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Old 01-10-2018, 12:21 PM   #741
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Those are both already being automated.
As are call centers and factory jobs, in case anyone was wondering.
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Old 01-10-2018, 01:00 PM   #742
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As are call centers and factory jobs, in case anyone was wondering.
I work in a call center, along with hundreds of others. Were still kicking!
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:18 PM   #743
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If people don't like what they are psid, they are free to pursue other jobs/companies. No matter how much you want to, you can't FORCE companies to pay their employees more money. They will lose good talent if they don't pay. Especially if government subsidies weren't so incredibly easy to get.



The government doesn't exist to fix everything for you. Constitutionally, the federal government should exist only to protect the freedoms of its people. If you're angry about what Amazon pays it's employees, don't work there, and don't use their products


So then do you support free college or technical education so that people who want to increase their marketable skills can do that?
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:23 PM   #744
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Well obviously we disagree on this point, which is fine. The problem is when no responsibility is given to some, and additional responsibility is given to others, it gives no incentive for the first group to improve their circumstances. Many will out of their own hard work and determination, but unfortunately, many won't unless nudged a bit


So should people who are poor through no fault of their own, like someone with a chronic illness who can't work or a child, be provided with health insurance and health care by the government, or should they be left to die?
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:35 PM   #745
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I think an important point that often gets overlooked in the healthcare debate is that it's simply unsustainable with costs rising exponentially. What we need is to invest in public health/population health and focus on preventing illness and disease.

It's no secret that social and ecological determinants of health have a far greater influence on our health than lifestyle factors or you know bad luck and crappy genes. Poor people have a shorter life expectancy, higher incidence of cardiovascular disease, cancers, diabetes, etc. Living in poor housing conditions, in poor parts of the city and without enough money to support a healthy lifestyle is a breeding ground of illnesses, especially of the chronic (and expensive) variety.

Upstream interventions are needed to truly address healthcare issues. Now this is obviously not something that can be fixed overnight and doesn't really address the very real need of access to healthcare today, but prevention needs to be the focus going forward. The rising income gap and disappearance of the middle class are going to make any healthcare system completely unaffordable.
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:35 PM   #746
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Clearly they should go get an overnight job at a call center and stop bitchin'
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:36 PM   #747
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So then do you support free college or technical education so that people who want to increase their marketable skills can do that?
Of course not. Free doesn’t mean free. Free means someone else pays for you.

I don’t expect my kids to feel entitled to free anything. That’s one of the huge problems in this country
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:39 PM   #748
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So should people who are poor through no fault of their own, like someone with a chronic illness who can't work or a child, be provided with health insurance and health care by the government, or should they be left to die?
Nope, if someone is truly disabled and can’t work or elderly, then I think they should be taken care of. I wish it was all done by charity and not the government, but those that truly need the assistance “the least of these” should get help.

It’s the able bodied who take advantage of the system that need a little nudge into reality
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:40 PM   #749
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I like so called Obamacare because it benefits me too. Mostly because of the state I live in, I have subsidized health insurance with no premiums and just copays. Until Trump and others take it away.

I'm a full time caregiver for my mother who is in hospice at home. With terminal cancer. So I need this insurance in case something happens to me. And to get any psychological care I might need too. It's the first time I've ever taken a benefit like this, and I won't apologize for it. And yes for being in my position of unpaid caregiver, I deserve it. Anyone who hasn't done it has zero idea how hard it is. Physically, emotionally, in every way.
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:42 PM   #750
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Clearly they should go get an overnight job at a call center and stop bitchin'
You certainly do like to jump to conclusions, don’t ya!

But if you’re able to work, and that’s what’s available , then yes, you should!!
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:54 PM   #751
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So should people who are poor through no fault of their own, like someone with a chronic illness who can't work or a child, be provided with health insurance and health care by the government, or should they be left to die?
Personal responsibility!!!

They shouldn't have gotten sick, if you can't afford it, don't get sick.
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:04 PM   #752
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Of course not. Free doesn’t mean free. Free means someone else pays for you.



