Pot: it can't be that great...right?

Lilly · 02-09-2002, 01:09 PM

A regularly intelligent friend of mine smokes pot. In January she did it 5 out of 9 days. I'm not a pot smoker because I don't believe I should be a) doing drugs when I don't even know what I'm doing with full consciousness and b) supporting America's drug culture. Well, I told her that it was stupid and whatnot. But she kept it up, THEN tried to hide it from me, which didn't work at all. She is sacrificing all of her potential for fucking weed. I have since distanced myself from her greatly and now she says she's clean because she chooses to be, but I don't believe her. But my question here is, is pot really that great? That you would sacrifice your friends for it? Not just any friend, someone who used to be your best friend? For getting high?

------------------
It's the puppets that pull the strings.

*You're very kind. Most people laugh when they see my googly eye.*

+fabulous+

The Edge, it's a direct object.

**Sicy** · 02-09-2002, 03:18 PM

CLAIM #11:
MARIJUANA PRODUCES AN AMOTIVATIONAL SYNDROME

Marijuana is said to have a deleterious effect on society by making users passive, apathetic, unproductive, and unable or unwilling to fulfill their responsibilities.

THE FACTS

The concept of an amotivational syndrome first appeared in the late 1960s, as marijuana use was increasing among American youth. In the years since, despite the absence of an agreed-upon definition of the concept, numerous researchers have attempted to verify its occurrence.

Large-scale studies of high school students have generally found no difference in grade-point averages between marijuana users and non-users. One study found lower grades among students reported to be daily users of marijuana, but the authors failed to identify a causal relationship and concluded that both phenomena were part of a complex of inter-related social and emotional problems.

In one longitudinal study of college students, after controlling for other factors, marijuana users were found to have higher grades than non-users and to be equally as likely to successfully complete their educations. Another study found that marijuana users in college scored higher than non-users on standardized "achievement values" scales.

Field studies conducted in Jamaica, Costa Rica and Greece also found no evidence of an amotivational syndrome marijuana-using populations.

In these samples of working-class males, the educational and employment records of marijuana users were, for the most part, similar to those of non-users. In fact, in Jamaica, marijuana was often smoked during working hours as an aid to productivity.
The results of laboratory studies have been nearly as consistent.

In one study lasting 94 days, marijuana had no significant impact on learning, performance or motivation.

In another 31-day study, subjects given marijuana worked more hours than controls and turned in an equal number of tokens for cash at the study's completion.

However, in a Canadian study that required subjects in the marijuana group to consume unusually high doses, some reduction in work efficiency was noted in the days following intoxication.

Undoubtedly, when marijuana is used in a way that produces near-constant intoxication, other activities are 1ikely to be neglected.
However, the weight of scientific evidence suggests that there is nothing in the pharmacological properties of cannabis that alter people's attitudes, values, or abilities regarding work.

From marijuana.com.

------------------
The wind will crack in winter time
No spoken words, just a scream

My Lair

erper · 02-09-2002, 04:16 PM

*psssst* Sicy pass the peace pipe this way =)

bonoman · 02-09-2002, 08:30 PM

Well your friend could have easily become addicted to alchol or gambling or any other thing. There grade most likely would slip.

Hate pot?

Hate alchol, gambling, niccotine, caffine?

Many, many post secondary students drink alot. I know from experience. Does that automatically make them people that are less then someone that doesnt?

I smoked pot last night. First time since Nov. it was fun. I feel fine now. And will tommorow, and i'll be at school on monday and will see my friends toinght

------------------
Running to Stand Still-"you gotta cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice."

"we're not burning out we're burning up...we're the loudest folk band in the world!"-Bono

**KhanadaRhodes** · 02-09-2002, 10:28 PM

pot sucks. don't even try to convince me otherwise.

