They Have Awakened The Sleeping Giant, Part 2

[80sU2isBest]

Miami Herald

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Published Wednesday, September 12, 2001
Headline: We'll go forward from this moment

It's my job to have something to say.
They pay me to provide words that help make sense of that
which troubles the American soul. But in this moment of airless
shock when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing
I can find to say, the only words that seem to fit, must be
addressed to the unknown author of this suffering.
You monster. You beast. You unspeakable bastard.
What lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack
on our World Trade Center, our Pentagon, us? What was it you
hoped we would learn? Whatever it was, please know that you
failed.
Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause.
Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve.
Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together.
Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome
family, a family rent by racial, social, political and class
division, but a family nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes,
capable of expending tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural
minutiae -- a singer's revealing dress, a ball team's misfortune,
a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready
availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of
that, we walk through life with a certain sense of blithe
entitlement. We are fundamentally decent, though -- peace-loving
and compassionate. We struggle to know the right thing and to do
it. And we are, the overwhelming majority of us, people of faith,
believers in a just and loving God.
Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or all of this
makes us weak. You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed,
we are strong in ways that cannot be measured by arsenals.
IN PAIN
Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock.
We're still grappling with the unreality of the awful thing
you did, still working to make ourselves understand that this
isn't a special effect from some Hollywood blockbuster, isn't
the plot development from a Tom Clancy novel. Both in terms of
the awful scope of their ambition and the probable final
death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts
of terrorism in the history of the United States and, probably,
the history of the world. You've bloodied us as we have never
been bloodied before.
But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and
making us fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its
bitter sorrow the last time anyone hit us this hard, the last
time anyone brought us such abrupt and monumental pain. When
roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in our force.
When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any
suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice.
I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people,
as you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes
me to tremble with dread of the future.
In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation,
fingers pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen
and what can be done to prevent it from happening again. There will
be heightened security, misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms.
We'll go forward from this moment sobered, chastened, sad.
But determined, too. Unimaginably determined.
THE STEEL IN US
You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That
aspect of our character is seldom understood by people who
don't know us well. On this day, the family's bickering is
put on hold.
As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and
as Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish.
So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs
to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of
your hatred. If that's the case, consider the message received.
And take this message in exchange: You don't know my people.
You don't know what we're capable of. You don't know what you just
started.
But you're about to learn.

[Johnny Swallow]

[pub crawler]

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:

And take this message in exchange: You don't know my people.
You don't know what we're capable of. You don't know what you just
started.
But you're about to learn.

Um, okay... so the author is saying we're going to go kick some ass?? We're going to go bludgeon somebody? Tit for tat? There are a lot of Americans, probably millions of Americans, like me, who don't feel that way at all.

This article only serves to show exactly what's wrong with Nationalism.

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by pub crawler:
Um, okay... so the author is saying we're going to go kick some ass?? We're going to go bludgeon somebody? Tit for tat? There are a lot of Americans, probably millions of Americans, like me, who don't feel that way at all.
This article only serves to show exactly what's wrong with Nationalism.

Yes, we're gonna kick some ass. We're gonna kick the ass of the monsters who planned this. And that, pub crawler, is a good thing. Believe me, if we don't whip them now, they will whip us time after time after again. If you think we should not take our revenge and bring these monsters down, I have to wonder what you think we should do about it? Slap them on the hand?

[pub crawler]

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:

If you think we should not take our revenge and bring these monsters down, I have to wonder what you think we should do about it? Slap them on the hand?

I think we should find the perpetrators. I think we should be 100% sure we've got the right people before we take action. I think the people who plotted this assault should be brought to justice. That could mean jail time. It doesn't have to mean bombing the hell out of some Middle-Eastern country and killing innocent civilians. It shouldn't mean killing innocents. Of course, I don't believe in killing anybody. Life imprisonment will do.

I know a lot of Americans' gut reaction is to take an eye for an eye, all in the name of God. Yet, as we both know, an "eye for an eye" is not a Christian concept. The people who plotted and carried out Tuesday's devastation believe in "an eye for an eye." They believe in "revenge." They haven't listened closely enough to Christ.

Revenge is not the proper remedy. Justice is.

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by pub crawler:
I think we should find the perpetrators. I think we should be 100% sure we've got the right people before we take action. I think the people who plotted this assault should be brought to justice. That could mean jail time. It doesn't have to mean bombing the hell out of some Middle-Eastern country and killing innocent civilians. It shouldn't mean killing innocents. Of course, I don't believe in killing anybody. Life imprisonment will do.
I know a lot of Americans' gut reaction is to take an eye for an eye, all in the name of God. Yet, as we both know, an "eye for an eye" is not a Christian concept. The people who plotted and carried out Tuesday's devastation believe in "an eye for an eye." They believe in "revenge." They haven't listened closely enough to Christ.
Revenge is not the proper remedy. Justice is.

In this case, revenge is the same as justice. Justice is bringing the perpetrators to punsihment. If that means "bombing the hell out of them", then that's what we need to do. "An eye for an eye" is not about war. It is about personal relationships. Do you think Bin Laden is the only one who is capable of this or willing to do it? Do you think throwing him in jail will accomplish one damn thing? If so, you need to take a closer look at reality. If we do not totally annihalate these terrorist groups, they will live to do this again and again and again, and one day, when a terrorist group has accomplished nuclear capability, they will launch it against what they call "The Great Satan", and you will look up in the sky and see a great nuclear blast headed straight for you. Then, you will say "why oh why didn't we do something about this before these madmen had this capability". If you think that arresting Bin Laden will solve this problem, you need to wake up.

[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 09-13-2001).]

[Salome]

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
In this case, revenge is the same as justice.

ehhh, no it isn't

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Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by Salome:

ehhh, no it isn't

Then tell me, what is revenge in this case? what is justice?

[Anthony]

I agree with 80'sU2IsBest. Not only does America deserve justice (I will not call it petty revenge, because I don't think it is) but it should move ahead with such a campaign that will only protect the world from such terrorism.

Ant.

[Miss MacPhisto]

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
If we do not totally annihalate these terrorist groups, they will live to do this again and again and again, and one day, when a terrorist group has accomplished nuclear capability, they will launch it against what they call "The Great Satan", and you will look up in the sky and see a great nuclear blast headed straight for you. Then, you will say "why oh why didn't we do something about this before these madmen had this capability".

Heck, I and many others are thinking that NOW!!!!!!!!!



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Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...

"Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert

[pub crawler]

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
Then tell me, what is revenge in this case? what is justice?

Revenge is our intent to wreak equal or worse havoc on whomever the terrorists turn out to be.

Many Americans (including a good number of Interferencers) want to see heads roll. No, actually many Americans want to see heads burn. That is revenge, and it's barbarism.

Justice would be served by bringing the perpertrators to trial in a court of law, but if that isn't possible I think justice would be served if we imposed sanctions against the country of which the
perpetrator(s) are citizens. That's one option. There are others.

This of course supposes that the perpetrators are from a foreign land, which at this point appears to be the case. (According to CNN, Colin Powell "[has] identified [Osama] bin Laden as the 'primary suspect.'" in the attack)

On another note, 80's, you can dismiss the "eye for an eye" verse all you want, but the fact is, it's used as justification for revenge against people groups all the time. In fact, I have to laugh a little because as I'm typing this I'm listening to a talk show on the radio and, regarding the current political situation and tragedy, some caller just now said, and I quote, "It's an eye for an eye, we ought to fly a big airliner into a building in the Middle East..." So, yes, 80's, that verse is (mis)used in the context of taking revenge on people groups, and I've heard it misused that way frequently.

[pub crawler]

Originally posted by Spiral_Staircase:
pub crawler, I see what you're saying, but unfortunately we can't go and arrest those who are are responsible for this.

Spiral, If the perpetrator turns out to be a man like Osama bin Laden, then yes, I would agree that's it's unlikely we'll be able to capture him.

But my point is, tearing his eyeballs out is not going to make anyone's life better. And if you're going to go tear bin Laden's eyeballs out, please do not tell me you're going to do it in the name of Jesus.

That's one of the things that really baffles me, Spiral, is that so many of these Americans who want to rip Osama bin Laden's eyes out, light a rubber tire on fire and place it around his neck, and pour acid down his throat -- so many of these people will be sitting in church next Sunday and telling the person sitting next to them that Jesus loves them. I find that perplexing, to say the least.

[pub crawler]

Originally posted by Anthony:
I agree with 80'sU2IsBest. Not only does America deserve justice (I will not call it petty revenge, because I don't think it is) but it should move ahead with such a campaign that will only protect the world from such terrorism.

Ant.

Anthony, no violent campaign will cure violence.

It's interesting that people in their frustration pontificate and spew angry verbiage about the cycle of violence in the Middle East and yet these very same people propose to cure this cycle of violence with.... violence.

[bonoman]

I cant believe what i am hearing. Arrest them? That is ubsurd. This isnt some petty attack. This is war.

You cant arrest a country nor can you arrest groups of thousdans of people. If we arrest Bin Laden his faction kills more of our people.

How can we stop terrorists with sanctions?

Bin laden has his hand on hundreds and hundreds of millions of dolars. You are talking about not wanting to hurt inncoet ppl but you want sanctions on countries that are run by religious org. and are'nt a democracy. Who would you be hurting there. Only the people.

Pub crawler, your lax attitude is very surprising. I thought the world would learn from its mistakes. How did Hilter become so powerful? We didnt take him seriously until he had half od Europe in his hands. The Talibans main objective is to have to whole world under its rule. They think thats what their God wants. we need to stop terrorism once and for all. We need to put the fear of God into them. So when the tought of attacking anyone comes cross their minds let them be reminded of the reaction of the world when this happened.



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Running to Stand Still-"you gotta cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice."

