US Politics V - now with 20% more echo chamber

[MrsSpringsteen]

Asshole

 

[BoMac]

Department of Justice quietly charges a white supremacist who was in Charlottesville with terrorism. The department didn’t publicize it and it took a local reporter to uncover it.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...white-supremacist_us_5a510cc2e4b01e1a4b157ae9

 

[Irvine511]

good news:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/us/pennsylvania-maps-congress.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

good news:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/us/pennsylvania-maps-congress.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Orgeropeiriria is going to be so upset

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Oh, Donnie

 

[Irvine511]

GOP panics as signs point to imminent Mueller blockbuster

The scorched-earth attacks against the FBI by a growing number of House and Senate Republicans demonstrate a high degree of fear that special counsel Robert Mueller will make blockbuster moves in the coming days and weeks that will define the fate of ongoing investigations of the Russian attack against America.

In recent days, there have been an unusually high number of revelations and disclosures, with rapid-fire speed, of upcoming meetings between Trump and Trump associates with Mueller and his special counsel team.

Most likely, these revelations are coming from Trump associates who will be questioned by Mueller, or their attorneys, which is within their right whether or not this move is legally or politically wise.

The news that the special counsel and Trump’s attorneys are negotiating the terms of Mueller’s questioning of Trump, which appears poised to occur within three weeks if terms are agreed upon, suggests that some potentially decisive moves by Mueller are likely to happen in February and potentially could begin this month.

The prospect of Trump’s testimony under oath will be a precipitating event for either a climactic moment for the investigation or a true constitutional crisis if Trump refuses to agree to terms and Mueller moves to subpoena Trump to testify before the grand jury and an intense legal battle waged with high odds of a national political firestorm.

I have long warned readers that there is a strong chance that Trump will never voluntarily agree to testify under oath, no matter what he says. What Trump said to reporters on Wednesday, that he yearns to testify under oath, was totally meaningless because he also said his testimony is contingent upon the advice he receives from his lawyers.

Trump already knows the private advice his lawyers have offered, so when he adds that qualifier to his stated desire to testify, the odds are high that this testimony does not happen and all hell breaks loose legally and politically if and when Trump formally says no to Mueller.

Behind the scenes throughout official Washington, there is a bracing for the storm that could soon engulf the investigation.

This is the context for the extreme, often irrational and in some cases ludicrous frenzied attacks against the FBI that are coming from a growing number of Republican members of the House and Senate and their hardcore allies in the media.

Most of these attacks against the FBI are so preposterous that they will not be itemized here, except to suggest that these attacks against the FBI are horrendously wrong and create huge political danger for Republicans.

These growing GOP attacks against the FBI are politically self-destructive and legally disastrous because they suggest to reasonable people that they have no confidence that Trump and other Trump associates will be cleared by investigators.

Finally, America has now entered a very dangerous zone. If Trump ultimately intends to fire Mueller, grant preemptive pardons to those who have not yet been charged or grant pardons to those who have already been charged, those actions will be triggered by the imminent fact that Trump will either soon testify before Mueller under oath or refuse to testify.

This would set off a constitutional crisis and a huge political backlash against Trump and Republicans who defend him by attacking the FBI.

 

[Nick66]

If Trump's lawyers let him speak to the special counseI, they should all be fired.

 

[Irvine511]

If Trump's lawyers let him speak to the special counseI, they should all be fired.

Agreed. There is no way he’s going to speak. He’s going to blame his lawyers, like he did with his Russian mob money laundering ... I mean “income taxes.”

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Rick Gates - COME ON DOWN!

 

[DaveC]

Oh, Donnie

Rick Gates - COME ON DOWN!

it would be real helpful when you make these sort of posts if you could include some kind of link to give some context of what you're talking about because every time i have to go searching to try to get these to make sense and i'm sure i'm not the only one. just sayin'.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

it would be real helpful when you make these sort of posts if you could include some kind of link to give some context of what you're talking about because every time i have to go searching to try to get these to make sense and i'm sure i'm not the only one. just sayin'.

Oh Donnie was in response to his impromptu drop in with the press last night

Gates was in response to Irvine's GOP panic / Mueller's about to do something else post... as the rumor currently flying around is that Gates went out and changed his lawyer because he's ready to flip

 

[BEAL]

My concern is what the hardcore supporters of Trump do when there is indictments against him, family, etc

CNN had a threat this week of a man wanting to kill the "fake news media", so it's not too unreasonable to think that his supporters will take up arms against anyone who opposed him

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

The fake news thing has been coopted by dictators across the globe

 

[Nick66]

Trump's a lot more likely to lose the next election before he'd be indicted. And I think if it ever looked like anyone in his family was facing indictment, the pardons would start flying.

 

[Danny Boy]

How does that work legally? Can you be pardoned for a crime you haven't been indicted for? Isn't accepting a pardon an admission of wrongdoing?

 

[Irvine511]

Trump's a lot more likely to lose the next election before he'd be indicted. And I think if it ever looked like anyone in his family was facing indictment, the pardons would start flying.