------------------
you bury your treasure where it can't be found, but your love is like a secret that's been passed around...
ME!

pax · 02-09-2002, 11:04 PM

While I neither smoke pot nor drink on a regular basis, I do both recreationally. I have come to the conclusion that drinking gives me hangovers, which makes me miserable, sick to my stomach, tired and irritable. On the other hand, when I smoke pot, I wake up feeling BETTER than usual the next morning.

I don't think I've smoked pot enough to have any really strong feelings about it, except that for me, it's been completely harmless. Why alcohol is legal and pot isn't will confuse me forever.

------------------
If you cannot live together in here, you cannot live together out there, let me tell ya. --Bono

You've got to cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice... --Bono

**Sicy** · 02-10-2002, 12:43 AM

Have you smoked it before Khanada?

**KhanadaRhodes** · 02-10-2002, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sicy:
Have you smoked it before Khanada?

i'd rather not get into it, but...no. and i never intend on trying it. ever.

------------------
you bury your treasure where it can't be found, but your love is like a secret that's been passed around...
ME!

The Wanderer · 02-10-2002, 02:35 AM

is your friend a bad or inferior person now, or is it the morality issue? what exactly? [I'm just trying to understand why you are ending your friendship with her, I'm sure she didnt say "I'll start smoking pot so that I'll have no friends and no future," what I'm getting at is -- this may be indicative of a much deeper-rooted problem she's having, you may want to figure out what's causing her to go down this path]

Lilly · 02-10-2002, 02:45 AM

It was really more of a rant about how much i hate pot. i'm not ending our friendship over it i'm wondering why she would choose it over a friendship (not just my own at that). I just hate pot.

------------------
It's the puppets that pull the strings.

*You're very kind. Most people laugh when they see my googly eye.*

+fabulous+

The Edge, it's a direct object.

The Wanderer · 02-10-2002, 02:50 AM

well fair enough, I don't endorse the use of pot either, but I don't necessarily think it's the root of all evil either, just out of curiosity, do you hate alcohol as much as you hate pot?

the HORROR · 02-10-2002, 09:48 AM

I want to say that it depends a lot on the person who smokes it. A rather obvious statement that may be, but let me continue; I have a few "friends" to tell you about. I know two in particular that started out with pot in probably 7th or 8th grade. This led to cigarettes which of course they still do now years later. Then came alcohol along with the pot and ciggs. None of this was enough of "buzz" for these 17 year olds with a built up 3 year tolerance, so then came cocaine. After this became boring, then came the crack and the needle. Fifteen years later they finally decided they have lost their way and need help. They have no money because everything they earn at their "jobs" is spent on addiction. They usually end up stealing and pawning from family and friends when friday's little paycheck is gone by sunday morning.

On the other hand; I know several people who used the same drugs mentioned above in probably the same order, and kept it to a "recreational use" minimum. These people grew out of their "drug phase", married, and are raising families now and teaching their kids to "just say no". This second group of people represent an alarming rate of our peers at many levels. Alarming when you think of the junk they stuffed into their bodies and the chaos their system endured for 24-72 hour intervals.

So what makes the first group different from the second group? Heredity? The "alcoholic gene"? Do I personally think pot is bad? Boy let me tell you-why hell, I don't know. I'm addicted to pepsi and Chinese take out. Some people are addicted to a deadly trio of nicotine, coffee, and the morning newspaper.

The real question is; if you understand the odds that are stacked up against you, would you still take that hit?

Best of luck with you and your friend

The Wanderer · 02-10-2002, 12:28 PM

never tried. never will. it's bad bad bad.

actually I don't have a problem with pot as long as it's from a reliable source and you don't get addicted to it, ie, needing it everyday, but nevertheless, it is illegal and thus one must be cautious not to get their nuts caught in the old grinder

the olive · 02-10-2002, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by the HORROR:
I'm addicted to pepsi and Chinese take out.

Thank god I'm not alone...

kobayashi · 02-10-2002, 01:54 PM

pot is an easy target in our society.

don't hate your friend because she smokes up. how is it that she picks pot 'over' you?

------------------
i am ready to communicate with you

Spiral_Staircase · 02-11-2002, 09:41 AM

So would anybody have a problem with me handing a joint to my 9 year-old little brother?

z edge · 02-11-2002, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiral_Staircase:
So would anybody have a problem with me handing a joint to my 9 year-old little brother?

YES

Klodomir · 02-11-2002, 10:27 AM

Of course, Spiral. It's comparable to alcohol, which kids have no business drinking either. Of course, alcohol is more dangerous, but pot really isn't for children. But you knew that already, didn't you?

melon · 02-11-2002, 11:19 AM

I really find it troubling when I hear people using substances for the expressed intent of stress relief, and I don't care what the substance is.

What I'm very tired of is this very propagandistic line of alcohol being more dangerous than marijuana. And I thought I had heard every piece of revisionism imaginable?

Let's get this straight: anything and everything is dangerous in excess. A couple years ago, a runner died of water poisoning. He, apparently, drank too much water before his race. How's that for interesting? The key, of course, is moderation. Alcohol, in moderate amounts, has proven to have health benefits, particularly in cardiovascular health. Alcohol, in excess, kills...there has been no question about that.

However, there are some substances that have no place in us. Think what you want about tobacco, but it is highly unhealthy even in small amounts. There is no "moderate" health benefit, like with alcohol. Marijuana is the same way. That "buzz" you get from marijuana fucks with sensory channels in your brain. This isn't limited to just marijuana, but many drugs. Prozac does the same thing...people who used to get their "buzz" from 8 mg back in the late 1980s are now up to 80 mg just to get the same feeling of "normal." Ecstasy just does it in more extreme measures, and the evidence with usage is clear: premature brain aging and, in some cases, emotional problems due to the sensory channels being stuck too far open.

Marijuana reminds me a lot of tobacco in that respect. Tobacco seems harmless for the first two or three decades of consistent use, but then that cancer starts in. Marijuana, however, has been found to contain the same amount of tar as an entire pack of cigarettes, and preliminary evidence shows it may cause lung cancer.

Somehow, I find all this troubling. Quite honestly, I've found that doctors know very little about the brain and how it reacts when inundated with chemicals. Sure, the evidence may be currently inconclusive in that it appears that marijuana may be safe. I'm even open to allowing terminally ill patients use it for pain relief, considering that they'll die anyway.

Well, I've argued this before, but everyone seems to have their mind set anyway. I'm certainly not expecting people to change their mind just over this. However, I have a feeling that quoting marijuana.com would be similar to quoting Philip-Morris on cigarette safety in the early 1990s ("Smoking doesn't cause cancer"). It is amazing how easily statistics and studies can be manipulated.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[This message has been edited by melon (edited 02-11-2002).]

**KhanadaRhodes** · 02-11-2002, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melon:
I really find it troubling when I hear people using substances for the expressed intent of stress relief, and I don't care what the substance is.

i agree with you 100% on this, melon.

if you have to light one up to reduce stress, then maybe you should look into stress management. it's an illegal substance, and it'd sure suck if you got thrown in jail for it and possibly fucked away the rest of your life because of a drug charge.

------------------
if there's secrets she has to be pardoned to every one of them, if there's heaven she gets to the heart...
ME!

