PhilsFan
Blue Crack Addict
This is the future Gzusfrk wants.
https://newrepublic.com/article/146540/amazon-thriving-thanks-taxpayer-dollars
https://newrepublic.com/article/146540/amazon-thriving-thanks-taxpayer-dollars
US Politics V - now with 20% more echo chamber
- Thread starter Headache in a Suitcase
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
- Status
PhilsFan
Blue Crack Addict
To this point? No one. The world right now is pay-to-play. At least there are some mechanisms for fighting back against it via the government. Let's start there. How about fighting voter suppression? Make gerrymandering illegal, increase access to voter registration, make election days holidays. Baby steps.
If people don't like what they are psid, they are free to pursue other jobs/companies. No matter how much you want to, you can't FORCE companies to pay their employees more money. They will lose good talent if they don't pay. Especially if government subsidies weren't so incredibly easy to get.
The government doesn't exist to fix everything for you. Constitutionally, the federal government should exist only to protect the freedoms of its people. If you're angry about what Amazon pays it's employees, don't work there, and don't use their products
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
This goes to what headache was talking about; these jobs are not valued as talent, so Amazon isn’t losing a thing. These are jobs that will be replaced by automation very soon, and we’ll have a burden on our hands that no one is prepared for, and no amount of personal responsibility will be able to change that.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Some smart people made the first step. The solution will reside in a hybrid single payer and private free market approach. A sudden step into single payer would have collapsed this country, and a 100% single payer or free market solution will have us continuing down this downward spiral.
The ACA was a great first step, but you all had to ruin that as well.
OP
OP
This isn't a right or left issue. It's reality.
Automation is here, and it isn't going anywhere. Minimum wage type jobs are feeling the crunch now, and bigger jobs will feel it in the coming decades.
If your job can be replaced by a machine, it will be.
So what then? What personal responsibility can be taken when the jobs literally don't exist anymore, and there aren't enough jobs to go around?
Automation is here, and it isn't going anywhere. Minimum wage type jobs are feeling the crunch now, and bigger jobs will feel it in the coming decades.
If your job can be replaced by a machine, it will be.
So what then? What personal responsibility can be taken when the jobs literally don't exist anymore, and there aren't enough jobs to go around?
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
Obamacare is the reason why I have healthcare through my employer. I work in an industry filled with freelancers, and for years I bought my healthcare on the open market. My premiums literally doubled over 5 years. Because of Obamacare, the company I work for was forced to figure out a way to provide its employees with health care, and lo and behold, they did. I get great care.
You’re also avoiding the deliberate sabotaging of the law by the GOP. And yet, it’s more popular than ever and more Americans have health care now than at any other time in history.
It must be improved, but this free market fantasy about competition is just garbage. People don’t shop around for kidney transplants, nor when I was in a freak accident (while exercising and being healthy, you know, “taking responsibility”) did I stop and tell the ambulance to go to a cheaper hospital. Health care insurance exists as a corrective to a marketplace that doesn’t operate under the same rules of supply and demand that govern, say, tennis shoes.
Single payer is the way to go. And Obamacare is several steps in the right direction.
When I read your posts, it’s not that I disagree with them so much but that I’m a little saddened at your hardness towards other people, other Americans. Sure, some people cheat the system, but not as many as you think, and it’s fractions of pennies compared to grotesque wealth inequality or, say, what could have been paid for (universal community college) by this most recent tax cut.
Last edited:
I agree with that, so we need to be proactive. If this was my kid, I would give them some ideas. Now part of the problem, is that there are higher paying jobs out there, but many don't want to put the work in required to be good at it.
Take call center jobs. Many in my area START at $13-15 an hour for customer service or collections. But many people don't want to do it because it's hard work! They don't like it!
There are factory/manufacturing jobs available, but many times you'd have to start on third or second shift, pay your dues, and work your way up! Many don't want to work third shirt.
Some friends have kids in their late teens or early twenties who are Managers at fast food places. Why? They busted their ass and worked their way up when others did the bare minimum.
These are some of the reasons why I question when someone says "this person has been making minimum wage for five years, it's obscene "!
There are many ways to earn more money, but many just don't want to put forth the effort required to do it.
With all due respect Irvine, you like it because it benefits you. Others have to pay more because of that though.
And again, not meaning to be cruel, just completely objective. Why should I or anyone else be forced to pay for someone else's healthcare? I have three kids, so I pay for their healthcare, my own, and then whoever else's because my premiums and deductible are do high.
It used to be whether you chose to do freelance work, or worked for a company that provided healthcare, it was affordable. But now, it's a complete mess, and all I know is that the cost for me keeps going up, and I have to use it less and less.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
Of course I like it because it benefits me. That’s why it’s good policy. It benefits far more people than not, and healthcare costs have been going up not because of Obamacare but because health care costs have been going up. My premium doubling happened during W’s second term, so to not like Obama had anything to do with this.
Also, OF COURSE you’re paying for someone else’s care, and one day when you need it, someone will pay for your care. That’s how insurance pools work, and that’s why the young and healthy have to pay for the sick and old, because they one day will be sick and old (or really unlucky, as in my case). I barely drive, but since we have a car we have to have insurance, should I be upset that the insurance I pay on the car I barely drive goes to bail out bad drivers? Shouldn’t you be more upset at people without insurance showing up at the ER because they have the flu? Wouldn’t universal care with an emphasis on preventative care result in a healthier population with lower overall costs?
This “complete mess” could be improved dramatically by Single Payer health care.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
This is a fairly simpleton view. This theory allows you to sleep at night and I get that, but it's not reality.
Not everyone struggling is lazy. There are many willing to put forth the effort required but don't have the means or opportunity. To believe there's a higher paying job available right now for everyone in this country is obscene and naive.