I don’t expect my kids to feel entitled to free anything. That’s one of the huge problems in this country


You want people to increase their skills so they can get better jobs, but if someone can't afford to go to school (because they work in a minimum wage job) to get those skills, your solution is to simply say "tough shit"?
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:06 PM   #753
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Back in my day, we didn't have health care. We rubbed dirt in our musket wounds and harvested leeches out of the river whenever the blood started going sour. Health care is a scheme by the reds to drain hard-working farmers of their last dime.

And don't even get me started on unions! Laborers used to have self-respect.
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:09 PM   #754
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Nope, if someone is truly disabled and can’t work or elderly, then I think they should be taken care of. I wish it was all done by charity and not the government, but those that truly need the assistance “the least of these” should get help.



It’s the able bodied who take advantage of the system that need a little nudge into reality

What about someone's who's able-bodied and then gets in an accident or gets sick? If they don't have insurance, because they weren't forced to purchase it, what happens to them? If we provide care for them then they're free loading off everyone because they didn't pay insurance at all before they got sick. But, if they're forced to purchase insurance so that they're insured when they get sick it's an affront to freedom?

Also, the fact that you keep bringing up the people who supposedly take advantage of the system is telling. People need healthcare. People who seek care aren't taking advantage of the system.
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:10 PM   #755
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You certainly do like to jump to conclusions, don’t ya!



But if you’re able to work, and that’s what’s available , then yes, you should!!


People who are unemployed shouldn't die because they can't afford healthcare.
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:20 PM   #756
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People who are unemployed shouldn't die because they can't afford healthcare.


To add to that: People who seek emergency services shouldn't be cut from access to credit and branded financially untrustworthy for nearly a decade because they can't afford healthcare at a price they had no choice but to accept.
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:26 PM   #757
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Nope, if someone is truly disabled and can’t work or elderly, then I think they should be taken care of. I wish it was all done by charity and not the government, but those that truly need the assistance “the least of these” should get help.
Charity is great, but it can only go so far. For people who have lengthy healthcare concerns, they can't expect to rely solely on charity forever.

And I find it funny that relying on charity isn't an entitlement, but relying on government aid is. You do know that people can take advantage of charities, too, right, the way they can with the government?

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It’s the able bodied who take advantage of the system that need a little nudge into reality
This discussion now has me curious to see actual statistics of just how common this whole "taking advantage of the system" thing really is. I frankly honestly don't know how people who would take advantage manage to do so in the first place. When my parents had to file for government assistance they went through a shitload of red tape to even be considered for it, let alone get it. And I imagine that's the case for the vast majority of people who ask for government aid, too.

Again, yes, there are people who can and do take advantage of the system, but I get the feeling this whole "people scamming the system" thing is more often than not a boogeyman tactic that people like to use.

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I don’t expect my kids to feel entitled to free anything. That’s one of the huge problems in this country
Wanting to be able to afford to go to the doctor, and wanting to go without going broke, to take care of one's health problems is not being entitled. Please stop with that word already.
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:43 PM   #758
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In principle, charity... "volunteerism," a core fundamental of a libertarian ideology, is fantastic. Much like in communism you end up finding that it opens the door to anti-communism through authoritarianism, a basis of volunteerism leads to greed. Or, what's a worse prospect, sometimes you find that government entities that get replaced in a volunteerism model simply get replaced by businesses in a lateral move (except the businesses aren't people in most cases, and only function to take your money).

There are principles in the libertarian philosophy that are wonderful. Relying on volunteerism for things where greed can walk through the front door... nonsense.

Now, sometimes decentralization is the most powerful tool. Healthcare? No.
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:54 PM   #759
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I wonder when we'll find out that there is no perfect system, and that the answer is an ever changing combination of all systems based on circumstances
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:20 PM   #760
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To this point? No one. The world right now is pay-to-play. At least there are some mechanisms for fighting back against it via the government. Let's start there. How about fighting voter suppression? Make gerrymandering illegal, increase access to voter registration, make election days holidays. Baby steps.
Elections being on a weekend day makes sense to me. I'm sure there's a few good reasons not to, but I think it would help boost turnout overall if that's the goal.
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