US Politics XXI: Old Man 3-Way

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oh Christ. You know how much shit they had to change and shelve in order to get any form of the ACA passed? But yes, the blame lands squarely on Biden's shoulders. :doh:

Tell me the story about how M4A would have gone over in 2000...
This law was not specifically about Medicare for All so I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm saying Joe Biden, once again, came out on the wrong side of an issue and helped Republicans do something that will get people killed. Gilead is now allowed to price people out of treatment for Covid-19.

When you talk about reaching across the aisle and working with Republicans, this is what it means.
 
You do realize that “canceling student loan debt” just changes who pays for it, right? It’s never really cancelled.

So you have a six figure income, at least partly based on the student loans you took out, but now think that taxpayers, i. e. other people, should have to pay for it.

I don’t think I should have to pay for your student loans, I’m sorry.

My opinion as a conservative may surprise you. Yes I agree we should Cancel student loan debts.

1. Because the availability of cheap money ie student loans allowed Universities to jack up prices and make them unaffordable for the average student. So without loans education would be for only the rich, basically disenfranchising the middle class and stopping social mobility. This kills our economy by keeping talent out of fields like medicine, law etc.

2/ It would infuse cash into the system.

3. You are basically suppressing a class of consumers who are young and educated from contributing to the economy--they are the ones you want to spend--us older people have most of the shit we want, we are not buying a whole lot of new stuff.

4. Colleges already were paid, it's not hurting them.
 
I’m now persuaded, after this crisis, that student debt relief is absolutely one of the best things we could do for stimulus.
 
It's probably the best thing you could do for the economy, period. The more out-of-hand we let student debt get, the more we hurt potential GDP. You're already looking at an entire generation unable to start making meaningful investments until well into their 30s or beyond. That's a huge problem.
 
also, Trump's numbers are clearly and steadily improving.

there's a natural rally-around-the-flag effect in any sort of crisis, and his daily press conferences are helpful in this regard.

one wonders what will happen should the death toll start to precipitously rise.
 
If Trump wants to reopen the country so quickly he should go walk around an ICU without any PPE and let us know how it goes.

We all want the fucking country open, dickwad. We also don't want, ya know, people to die.

This.

I can't believe we actually have to explain this to otherwise supposedly functioning adults. God, people are dumb.
 
also, Trump's numbers are clearly and steadily improving.

there's a natural rally-around-the-flag effect in any sort of crisis, and his daily press conferences are helpful in this regard.

one wonders what will happen should the death toll start to precipitously rise.

You mean because he's on TV every day, that's how they're helpful? I can't stomach it, but the content I've seen of these "briefings" is not factual (from his mouth) or indicative of leadership whatsoever.

It's all up to what some people will believe and eat up with a spoon I suppose. They just love seeing their orange hero?

Was Dr. Fauci present today? Seems like he's gone missing, hmmm. I don't even know what the schedule is anymore, they're not good for my blood pressure.
 
My opinion as a conservative may surprise you. Yes I agree we should Cancel student loan debts.

1. Because the availability of cheap money ie student loans allowed Universities to jack up prices and make them unaffordable for the average student. So without loans education would be for only the rich, basically disenfranchising the middle class and stopping social mobility. This kills our economy by keeping talent out of fields like medicine, law etc.

2/ It would infuse cash into the system.

3. You are basically suppressing a class of consumers who are young and educated from contributing to the economy--they are the ones you want to spend--us older people have most of the shit we want, we are not buying a whole lot of new stuff.

4. Colleges already were paid, it's not hurting them.



I think items 1 and 3 are more of the partisan debate, but items 2 and 4 are definitely why as a response to a crisis, this is a good idea. The only thing this damages is future lending from the govt (lack of growth on capital makes it hard to subsidize future loans). But that’s another problem for another day. We need people to spend money tonow. Pausing debt means they’ll hoard it. Eliminating some of it means they’ll possess and potentially use it.

I’ll use my example: if I was permitted to pass on 10k of my student loans, I could supply my family with 10k cash over 10 months (of which is post tax!!) since I’m now the only sibling of four who is employed and my parents lost their business.

That means real cash, not fake printed money causing rapid inflation.
 
Will the government raise taxes after this coronavirus epidemic? If they do pump money into the economy, they must have a plan to get it all back after all this drama. The government doesn't just give out money for nothing. They no doubt will want every penny and pound back.
 
Will the government raise taxes after this coronavirus epidemic? If they do pump money into the economy, they must have a plan to get it all back after all this drama. The government doesn't just give out money for nothing. They no doubt will want every penny and pound back.



Not sure that’s the way it works. We aren’t “borrowing” from the government. They’re borrowing from us.
 
Will the government raise taxes after this coronavirus epidemic? If they do pump money into the economy, they must have a plan to get it all back after all this drama. The government doesn't just give out money for nothing. They no doubt will want every penny and pound back.

I read that there are 2 possibilities (no idea which is in the bill)

1. The stimulus check is a loan on next year's tax return. So say you're single, you get a check for $1,200.00. Next year you file your taxes and you would have a federal return of $1,500.00, instead you get $300.00 (This option would have me paying next year as my check as a married joint filer with a kid of $2,900.00 would far outweigh my usual federal return) Lots of folks will be pissed if this is the adopted option, but won't know it till months after casting their votes for their favorite coiffed orangutan.

