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Old 01-30-2018, 03:33 PM   #1021
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Everything is just so batshit crazy that it's hard to determine what deserves a deeper look, or what is just relatively normal political bullshit.
Agree.
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Old 01-30-2018, 03:37 PM   #1022
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I say give him enough rope to hang himself. This won't look good if obstruction of justice charges are ever brought.
Because of the unusual set of circumstances and given that Presidential powers are entangled in this whole thing, in this particular case I believe they're going to have to establish that Trump was trying to cover up for some other crime (e.g. a conspiracy involving the Russians) for obstruction to stick, at least in a criminal sense.

And if that's the case, that he really was in a criminal conspiracy involving the Russians, then yes, non-enforcement of the sanctions doesn't look very good. But in that case he'll have other things to worry about, like being impeached.

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Everything is just so batshit crazy that it's hard to determine what deserves a deeper look, or what is just relatively normal political bullshit. Trying to be better about that deeper look.
This is really a good point. Relatively normal politics, or even sort of underhanded dirty politics that are par for the course, are amplified because so much of what this President does is so over the top and sleazy. It can make distinguishing the signal from the noise difficult.

I do agree that are much easier targets for outrage than this.
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Old 01-30-2018, 08:33 PM   #1023
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I agree with looking at things on a deeper level and not giving in to hysteria just because that's what everyone on your side is doing, but in the scenarios that have been laid out, I think you have to look at 1) how self serving is/was it of the president to not enforce those laws; and 2) how dangerous is it to the nation.

Obama: DADT, federal laws in states that have legalized marijuana, and not deporting gay partners? Basically nil, on both counts. Pretty innocuous stuff.

Trump: Not imposing sanctions on Russia? Pretty bad on both counts.
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Old 01-30-2018, 08:46 PM   #1024
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I agree with looking at things on a deeper level and not giving in to hysteria just because that's what everyone on your side is doing, but in the scenarios that have been laid out, I think you have to look at 1) how self serving is/was it of the president to not enforce those laws; and 2) how dangerous is it to the nation.

Obama: DADT, federal laws in states that have legalized marijuana, and not deporting gay partners? Basically nil, on both counts. Pretty innocuous stuff.

Trump: Not imposing sanctions on Russia? Pretty bad on both counts.



He’s totally not acting like he has something to hide, either.
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Old 01-30-2018, 11:45 PM   #1025
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And he hasn’t ruined our standing in the world, or discredited the truth at all.

Everything will return to normal
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:20 AM   #1026
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And he hasn’t ruined our standing in the world, or discredited the truth at all.

Everything will return to normal
He has absolutely hurt our standing in the world, but yes, that's capable of bouncing back.

Despots around the world have adopted his fake news cry to justify their own bullshit and consolidate power - so yayyy for that.


Guy's a prick. Even in a relatively mundane speach he just have to toss some dog whistles to the base... MS-13!!! Stand for the flag!!!

Fuck this guy.
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:45 AM   #1027
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Comment was more sarcasm than anything.

I think we can rebound, assuming there isn’t some world war or other catastrophic event.

Tho part of me thinks the bar has been lowered so far that this is only the beginning of the stupid.
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:04 AM   #1028
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The notion that federal workers should be able to be terminated “at will” is genuinely terrifying, dictatorship stuff.

Job growth down? Fire the agency head and the author of that report. Poor attendance at an inauguration? Fire the national park service head and the analyst, the photographer and the writer. Any federal worker who engages in free speech - fire them. Dismiss an entire intelligence agency of 35k people and put in your own people if they fail to tell you what you want to hear? Why not.

Anyone with even a passing affinity for democracy should be part of The Resistance.
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:39 AM   #1029
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The notion that federal workers should be able to be terminated “at will” is genuinely terrifying, dictatorship stuff.

Job growth down? Fire the agency head and the author of that report. Poor attendance at an inauguration? Fire the national park service head and the analyst, the photographer and the writer. Any federal worker who engages in free speech - fire them. Dismiss an entire intelligence agency of 35k people and put in your own people if they fail to tell you what you want to hear? Why not.

Anyone with even a passing affinity for democracy should be part of The Resistance.
How he tossed it out there so nonchalantly, and all the minions got up and clapped...

He's calling for the ability to fire federal employees for any reason their boss deems fit. That should terrify everyone.
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:50 AM   #1030
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Ok, thanks for the response.
Thanks for the perpetual dismissiveness of views to the left of yours as in unison with the far right! Very productive dialogue. Good luck once again eschewing young people and the left in a doomed attempt to pick up two suburban Republican votes for every working class Democrat vote you lose! The problem last time around was clearly the left being traitorously picky and falling for Russian propaganda, and not employing electoral strategies that have failed over and over again. I apologize for not being on board and will be sure to drum up support for Joe fucking Kennedy or whatever.
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:54 AM   #1031
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US Politics V - now with 20% more echo chamber

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Thanks for the perpetual dismissiveness of views to the left of yours as in unison with the far right! Very productive dialogue. Good luck once again eschewing young people and the left in a doomed attempt to pick up two suburban Republican votes for every working class Democrat vote you lose! The problem last time around was clearly the left being traitorously picky and falling for Russian propaganda, and not employing electoral strategies that have failed over and over again. I apologize for not being on board and will be sure to drum up support for Joe fucking Kennedy or whatever.


I was being polite, because it’s clear you aren’t interested in discussion, but do let me know when the spaceship lands.
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:54 AM   #1032
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Having family members who work in the federal government, that’s fucking scary to hear. Once they start doing that, it’s all going downhill.
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Old 01-31-2018, 01:06 PM   #1033
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This is exactly the response I'm talking about. Leftists can say the most reasonable, most true things possible, and Democrats act like they're batshit.

it's amazing that you can actually type with your head that far up your own ass.
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Old 01-31-2018, 01:15 PM   #1034
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You two are truly incredible. The Republicans have all three houses, guys. Your strategy isn't working.
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Old 01-31-2018, 01:28 PM   #1035
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And the dems had all three houses from 2008-2010

In 2018, the Dems will take back at least one.

This is how the game plays out. It has more to do with people getting sick of one party, than anything with the policies.
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Old 01-31-2018, 01:57 PM   #1036
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it's amazing that you can actually type with your head that far up your own ass.

This is both unnecessarily rude and not helpful in the slightest to actually having any meaningful discussion.

Let’s do better than that, please.
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Old 01-31-2018, 02:13 PM   #1037
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You two are truly incredible. The Republicans have all three houses, guys. Your strategy isn't working.
claiming that the things you say are "the most reasonable, most true things possible" is fucking asinine and makes you sound *exactly* like trump. it turns people who might otherwise listen to what you have to say way the fuck off. i think irvine's characterization is a lot more on the mark than you care to admit.
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Old 01-31-2018, 02:22 PM   #1038
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I dunno. Peefsky doesn't come in at you like you're suggesting. Seems to me like he's entirely disaffected because he's tired of fitting the mould of some cliche character of politics that gets marginalized.

Here's the thing. We can all agree that Trump is an asshat whose whole schtick is made up and he's a con. But it seems we've lost the ability to discuss, for example, left-center vs left debate. It does seem as though each constituent thinks their opposition side represents the only side.
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Old 01-31-2018, 02:32 PM   #1039
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that's fair. i do have a knee jerk tendency sometimes to fire all barrels especially at things i think are overly pretentious. a claim that what you have to say is the "most true things possible" is pretty ridiculous, and my intent is always to attack the statement and not the person. but if i was too personal then i apologize to peef.
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Old 01-31-2018, 03:11 PM   #1040
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Don't be mean to peef, it makes me sad.
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