That’s where Eric Schneiderman comes in.

 

[Nick66]

Can you be pardoned for a crime you haven't been indicted for? Isn't accepting a pardon an admission of wrongdoing?

1. Yes
2. Possibly. But it really doesn't matter much. There is a hundred year old SCOTUS case that says accepting a pardon is a defacto of admission of guilt, but the person doesn't actually have to accept guilt, admit wrong doing, or in fact say anything, to accept a Presidential pardon.

Normally, pardons would be vetted though the DOJ and the WH, but that's not always the case, and well in Trump's case...I'm not sure normal procedures would be followed.

The President's pardon power is pretty broad (though it really hasn't been tested in court). That said, obviously he can only pardon for Federal crimes.

That’s where Eric Schneiderman comes in.

Yeah. Though I think that was primarily with regard to a potential pardon for Paul Manafort, not anyone in Trump's family.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

1. Yes
2. Possibly. But it really doesn't matter much. There is a hundred year old SCOTUS case that says accepting a pardon is a defacto of admission of guilt, but the person doesn't actually have to accept guilt, admit wrong doing, or in fact say anything, to accept a Presidential pardon.

Normally, pardons would be vetted though the DOJ and the WH, but that's not always the case, and well in Trump's case...I'm not sure normal procedures would be followed.

The President's pardon power is pretty broad (though it really hasn't been tested in court). That said, obviously he can only pardon for Federal crimes.



Yeah. Though I think that was primarily with regard to a potential pardon for Paul Manafort, not anyone in Trump's family.

Schneiderman is absolutely there as a pardon block for members of the Trump family, specifically Kushner and the President himself.

 

[Nick66]

Schneiderman is absolutely there as a pardon block for members of the Trump family, specifically Kushner and the President himself.

How so?

Is there an ongoing New York state criminal investigation into someone in Trump's family?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

How so?

It's all about the money, and the dirty money is in NY real estate deals.

I suppose it all depends on whether you actually believe that Trump Org has been helping to hide Russian money in shady real estate dealings or not - specifically in regards to the former Trump SoHo Hotel.

 

[Nick66]

Well OK, but I'm not sure how that gives Schneiderman the ability to "block" Trump from pardoning members of his family. How does that work?

As I said, the Manafort situation is different...there's potentially leverage there.

 

[DaveC]

Well OK, but I'm not sure how that gives Schneiderman the ability to "block" Trump from pardoning members of his family. How does that work?

As I said, the Manafort situation is different...there's potentially leverage there.

the president can only pardon federal crimes. trump would have no pardon power if kush or jr are charged with a NY state offense.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Well OK, but I'm not sure how that gives Schneiderman the ability to "block" Trump from pardoning members of his family. How does that work?

As I said, the Manafort situation is different...there's potentially leverage there.

Because the deals took place in the state of New York.

 

[Nick66]

Of course the President can only pardon for Federal crimes. That's what I said above.

And of course Schneiderman can indict Trump's kids for state crimes they may have committed in New York.

I'm still not clear how any of this blocks Trump's ability to pardon his family for Federal crimes.

 

[DaveC]

I'm still not clear how any of this blocks Trump's ability to pardon his family for Federal crimes.

it doesn't. nobody suggested otherwise.

 

[Nick66]

it doesn't. nobody suggested otherwise.

Schneiderman is absolutely there as a pardon block for members of the Trump family, specifically Kushner and the President himself.

.

 

[Popmartijn]

Of course the President can only pardon for Federal crimes. That's what I said above.

And of course Schneiderman can indict Trump's kids for state crimes they may have committed in New York.

I'm still not clear how any of this blocks Trump's ability to pardon his family for Federal crimes.

I believe the reasoning is something like this:
Schneiderman does not have any official power to block a presidential pardon for federal crimes. However, should Trump's family get pardoned for them, while there are also state-level crimes for which they can be tried, then Trump cannot pardon them for those. And because those family members are pardoned for federal crimes, they cannot plead the 5th when asked about them. So Mueller can gather more info to be used against those even higher up the chain.
And oh, they might still go to jail, just for other offenses.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

sigh...

A pardon block in that a federal pardon will only trigger the state investigation - which could conceivably be worse for Trump and his finances.

 

[DaveC]

schneiderman is there as a "pardon block" because if he charges anyone with a state crime, trump can't pardon it. the whole idea being that there won't only be federal charges that trump can just blanket pardon and everyone gets off scott free.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I believe the reasoning is something like this:
Schneiderman does not have any official power to block a presidential pardon for federal crimes. However, should Trump's family get pardoned for them, while there are also state-level crimes for which they can be tried, then Trump cannot pardon them for those. And because those family members are pardoned for federal crimes, they cannot plead the 5th when asked about them. So Mueller can gather more info to be used against those even higher up the chain.
And oh, they might still go to jail, just for other offenses.

Right.

The idea is that the only reason why Trump hasn't already just issued blanket pardons and fired Mueller is because the NYSAG has been cooperating with Mueller the entire time.