"we're not burning out we're burning up...we're the loudest folk band in the world!"-Bono

[Spiral_Staircase]

pub crawler, I see what you're saying, but unfortunately we can't go and arrest those who are are responsible for this. When you're talking about thousands of armed men ready to die for their cause, you can't walk in and slap cuffs on them and drag them into a court room. They will shoot you. If these people would turn themselves in, maybe the killing could stop, but they won't. Thus, the only way we can prevent them from doing this again in six months it to attack them and likely kill them in a war-like scenario. It's absolutely horrible, but it's reality.

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by pub crawler:
Many Americans (including a good number of Interferencers) want to see heads roll. No, actually many Americans want to see heads burn. That is revenge, and it's barbarism.

It's interesting that people in their frustration pontificate and spew angry verbiage about the cycle of violence in the Middle East and yet these very same people propose to cure this cycle of violence with.... violence.

How dare you insult the people of this nation (many of whom have lost loved ones) at a time like this by calling them "barbarous" and using negative words like "pontificate" and "spew". It's been less than a week, man! Are you trying to tell me that you don't understand America's (and especially the victims' families) desire to see "heads roll" or "heads burn"!! How in the HELL can you be so insensitive? You come on here and insult the people of this country, all the while saying "Violence is not the answer, violence is not the answer". Well, open your eyes, blind man. Your perfect world doesn't exist. IT HASN"T SINCE ADAM AND EVE ATE THE APPLE! Terrorism is a disease that must be completely cured. A bandaid will not help. If terrorist groups are not completely destroyed and prevented from happening again, this kind of monstrosity will happen again and again and again. I am tired of you.

[pub crawler]

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
How dare you insult the people of this nation (many of whom have lost loved ones) at a time like this by calling them "barbarous" and using negative words like "pontificate" and "spew". It's been less than a week, man! Are you trying to tell me that you don't understand America's (and especially the victims' families) desire to see "heads roll" or "heads burn"!! How in the HELL can you be so insensitive? You come on here and insult the people of this country, all the while saying "Violence is not the answer, violence is not the answer". Well, open your eyes, blind man. Your perfect world doesn't exist. IT HASN"T SINCE ADAM AND EVE ATE THE APPLE! Terrorism is a disease that must be completely cured. A bandaid will not help. If terrorist groups are not completely destroyed and prevented from happening again, this kind of monstrosity will happen again and again and again. I am tired of you.

80's, that's one of your favorite comebacks -- that I've insulted you, or gun-owners or Evangelical Christians. This time I've apparently insulted "the people of this Nation."

Funny, you then proceed to insult me in your post.

You've used the "insult" accusation many times when responding to me but the fact is you just can't deal with someone who's views are so radically different and diametrically opposed to yours. You and I are cosmos apart in our thinking, there's no doubt about that.

You can't stand me because I'm one person to whom you can't use another one of your favorite lines, which goes something like this: "[Name of Interferencer you've been arguing with], despite our differences, I would bet that we agree about more things than we disagree.."

When you decide to grow up maybe we discuss the issues, but I'm not holding my breath.

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by pub crawler:
Funny, you then proceed to insult me in your post.

You've used the "insult" accusation many times when responding to me but the fact is you just can't deal with someone who's views are so radically different and diametrically opposed to yours. You and I are cosmos apart in our thinking, there's no doubt about that.

When you decide to grow up maybe we discuss the issues, but I'm not holding my breath.

I called you "blind man" - is that the insult you're talking about? How about "insensitive"? If those are insults, I'll admit to it. If you think my point was just some simple little insult here, you're wrong. I was talking about someone who insults people who have been through utter and complete hell at the hands of madmen. If you can't open your heart and understand people's rage, then there's something wrong. And for Heaven's sake, don't be so self righteous and judge them over it! My insult to you was nothing on the scale of how you have insulted those in mourning who understandably want revenge.
And by the way, I get along decently with many people I disagree with. You and Matthew_Page were the only ones I completely lashed out at. And MatthewPage didn't insult a grieving people, he just made me mad. My anger at him may have been over the top and unjustified, but not my disgust with you.

[bonoman]

Originally posted by Hitman:
THAT IS THE MOST ABSURD COMMENT EVER POSTED ON THIS WEBSITE.

I would have to totally agree with this comment!!!

And your right 80's. This isnt some vigilanty witch hunt the US is on it is war and if we want these acts to end we must act with complete and uder percision and knock out any terroist regiems in the world!




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Running to Stand Still-"you gotta cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice."

"we're not burning out we're burning up...we're the loudest folk band in the world!"-Bono

[Anthony]

'Anthony, no violent campaign will cure violence.'

How can you say that? Ill tell you what IS interesting, seeing how many idealists are still around. The 21st century is NO time for idealism, and the belief that violence doesn't solve anything is not only idealistic but foolish. Are you saying that the second world war stopped because we all stood around and talked about peace? Of course not, it ended because nuclear bombs were dropped, nations were blasted into oblivion and people were slaughtered. Violence.
Violence can end violence. THere is always a price for peace. You must agree.

Ant.