2. The stimulus check will be taxed as regular income (I believe this happened with the Bush stimulus).
So a single person would owe the appropriate tax for their bracket on the $1,200.00 when they file. A much more reasonable option. Some folks will still be unhappy (they were under Bush)
 
also, Trump's numbers are clearly and steadily improving.

there's a natural rally-around-the-flag effect in any sort of crisis, and his daily press conferences are helpful in this regard.

one wonders what will happen should the death toll start to precipitously rise.

He's definitely taken control of the narrative, and it's been exacerbated by the Democrats' weak response. Add in the fact that Biden disappeared from the airwaves and then returned barely able to put thoughts together yesterday (I was uncomfortable watching it), and he's definitely bouncing back. But you are exactly right: he's taking advantage of this period before the numbers get truly awful.

This is all unprecedented, and I don't think anyone can predict how things go from here. But it won't be good.
 
This seems extremely bad.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sena...oronavirus-bill_n_5e7b77a6c5b62a1870d62d83?5b

The emergency coronavirus legislation that the Senate agreed to on Tuesday can only be described as an outrage. It is not an economic rescue package, but a sentence of unprecedented economic inequality and corporate control over our politics that will resonate for a generation.

It represents a transfer of wealth and power to the super rich from the rest of us, with the support of both political parties ― a damning statement about the condition of American democracy.

Final text of the bill has not been released, but according to a legislative draft, the new law would establish a $4.5 trillion corporate bailout fund overseen by Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, with few substantive constraints. The bill permits bailed out companies to lay off up to 10% of their workforce over the next six months, with no restrictions thereafter. Mnuchin would have authority to waive any upside for the public in its new investments, and the bill’s restrictions on stock buybacks at bailed-out firms are too temporary to be significant. Bailed out companies could even pay dividends to their shareholders.

Bailout money will flow to the shareholders of large corporations, otherwise known as rich people. The oversight terms that Democrats secured are purely cosmetic, replicating the toothless provisions of the 2008 bank bailout that enabled watchdogs to report abuse but not actually prevent or rectify it.

“If you give vast amounts of public money to a single person with no real accountability, you won’t like what happens next,” Damon Silvers, the deputy chair of the oversight panel for the bank bailout, wrote on Tuesday.

In exchange for this takeover, Democrats got four months of more generous unemployment benefits for the millions who will be laid off and a one-time check of $1,200 per adult, eliminating a Republican restriction that would have limited poor people to just $600 and phasing out payments for six-figure incomes. These are not bad provisions, but they pale in comparison to the handout offered to the rich.

...

Working people, by contrast, do not have time to wait. The coronavirus layoffs have already begun, and when official numbers begin rolling in on Thursday, they will be shocking. Democrats and Republicans have essentially decided to hold a pittance of relief for the people hit hardest hostage to the most reckless and, at the moment, unnecessary corporate welfare program ever conceived.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) boasted that the package is “a wartime level of investment into our nation.” But nothing about the legislation resembles the way a nation prepares for an ambitious military operation. The legislation provides nothing of substance to address the coronavirus pandemic itself. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D) has already said the package will do next to nothing to assuage the disaster unfolding in his state. It mobilizes no new resources, organizes no production, improves no medical supply delivery and trains no new nurses. Instead, it moves an enormous amount of money around and puts the Trump administration in charge of its movement.

The dissonance between the actions of Senate Democrats today and those from just a few short months ago is mortifying. In December, House Democrats voted to impeach President Donald Trump for withholding congressionally mandated aid to a national ally, arguing persuasively that Trump’s actions were designed to undermine his political rival for the presidency, Joe Biden. Democrats literally tried to remove Trump from office for abusing the public purse for personal political gain. On Wednesday, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) and every Senate Democrat agreed to authorize more than $4 trillion for Trump’s top lieutenants to pass around.

For too long, Democrats have ignored the suffering and dysfunction caused by structural problems with the American economy, trusting that social welfare payments will be sufficient to counter the power disparity between the rich and the rest of us. They are wrong to accept such a bargain now.


We live in an era in which the wealthy and the well-connected dominate almost every aspect of our society. The rich not only live different lives than the rest of us ― they live significantly longer lives, a trend that is likely to be exacerbated as the medical system cracks under the pressure of the incoming coronavirus caseloads and as working people lose access to basic care.
 
I don’t think we need to have more debates. I’m fine with Bernie basically being a plan B.

They’re both high risk for the virus. Everyone dogs Biden and his mind, but we seem to gloss over a 78 year old heart attack survivor.

Honestly i would feel so much better if Warren were in charge
 
I don’t think we need to have more debates. I’m fine with Bernie basically being a plan B.

They’re both high risk for the virus. Everyone dogs Biden and his mind, but we seem to gloss over a 78 year old heart attack survivor.

Honestly i would feel so much better if Warren were in charge
Yep. I'm kind of done too. The only thing that will really piss me off is if it becomes apparent that Bernie stays in the race to hurt Biden, thus helping Trump win. Then that's a real problem.
 
We can’t control natural disasters

Our major flaw as a species has always come down to three roots of the same tree.

Greed. Hatred. Delusion.

I still hold out hope that compassion can win, but eventually everything that arises will pass.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom