US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread - Part Catorce!

[martha]

Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
It's depressing that Steve King holds elective office.

But not surprising.

[deep]

Clinton continues to draw many black voters, who sometimes have to defend their choice.

"She has the most experience," said Elexis Griffin, a black worker at a law office who attended a Clinton fundraiser in Canton, Ohio. "Obama has only been in the Senate three years. I'm not anti-Barack. I'm just pro-Hillary."

Griffin, who is 25 and considering law school, said, "I sit here almost every single day and hear debating: Hillary or Obama? My closest friends, I have very much influenced their vote for Hillary. They accuse me of being against the social movement. And I accuse them of voting with their emotions and not looking at the facts."

Obama's Black Support Shows Its Limits

[deep]

this could be the best solution

Fla. Mail-In Primary Plan Gains Traction

By JOHN DUNBAR – 5 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — A consensus began to emerge Sunday that the best way to give Florida's Democrats a voice in electing a candidate for president lies with the U.S. Postal Service.

The Democratic National Committee stripped Florida and Michigan of all their convention delegates — a total of 313 — for holding their primaries too early, making both contests meaningless. New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton won both states, but no delegates. Her rival, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, did not appear on Michigan's ballot.

But the disqualification of Florida and Michigan has created a headache for the Democratic party due to the unexpected closeness of the race between Obama and Clinton. Officials from both states are trying to figure out how best to resolve the issue before the national convention in August.

DNC Chairman Howard Dean said a mail-in primary is "actually a very good process."

"Every voter gets a ballot in the mail," the former Vermont governor said on CBS's "Face the Nation." "It's comprehensive, you get to vote if you're in Iraq or in a nursing home. It's not a bad way to do this."

As for who pays, Dean said, "That is a problem," reiterating that the party needs its money for the general election campaign against Republican John McCain.

He also ruled out the state of Florida, where Republican Gov. Charlie Crist has nixed the idea. Dean suggested the state Democratic party might foot the bill. Florida's political parties, unlike the DNC, can accept unlimited contributions.

Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., supports the mail-in solution, comparing it to an absentee ballot process. He also pinned his hopes on the state party to pay for it.

"Since Governor Dean has said he's not going to do it in the DNC, the Florida Democratic Party's going to have to go out and raise the money," he said. "We're looking at about $6 million."

Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., appeared to be amenable to a mail-in solution for his state, though with less enthusiasm.

Speaking on ABC's "This Week," Levin said doing the election again would be against state law. "That can't be changed, and that can't be paid for," he said. Levin also said caucuses would be difficult, with 500 potential sites.

"The one possibility would be some kind of a mail-in caucus," he said. "But there's some real problems with that, too. Not just cost, but the security issue. How do you make sure that hundreds of thousands, perhaps a million or more ballots can be properly counted and that duplicate ballots can be avoided?"

Obama currently has more delegates than Clinton, but that could be eclipsed if Clinton were to win a large enough portion of Florida and Michigan's delegates.

[deep]

the Obama

campaign will have to strap up

and go head on

with Hillary

they get a second chance in Florida

to compete and earn the nomination

same goes for Michigan

let the voters of the those States

have their say

no cauci

just one voter one ballot.


and lets see who can get to 2025!

[deep]

The executive director of FairVote, a nonpartisan advocacy group, Robert Richie, said it would be unfair to seat the delegations from Florida and Michigan based on the January vote, because many voters stayed home because they thought their votes wouldn't count.

Yesterday, the Associated Press reported that a consensus was emerging that the best way to give Florida Democrats a say in selecting the party's presidential candidate was to hold a mail-in primary.


State Senator Bill Perkins, a Democrat of Harlem who is supporting Mr. Obama, said he thinks that holding a re-vote in Florida could send the party down "a slippery slope," because it would give the states that broke the party's rules another opportunity to participate in the nomination process.

"It's not fair that those who broke the rules are the ones who are going to get the advantage," he said.

Obama's people will not support a new election in Mich and Florida?

Do they really have the most delegates or even popular votes?

[Vincent Vega]

One person is singular, not plural.

[deep]

Time will tell
is it is one person

or Obama's people

that will or will not support

letting the Dems in Florida and Michigan mail in their votes for him or Hillary.


And I do believe voting at this stage or even as late as June is more favorable to Obama than when the earlier voting occurred.

[phillyfan26]

I'm an Obama supporter.

I think Florida and Michigan should redo their primaries/caucauses and get counted. Simple as that.

[deep]

it will certainly clarify a lot

and most likely carry one of them to 2025!

[kellyahern]

Originally posted by phillyfan26
I'm an Obama supporter.

I think Florida and Michigan should redo their primaries/caucauses and get counted. Simple as that.

Me too. I don't think it's fair to count them as is, but a redo is fair.

[MrsSpringsteen]

I can't believe she, of all people, would say such things. And defend them. And the way she defends them doesn't even jive with what she said the first time.

dailybreeze.com

Ferraro defends controversial comments on Barack Obama
By Gene Maddaus Staff Writer
Article Launched: 03/11/2008

Barack Obama and his camp have taken exception to comments made by Geraldine Ferraro.

