from thread

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

My titties are very calm... and that's the problem.

The longer it goes that we here nothing but meaningless babble instead of actual news, the less I find myself caring.

 

[The John Tree]

The difference between Springsteen's B-Sides and U2's B-Sides are that Springsteen's B-Sides are just as good as his A-Sides whereas the majority of U2's B-Sides are B-Sides for a reason (with the exception of a lot of the Joshua Tree stuff, of course).