Good question! Maybe we will all have to go back to being farmers or pushing a fruit cart!
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Simple answer; because it's more expensive not to.
This whole notion that you're paying for other people's healthcare is ridiculous. You couldn't afford healthcare if we went to a completely out of pocket system, most couldn't, but if you want your children living in a world of shorter life expectancy then be my guess. Just tell them you were able to save a little more each month and "personal responsibility", I'm sure they'll appreciate it.
Yes, good points! I now have a copay for ER visits, never thought id see that! But u see, I'm not so sure it benefits most people. If, God forbid, I had a major illness or accident, I'm gonna owe $5000 upfront, and no one is going to pay that for me. Granted, it's not $20000, but it's a lot to me, especially when I'm paying thousands in premiums as well.
I am a very generous person, and I love to help people who truly need assistance. Many hospitals operate on donations already. Even before Obamacare, no one was turned away at the ER, many forget that.
I understand how insurance works. But the government has yet to give free car insurance, and force others to shoulder that cost.
It's a very complicated issue with no easy soundbite answers. I've learned a lot. Great discussion!!
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Those are both already being automated.
Well obviously we disagree on this point, which is fine. The problem is when no responsibility is given to some, and additional responsibility is given to others, it gives no incentive for the first group to improve their circumstances. Many will out of their own hard work and determination, but unfortunately, many won't unless nudged a bit
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
I will say that I really appreciate your tone and civility, and I am sorry if I’ve come off too strong at any point. I know it isn’t easy to be the lone voice responding to many voices.
I also think you and your family are exactly the kinds of people who would benefit most from single payer health care. I really do. That’s a guess, but it’s also my sense.
My hospital bill from a week in the ICU was in the thousands, but the low thousands, and I paid every bit of it. It was a lot for me at the time, but thank goodness I had insurance because the real cost would have been crippling.
iron yuppie
ONE love, blood, life
I don't tend to see automation as such a large problem as some of you do. Automation has been happening in some form or another since the 1700s, and rather than the world economy collapsing on that account, it has grown exponentially. What is needed is affordable training and education toward designing and managing that automation. Statistically (if I'm not mistaken) tech creates more jobs than it destroys; it's just that you hear from those on the losing end of creative destruction a lot more loudly than those on the winning end.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
This is going to be a big part of the solution.
OP
OP
As are call centers and factory jobs, in case anyone was wondering.
I work in a call center, along with hundreds of others. Were still kicking!
nbelcik
Refugee
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2011
- Messages
- 1,592
So then do you support free college or technical education so that people who want to increase their marketable skills can do that?
nbelcik
Refugee
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2011
- Messages
- 1,592
So should people who are poor through no fault of their own, like someone with a chronic illness who can't work or a child, be provided with health insurance and health care by the government, or should they be left to die?
I think an important point that often gets overlooked in the healthcare debate is that it's simply unsustainable with costs rising exponentially. What we need is to invest in public health/population health and focus on preventing illness and disease.
It's no secret that social and ecological determinants of health have a far greater influence on our health than lifestyle factors or you know bad luck and crappy genes. Poor people have a shorter life expectancy, higher incidence of cardiovascular disease, cancers, diabetes, etc. Living in poor housing conditions, in poor parts of the city and without enough money to support a healthy lifestyle is a breeding ground of illnesses, especially of the chronic (and expensive) variety.
Upstream interventions are needed to truly address healthcare issues. Now this is obviously not something that can be fixed overnight and doesn't really address the very real need of access to healthcare today, but prevention needs to be the focus going forward. The rising income gap and disappearance of the middle class are going to make any healthcare system completely unaffordable.
It's no secret that social and ecological determinants of health have a far greater influence on our health than lifestyle factors or you know bad luck and crappy genes. Poor people have a shorter life expectancy, higher incidence of cardiovascular disease, cancers, diabetes, etc. Living in poor housing conditions, in poor parts of the city and without enough money to support a healthy lifestyle is a breeding ground of illnesses, especially of the chronic (and expensive) variety.
Upstream interventions are needed to truly address healthcare issues. Now this is obviously not something that can be fixed overnight and doesn't really address the very real need of access to healthcare today, but prevention needs to be the focus going forward. The rising income gap and disappearance of the middle class are going to make any healthcare system completely unaffordable.
OP
OP
Clearly they should go get an overnight job at a call center and stop bitchin'
Of course not. Free doesn’t mean free. Free means someone else pays for you.
I don’t expect my kids to feel entitled to free anything. That’s one of the huge problems in this country
Nope, if someone is truly disabled and can’t work or elderly, then I think they should be taken care of. I wish it was all done by charity and not the government, but those that truly need the assistance “the least of these” should get help.
It’s the able bodied who take advantage of the system that need a little nudge into reality
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
I like so called Obamacare because it benefits me too. Mostly because of the state I live in, I have subsidized health insurance with no premiums and just copays. Until Trump and others take it away.
I'm a full time caregiver for my mother who is in hospice at home. With terminal cancer. So I need this insurance in case something happens to me. And to get any psychological care I might need too. It's the first time I've ever taken a benefit like this, and I won't apologize for it. And yes for being in my position of unpaid caregiver, I deserve it. Anyone who hasn't done it has zero idea how hard it is. Physically, emotionally, in every way.
I'm a full time caregiver for my mother who is in hospice at home. With terminal cancer. So I need this insurance in case something happens to me. And to get any psychological care I might need too. It's the first time I've ever taken a benefit like this, and I won't apologize for it. And yes for being in my position of unpaid caregiver, I deserve it. Anyone who hasn't done it has zero idea how hard it is. Physically, emotionally, in every way.
You certainly do like to jump to conclusions, don’t ya!
But if you’re able to work, and that’s what’s available , then yes, you should!!
- Status
Similar threads
- Sticky
