US Politics XIV: Vote for Pedro - Page 31 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-20-2019, 02:06 PM   #601
The Fly
 
Magnus Maximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 194
Local Time: 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_o...of_deep_battle



please keep going though, it's really entertaining to watch someone failing this hard over and over again to actually know what they're talking about.
Caught You-- If you knew anything you would know Russia abandoned it, and didn't re adopt it after the war.

Really listening to you is listening to a Virgin teach a Sex ed class
__________________

Magnus Maximus is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:10 PM   #602
The Fly
 
Magnus Maximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 194
Local Time: 11:32 PM
The rest really wasn't a true deep battle doctrine, because Russia was going on the offensive.


So you attack in Mass defend in depth, but if were not really on the defensive, to you stay in depth, No


Just say your WRONG, it's ok, I won't think less of you
__________________

Magnus Maximus is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:12 PM   #603
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nazi punks fuck off
Posts: 22,027
Local Time: 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Maximus View Post
Caught You-- If you knew anything you would know Russia abandoned it, and didn't re adopt it after the war.

Really listening to you is listening to a Virgin teach a Sex ed class
from literally the exact same link:

Quote:
Soviet military analysts and historians divide the war into three periods.*The Red Army was primarily on the strategic defensive during the first period of war (22 June 1941 – 19 November 1942). By late 1942 the Soviets had recovered sufficiently to put their concept into practice. The second period of war (19 November 1942 – 31 December 1943), which commenced with the Soviet strategic counteroffensive at Stalingrad, was a transitional period marked by alternating attempts by both sides to secure strategic advantage. After that, deep battle was used to devastating effect, allowing the Red Army to destroy hundreds of Axis divisions. After the Battle of Kursk, the Soviets had firmly secured the strategic initiative and advanced beyond the Dnepr River. The Red Army maintained the strategic initiative during the third and final period of war (1944–1945) and ultimately played a central role in the Allied victory in Europe.
good lord, this is so easy.
DaveC is online now  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:13 PM   #604
The Fly
 
Magnus Maximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 194
Local Time: 11:32 PM
So you see, Russia really didn't use the Classical deep battle doctrine during WW2. That's why they almost lost.


Read something, all you know are Hollywood Fairytales


They did implement it during the Cold War
Magnus Maximus is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:13 PM   #605
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Maximus View Post


Just say your WRONG,
Vintage STING.
anitram is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:17 PM   #606
The Fly
 
Magnus Maximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 194
Local Time: 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
from literally the exact same link:



good lord, this is so easy.
This just shows your lack of understanding

quit just using the wiki and actually read something

Do you understand tactics at all deep battle cannot be used in the offense

So you and the wiki writers don't understand at all. Deep Battle doctrine as for the defense
Magnus Maximus is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:18 PM   #607
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nazi punks fuck off
Posts: 22,027
Local Time: 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Maximus View Post
So you see, Russia really didn't use the Classical deep battle doctrine during WW2. That's why they almost lost.


Read something, all you know are Hollywood Fairytales


They did implement it during the Cold War
still waiting for you to provide any sort of sources or statistical backup for any of your points. and no, saying "period and end of story" a bunch of times and occasionally listing a random book title doesn't count.
DaveC is online now  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:20 PM   #608
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nazi punks fuck off
Posts: 22,027
Local Time: 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Maximus View Post
This just shows your lack of understanding

quit just using the wiki and actually read something

Do you understand tactics at all deep battle cannot be used in the offense

So you and the wiki writers don't understand at all. Deep Battle doctrine as for the defense
defense in depth and deep battle are two entirely different things. you'd think a military officer who's supposedly spent their whole life learning about this might know that extremely basic fact.
DaveC is online now  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:24 PM   #609
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nazi punks fuck off
Posts: 22,027
Local Time: 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Maximus View Post
So you and the wiki writers don't understand at all.
i took out the citation numbers for the sake of readability but since you insist on being made to look like an ignorant ass here's the citation for that exact bit:

Krause, Michael and Phillips, Cody.Historical Perspectives of Operational Art. Center of Military History, United States Army. 2006.*ISBN*978-0-16-072564-7

so your position is that the US army's center of military history doesn't understand the strategic history of the soviet army, but you do. this is certainly an interesting tactic.
DaveC is online now  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:28 PM   #610
The Fly
 
Magnus Maximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 194
Local Time: 11:32 PM
Further deep operations has nothing to do with what truly defeated to Germans, Deep Operations is a combined Arms effort that really has nothing to do with the fact that the German army over extende there own lines. Further the WW2 Soviet Army didn't have sufficient Mechanized units to follow their own doctrine in essence what you think deep operations and what they really are wrong. You simply don't understand
Magnus Maximus is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:30 PM   #611
The Fly
 
Magnus Maximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 194
Local Time: 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
i took out the citation numbers for the sake of readability but since you insist on being made to look like an ignorant ass here's the citation for that exact bit:

Krause, Michael and Phillips, Cody.Historical Perspectives of Operational Art. Center of Military History, United States Army. 2006.*ISBN*978-0-16-072564-7

so your position is that the US army's center of military history doesn't understand the strategic history of the soviet army, but you do. this is certainly an interesting tactic.
Actually I worked at the center of Military History at FT Leslie McNair, you can find books on any subject that often contradict each other.

You don't understand what deep operations are, you don't understand what you watched on enemy at the Gates was not deep operations at all, you simply don't understand.
Magnus Maximus is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:32 PM   #612
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nazi punks fuck off
Posts: 22,027
Local Time: 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Maximus View Post
You simply don't understand
so fucking prove it then. provide me with any kind of relevant, academically useful source that i can access on the internet that actually supports what you're saying, and i promise to read it with an open mind, and if it turns out that you're right then ill happily admit here publicly that im WRONG.
DaveC is online now  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:36 PM   #613
The Fly
 
Magnus Maximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 194
Local Time: 11:32 PM
Deep Operations are a combined arms effort (do you know what that is)


It requires mobility and Counter mobility (do you know what that is)


It requires Mechanized units that are able to penetrate the enemy front, then have the speed to exploit the gaps.


Once you go on the offensive deep operations are only achievable with mobility.


What the Russians had was accidental defense in depth.


They used MASS on the offense with a defense in depth


The only really were able to use truly deep operations was during the cold war.


You are buying into the fairytale, Russia did not beta Germany= Disease, the winter, and space defeated Germany- Stalins cruelty to his own people defeated Germany- Not the Soviet Tactic of Deep Operations
Magnus Maximus is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:39 PM   #614
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nazi punks fuck off
Posts: 22,027
Local Time: 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Maximus View Post
Actually I worked at the center of Military History at FT Leslie McNair
lol no you fucking didn't, sting.

Quote:
You don't understand what deep operations are, you don't understand what you watched on enemy at the Gates was not deep operations at all, you simply don't understand.
you literally described an exact scene from that movie as if it were actual historical fact, and then misread my comment about it completely backwards, but sure, i'm the one in this conversation who simply doesn't understand.
DaveC is online now  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:40 PM   #615
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nazi punks fuck off
Posts: 22,027
Local Time: 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Maximus View Post
Deep Operations are a combined arms effort (do you know what that is)


It requires mobility and Counter mobility (do you know what that is)


It requires Mechanized units that are able to penetrate the enemy front, then have the speed to exploit the gaps.


Once you go on the offensive deep operations are only achievable with mobility.


What the Russians had was accidental defense in depth.


They used MASS on the offense with a defense in depth


The only really were able to use truly deep operations was during the cold war.


You are buying into the fairytale, Russia did not beta Germany= Disease, the winter, and space defeated Germany- Stalins cruelty to his own people defeated Germany- Not the Soviet Tactic of Deep Operations
[citation needed]

not even going to bother continuing with this until you post some real sources.
DaveC is online now  
Old 06-20-2019, 03:45 PM   #616
The Fly
 
Magnus Maximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 194
Local Time: 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
[citation needed]

not even going to bother continuing with this until you post some real sources.
Good, Unlike you I don't need sources These are things I just know.

You the uniniated are confusing a defense in depth with counter offensive with deep operations.

Deep operations are a combined arms mechanized strategy akin the 80's US Doctrine of an Air land battle (FM 100-5 off the top of my head).

The Soviet didn't really use what you think as deep operations until the 60's. Why?

Because a lack of mechaniztion. Go back and read the doctrine you quoted and the Russians wrote in the 20's and 30's In it they say well we really can't do this at this time because of technology" or something like it. There is a pretty good article from the Army War College Magazine called "parameters" that talks about it. If I find it ill post it.

What the Soviets really used in WW2 was defense in depth, in which they wore the enemy down, really weather and disease did more. The tried deep ops but it really didn't work and they never really doctrinally applied it. Even in the article you quoted it said it met with mixed results and failed to achieve the objectives the soviets wanted. Which is still misleading because in contend it wasn't DO but DD.

The Russians can apply it now as the USSR could in the Cold War because they are actually more mechanized than the West- They have a seat for every butt, we don't. They did not have this in WW2 in using total dismounts can never tactically execute the Soviet doctrine of DO

You have bought into the fairy tale, you are confusing doctrine with actual executed tactics. they are not the same -- Free your mind

Now you think I didn't work the CMH at FT Leslie McNair- really should I describe that its about 5 miles from where the nats play, or that The homes of the Joint Chief's look beautiful up against the Potomac, or should I describe the barracks of the 3rd Infantry Regiment (not division, the division is at FT Stewart) the regiment "the old Guard" or the really Good Ethiopian restaurant across from the Canadian embassy I used to take my team to.

Yeah I was never there.

BTW tonight I am teaching an OPD (Officer Professional Development) on the relevance of the DIME in the age of Hybrid Conflict. Too bad you cant be there maybe you would learn something.
Magnus Maximus is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 03:56 PM   #617
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nazi punks fuck off
Posts: 22,027
Local Time: 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Maximus View Post
Unlike you I don't need sources These are things I just know.
right, because people who work the kind of job you claim to have would totally say things like this. bye felicia.
DaveC is online now  
Old 06-20-2019, 05:30 PM   #618
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,663
Local Time: 10:32 PM
US Politics XIV: Vote for Pedro

Hey Magnus, if you’re going to go around loudly proclaiming that everyone else is wrong and you’re right, you should be able to back that up with sources. That’s how debate works. Simply saying “you know it’s true” doesn’t make it so if you can’t verify it with reputable sources.

Otherwise you just look like you don’t actually have the sources to back it up.
Diemen is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 05:38 PM   #619
The Fly
 
Magnus Maximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 194
Local Time: 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
right, because people who work the kind of job you claim to have would totally say things like this. bye felicia.
Well they would because its right.

One other mistake I didn't catch earlier on your elementary school level rant, was the fact you gave credit to the socialists in WW1 when (and I could be wrong but pretty sure I'm not) all the victories your subscribed to Russia were carried out by the Imperial Russian Army, the Tsarists not the socialists, some might have fell into the transitional period before the socialists took over, Ill have to double check, but for the most part you were wrong again.
Magnus Maximus is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 05:43 PM   #620
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nazi punks fuck off
Posts: 22,027
Local Time: 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Maximus View Post
Well they would because its right.
yep, professional historians sure do love to say "i don't need sources because i just know it". also i really like how i posted a citation from the military history center of the US army and then in the very next post it just so happens that you conveniently worked there for many years. sure, and i used to be the queen of england.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Maximus View Post
One other mistake I didn't catch earlier on your elementary school level rant, was the fact you gave credit to the socialists in WW1 when (and I could be wrong but pretty sure I'm not) all the victories your subscribed to Russia were carried out by the Imperial Russian Army
you didn't catch that "mistake" earlier because i didn't say that, at all, in any fashion. at least you've proved my theory that you didn't actually read what i said.
__________________

DaveC is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×