Former vice presidential candidate Geraldine Ferraro today defended a remark she made to the Daily Breeze last week, in which she suggested that Sen. Barack Obama would not be where he is if he were white.

In an interview with the Breeze, Ferraro said, "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman (of any color), he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."

The comment was picked up by political blogs and cable news shows across the country. The Obama campaign held a conference call today to denounce the remark, and Obama surrogates urged Sen. Hillary Clinton to repudiate it.

In a follow-up interview today, Ferraro said her company had been deluged with vicious e-mail messages accusing her of racism.

But far from backing off from her initial remark, Ferraro defended it and elaborated on it.

"Any time anybody does anything that in any way pulls this campaign down and says let's address reality and the problems we're facing in this world, you're accused of being racist, so you have to shut up," Ferraro said. "Racism works in two different directions. I really think they're attacking me because I'm white. How's that?"

Susan Rice, an Obama adviser, called on Clinton to repudiate the remark in an appearance today on MSNBC.

"That is a really outrageous and offensive comment," Rice said. "I think if Sen. Clinton is serious about putting an end to statements that have racial implications, that diminish Barack Obama because he's an African-American man, then she ought to really repudiate this comment, and make it clear there is no place in her campaign for people who say this kind of thing."

Ferraro has held one fund-raiser for Clinton.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Clinton distanced herself from Ferraro's initial remark.

"I do not agree with that," she said. "It is regrettable that any of our supporters on both sides, because we've both had that experience, say things that kind of veer off into the personal. We ought to keep this on the issues."

Ferraro, who was the Democratic nominee for vice president in 1984, spoke to the Breeze in advance of an appearance at the Armstrong Theatre in Torrance on Sunday night. The comment initially ran on D6 of the newspaper Friday, but drew significant attention after the story was picked up by Raw Story and other online news outlets.

Ferraro said she was simply stating an obvious truth, as seen in exit polls that show Obama taking as much as 80 percent of the black vote in the Democratic primaries.

"In all honesty, do you think that if he were a white male, there would be a reason for the black community to get excited for a historic first?" Ferraro said. "Am I pointing out something that doesn't exist?"

Obama campaign manager David Axelrod called Ferraro's comments part of an "insidious pattern" of remarks from Clinton supporters that have drawn attention to Obama's race.

"When you wink and nod at offensive statements, you're really sending a signal to your supporters that anything goes," Axelrod said, according to ABC News.

Ferraro said the Clinton campaign cannot fire her because she is not an adviser.

"It's impossible to fire somebody who's not involved with it," she said.

She also said she is familiar with Axelrod from his work for minority candidates in New York.

"He knows damn well that the best thing to do in a situation like this is to come back and hit with race," Ferraro said, adding that the response is a sign that the Obama campaign is "worried" about the first-term senator's lack of experience.

Ferraro said she was not trying to diminish Obama's candidacy, and acknowledged up front that she would not have been the vice presidential nominee in 1984 if she had been a man.

But she also echoed remarks of feminist leaders like Gloria Steinem, who argued in the New York Times that Obama would not have succeeded if he were a woman because gender is "the most restricting force in American life."

"Sexism is a bigger problem," Ferraro argued. "It's OK to be sexist in some people's minds. It's not OK to be racist."

[martha]

I was wondering last night. Is this the political race that finally brings race and sex out into the open? Will we pop the race and sex pimples and finally start cleaning them out so we can get on with it and deal with actual issues later on?

I do think Ferraro has a point. Our country is obsessed with race and sex. We have yet to recover from our past histories with racism and sexism, so it's not surprising that a presidential race that includes a woman and a black man running against each other should bring out these kinds of comments. Each group feels that it's finally their shot, and how dare the other group try to take that away.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Originally posted by martha


I do think Ferraro has a point. Our country is obsessed with race and sex. We have yet to recover from our past histories with racism and sexism, so it's not surprising that a presidential race that includes a woman and a black man running against each other should bring out these kinds of comments. Each group feels that it's finally their shot, and how dare the other group try to take that away.

She has a point the way you said it. The way she said it, no-and she didn't convey the same thing in what she said.

I agree that, in some circles and in some geographic areas as a generality (there are always exceptions), it's more acceptable to be sexist. But I could never state absolutely and conclusively that gender is a more restricting force simply because I have always been white- so how dare I go there, how dare I compare the two?

I hate to see such a "competition", we are all in it together and this election with an African American man and a woman benefits all who have been discriminated against. And I happen to believe it will benefit this country in the long run, either way.

To have a dialogue about race and gender in this country is very important, but not in the way she started it. That isn't constructive and it's a negative for Senator Clinton.

