Same Sex Marriage Thread - Part III

[Galeongirl]

https://twitter.com/stevewilsonap/st...303939/photo/1


Just saw this online, pretty snazzy new outfit for the German Olympic team.

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by Diemen

Regarding your request, I fail to see the point in it since same sex marriage is in no way analogous to affirmative action. And w/r/t the 14th amendment, I'm sure the core issue you're arguing is this:



The only way I can see same sex marriage coming into conflict with this is if one believes that homosexuality is a choice instead of an innate characteristic of one's being. Because if you agree that homosexuality is just as innate to a gay man as heterosexuality is to a straight man, then I fail to see how "nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws" is anything but an argument in favor of same sex marriage, not against.

And if you think homosexuality is a choice, well...

How do you defend affirmative action when it leads to discrimination was my point.
There is, or was anyway, an answer and it is the same answer that allows me to provide equal protection to gays in the form of civil unions and other recognitions without redefining marriage. It also allows me, the big advocate of the Free Exercise Claus of the 1st Amendment, to discriminate against Mormons and Muslims that may wish to have polygamous marriages in this country.

[Diemen]

And again, it's not an analogous comparison because same sex marriage doesn't lead to discrimination.

Similarly, trying to defend discrimination against SSM by saying we discriminate against polygamy is not analogous. SSM is not polygamy, nor does it introduce any of the tricky legal issues polygamy does.

[martha]

Originally Posted by INDY500

There is, or was anyway, an answer and it is the same answer that allows me to provide equal protection to gays in the form of civil unions and other recognitions without redefining marriage.

Exactly. Separate, but equal.

How dare they?

[martha]

Originally Posted by Galeongirl

Yet what I've gotten here sofar is when I'm asking any of the protesters why they think I cannot get married, why they think I am unnatural, I get no response.

Still no direct response yet?

[PhilsFan]

Lawmakers Consider Preventing ALL Marriage In Oklahoma - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

Look at this fucking Zac Efron wannabe.

[Galeongirl]

Originally Posted by martha

Still no direct response yet?

Nope.

And am I correct in interpreting that INDY feels he needs to be protected from the gays and people who want to redefine marriage?

[INDY500]

But SSM is analogous to racial segregation.

Righttttt.

What is analogous is social engineering through the law. It can be through drug laws for example or marriage laws. Conservatives wish to promote the nuclear family standard as ideal recognizing its role in stabilizing society, promoting self-reliance and raising prodigy while reflecting the Judeo-Christian values of Western culture.
The Left social engineers through the oppression of bigger government (social justice, income redistribution, racial quotes) and newly discovered "rights" for its own utopian vision.

The right reforms while the left radically changes.

[martha]

Diatribes with lots of indignation and accusations, but no direct response.

Maybe there isn't a direct response?

[PhilsFan]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Conservatives wish to promote the nuclear family standard as ideal recognizing its role in stabilizing society, promoting self-reliance and raising prodigy while reflecting the Judeo-Christian values of Western culture.

How is this not social engineering?

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by INDY500

But SSM is analogous to racial segregation.

Righttttt.

What is analogous is social engineering through the law. It can be through drug laws for example or marriage laws. Conservatives wish to promote the nuclear family standard as ideal recognizing its role in stabilizing society, promoting self-reliance and raising prodigy while reflecting the Judeo-Christian values of Western culture.
The Left social engineers through the oppression of bigger government (social justice, income redistribution, racial quotes) and newly discovered "rights" for its own utopian vision.

The right reforms while the left radically changes.

Promoting social justice is oppression? Oh boy...

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by INDY500

But SSM is analogous to racial segregation.

Righttttt.

What is analogous is social engineering through the law. It can be through drug laws for example or marriage laws. Conservatives wish to promote the nuclear family standard as ideal recognizing its role in stabilizing society, promoting self-reliance and raising prodigy while reflecting the Judeo-Christian values of Western culture.

I would argue that legal SSM allows homosexual couples to enter into a similar nuclear family standard that stabilizes society and promotes self-reliance. Also what pfan said. Despite your (incredibly biased) framing, your comparison is between 2 different forms of social engineering. You believe that yours is the correct form, but don't try and turn social engineering into a dirty word - Christians have been doing it for centuries.

The Left social engineers through the oppression of bigger government (social justice, income redistribution, racial quotes) and newly discovered "rights" for its own utopian vision.

Ah, so social justice is oppression, is it? Most religious leaders might beg to differ.

[PhilsFan]

I don't even think what the left is doing is anything like social engineering. But to call that social engineering while defending the side that literally is suggesting creating an ideal family through the law is just too rich.

[BEAL]

I guess what did Jesus say about this issue or homosexuals overall?

Since this is such a religious issue I assume the son of god had a very strong case to make and believers can fall back on his words.

If he didn't say anything and it's just cherry picking a verse out of the OT, I really hope those who use it against SSM also don't eat shellfish, have tattoos and anything else the OT deems a "sin".

[Galeongirl]

If your religion is against homosexuals, then don't have homosexual relationships or get a different religion. It's just as easy as that to me.

Religion is something personal, for you. Don't force it onto others and don't deny others rights because of YOUR religion. Nobody is forcing you to be gay, don't force gay people to be straight.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by INDY500

But SSM is analogous to racial segregation.

Righttttt.

What is analogous is social engineering through the law. It can be through drug laws for example or marriage laws. Conservatives wish to promote the nuclear family standard as ideal recognizing its role in stabilizing society, promoting self-reliance and raising prodigy while reflecting the Judeo-Christian values of Western culture.
The Left social engineers through the oppression of bigger government (social justice, income redistribution, racial quotes) and newly discovered "rights" for its own utopian vision.

The right reforms while the left radically changes.

Is there something wrong with gay people forming nuclear families? I don't see how SSM does anything but further the social engineering goals of the Right, as INDY has laid out.

Racial discrimination in marriage, as was the case up until 1967, is precisely analogous to discrimination in marriage on the basis of sexual orientation.

[Irvine511]

I am genuinely confused.

If someone wants to push conservative social engineering -- locking people into relationships -- so that people are required to take care of each other and any potential children (instead of the State) while at the same time incentivizing monogamy and moderate behavior in all things, and,as INDY does, present marriage as the solution to poverty, why would you want to exclude anyone from marriage?

Even politically, the most conservative voters are white married men -- wouldn't that "outreach" we heard about post-2012 whupping apply here as well? Lotsa married white affluent men, maybe with daughters ... sure, they're gay, but maybe they might start pulling the R lever if they were married.

[LJT]

There is no argument and there never has been one against same sex marriage. It is the final floundering of a vile strain of thought. If there was concern for the institution of marriage and children, they should be all for a ban on alcohol, I'm pretty sure it is up there in divorce proceedings and domestic violence. If there was concern for marriage they would stop locking up black fathers every chance they get. IF they were concerned about marriage they would just stop spewing their nonsense and let consenting adults marry.

It's getting to the point where it's just conspiracy theories and ramblings.

[Irvine511]

the Macklemore/Ryan Lewis/still closeted Queen Latifah/corpse of Madonna thing was very nice.

Macklemore & Ryan Lewis Mary Lambert Madonna 2014 Grammy Awards - YouTube

it reminded me of a comment once made by a straight male coworker of mine: "what kind of an asshole do you have to be to want to stop two people from getting married?"

[INDY500]

Why only two? Seems irrational and arbitrary if not bigoted. Marriage equality for ALL.