[sulawesigirl4]

I can't really believe that Ferraro not only said what she said but that she's now claiming that she's the target of discrimination because she's white. She brings race into it and when she gets called on it, she has the audacity to say it's the other guy's fault? wow. And that the Clinton campaign only "regrets" her comments but has not fired her or asked her to remove herself from the campaign. Truly, I am beyond disgusted with the levels to which they're willing to stoop. Nod and wink. Fearmongering 3am ads. Obama's not Muslim "as far as I know". The candidate from the opposition party is more qualified than a fellow Democrat. Obama is not "ready" to be CiC but he's qualified enough to be Hillary's VP (cuz it's not insulting at all to tell the guy running in front of you that you might condescend to allow him to be your second) And now this? Just unbelievable. This is one Democrat that has argued vociferously for Hillary amongst friends and family. I would have been very happy to vote for her. Now I am so disgusted that there is no way that I could possibly do so. This may be politics as usual, but I want no part of it.

[verte76]

I agree, it's disgusting.

[martha]

Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
Now I am so disgusted that there is no way that I could possibly do so.

Even if that means voting for McCain?

[MrsSpringsteen]

She was on GMA this morning, there is video of her interview here

http://abcnews.go.com/gma

[BVS]

Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
She was on GMA this morning, there is video of her interview here

http://abcnews.go.com/gma

She's quite jumpy isn't she, how many times did she cut her off?

[MrsSpringsteen]

You mean Ferraro cut Diane off? I thought Diane didn't give her much of a chance to speak at times. Or should I say to try to dig herself out of the hole.

politico.com

March 11, 2008

A Ferraro flashback

"If Jesse Jackson were not black, he wouldn't be in the race," she said.

Really. The cite is an April 15, 1988 Washington Post story (byline: Howard Kurtz), available only on Nexis.

Here's the full context:

Placid of demeanor but pointed in his rhetoric, Jackson struck out repeatedly today against those who suggest his race has been an asset in the campaign. President Reagan suggested Tuesday that people don't ask Jackson tough questions because of his race. And former representative Geraldine A. Ferraro (D-N.Y.) said Wednesday that because of his "radical" views, "if Jesse Jackson were not black, he wouldn't be in the race."

Asked about this at a campaign stop in Buffalo, Jackson at first seemed ready to pounce fiercely on his critics. But then he stopped, took a breath, and said quietly, "Millions of Americans have a point of view different from" Ferraro's.

Discussing the same point in Washington, Jackson said, "We campaigned across the South . . . without a single catcall or boo. It was not until we got North to New York that we began to hear this from Koch, President Reagan and then Mrs. Ferraro . . . . Some people are making hysteria while I'm making history."

[MrsSpringsteen]

time.com

Wednesday, Mar. 12, 2008
Obama Win Defined By Race
By Michael Duffy

Illinois Senator Barack Obama easily captured a majority of Mississippi's 33 Democratic delegates Tuesday as his one-on-one battle with Hillary Clinton race verged once again on deeper racial turmoil. With 90% of all precincts reporting, Obama led Clinton in Misissippi by a margin of nearly three to two.

Obama's win — his second in four days — came at the end of a day of cross-campaign, finger-pointing following comments by the party's 1984 Vice Presidential nominee, Geraldine Ferraro, a Clinton supporter who suggested that Obama's front-runner status owed more to his race than his talent or effort. Obama campaign strategist David Axelrod accused the Clinton campaign of quietly countenancing such divisive comments; later in the day, Hillary Clinton called Ferraro's comments "regrettable." Obama called Ferraro's remarks "absurd."

The steady erosion in relations between the Obama and Clinton camps — less than a week has passed since Obama's foreign policy adviser (and TIME columnist) Samatha Power called Clinton "a monster" — was almost certainly one reason why House Speaker Nancy Pelosi declared on Tuesday that the chances of a joint ticket between the two Democrats to now be impossible.

Broken down, the Mississippi vote had an unmistakable racial descant — and unmistakable limits for Obama. Exit polls revealed once again an emerging racial divide that has opened in the Democratic party between whites who tend by healthy margins to favor Clinton and blacks who overwhelmingly favor Obama. African Americans comprised nearly half of the Democratic vote in Mississippi — and 90% of those voters, according to exit polls, pulled the lever for Obama, his strongest showing yet among African Americans. But Obama did poorly among whites, winning only 30%, according to exit polls. While this split was visible in Alabama and the border state of Tennessee earlier this year, it was visible in Ohio's primary last week, too.

Mississippi is one of the most reliably Republican states in presidential elections. Only a Democrat who could win 35 to 40% of the white vote, while holding onto a lopsided percentage of blacks, could put the state in play in a head to head match with a Republican in the fall. Obama's 30% showing in the primary against Clinton falls short of that target.

Nonetheless, the win extends Obama's lead over Clinton in delegates by a net seven or eight delegates — a small number overall but important nonetheless. Hard as it is for a candidate to build a lead in a primary system ruled by a system of proportional allocation, it is even harder to catch up once you fall behind.

The Mississippi results underscored another recurring factor in the 2008 campaign. Democratic turnout, which was barely more than 75,000 in the 2004 primary, on Tuesday totaled more than four times that number. "I am grateful to the people of Mississippi for joining the millions of Americans from every corner of the country who have chosen to turn the page on the failed politics of the past and embrace our movement for change," Obama said Tuesday night.