02-09-2002, 03:18 PM	#2
Sicy Sizzlin' Sicilian Forum Administrator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 71,093 Local Time: 11:43 PM	CLAIM #11: MARIJUANA PRODUCES AN AMOTIVATIONAL SYNDROME Marijuana is said to have a deleterious effect on society by making users passive, apathetic, unproductive, and unable or unwilling to fulfill their responsibilities. THE FACTS The concept of an amotivational syndrome first appeared in the late 1960s, as marijuana use was increasing among American youth. In the years since, despite the absence of an agreed-upon definition of the concept, numerous researchers have attempted to verify its occurrence. Large-scale studies of high school students have generally found no difference in grade-point averages between marijuana users and non-users. One study found lower grades among students reported to be daily users of marijuana, but the authors failed to identify a causal relationship and concluded that both phenomena were part of a complex of inter-related social and emotional problems. In one longitudinal study of college students, after controlling for other factors, marijuana users were found to have higher grades than non-users and to be equally as likely to successfully complete their educations. Another study found that marijuana users in college scored higher than non-users on standardized "achievement values" scales. Field studies conducted in Jamaica, Costa Rica and Greece also found no evidence of an amotivational syndrome marijuana-using populations. In these samples of working-class males, the educational and employment records of marijuana users were, for the most part, similar to those of non-users. In fact, in Jamaica, marijuana was often smoked during working hours as an aid to productivity. The results of laboratory studies have been nearly as consistent. In one study lasting 94 days, marijuana had no significant impact on learning, performance or motivation. In another 31-day study, subjects given marijuana worked more hours than controls and turned in an equal number of tokens for cash at the study's completion. However, in a Canadian study that required subjects in the marijuana group to consume unusually high doses, some reduction in work efficiency was noted in the days following intoxication. Undoubtedly, when marijuana is used in a way that produces near-constant intoxication, other activities are 1ikely to be neglected. However, the weight of scientific evidence suggests that there is nothing in the pharmacological properties of cannabis that alter people's attitudes, values, or abilities regarding work. From marijuana.com. ------------------ The wind will crack in winter time No spoken words, just a scream My Lair __________________

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02-09-2002, 01:09 PM	#1
Lilly Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: back and to the left Posts: 8,523 Local Time: 12:43 AM	Pot: it can't be that great...right? A regularly intelligent friend of mine smokes pot. In January she did it 5 out of 9 days. I'm not a pot smoker because I don't believe I should be a) doing drugs when I don't even know what I'm doing with full consciousness and b) supporting America's drug culture. Well, I told her that it was stupid and whatnot. But she kept it up, THEN tried to hide it from me, which didn't work at all. She is sacrificing all of her potential for fucking weed. I have since distanced myself from her greatly and now she says she's clean because she chooses to be, but I don't believe her. But my question here is, is pot really that great? That you would sacrifice your friends for it? Not just any friend, someone who used to be your best friend? For getting high? ------------------ It's the puppets that pull the strings. You're very kind. Most people laugh when they see my googly eye. +fabulous+ The Edge, it's a direct object. __________________

02-09-2002, 04:16 PM	#3
erper The Fly Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: garden grove, ca, usa, Earth, Sol, milkyway, cluster 5 in the universe Posts: 197 Local Time: 06:43 AM	psssst Sicy pass the peace pipe this way =)

02-09-2002, 08:30 PM	#4
bonoman Refugee Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Edmonton, Canada- Charlestown, Ireland Posts: 1,398 Local Time: 11:43 PM	Well your friend could have easily become addicted to alchol or gambling or any other thing. There grade most likely would slip. Hate pot? Hate alchol, gambling, niccotine, caffine? Many, many post secondary students drink alot. I know from experience. Does that automatically make them people that are less then someone that doesnt? I smoked pot last night. First time since Nov. it was fun. I feel fine now. And will tommorow, and i'll be at school on monday and will see my friends toinght ------------------ Running to Stand Still-"you gotta cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice." "we're not burning out we're burning up...we're the loudest folk band in the world!"-Bono

02-09-2002, 10:28 PM	#5
KhanadaRhodes Paper Gods Forum Administrator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: a vampire in the limousine Posts: 60,695 Local Time: 12:43 AM	pot sucks. don't even try to convince me otherwise. ------------------ you bury your treasure where it can't be found, but your love is like a secret that's been passed around... ME!

02-09-2002, 11:04 PM	#6
pax ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ewen's new American home Posts: 11,412 Local Time: 02:43 AM	While I neither smoke pot nor drink on a regular basis, I do both recreationally. I have come to the conclusion that drinking gives me hangovers, which makes me miserable, sick to my stomach, tired and irritable. On the other hand, when I smoke pot, I wake up feeling BETTER than usual the next morning. I don't think I've smoked pot enough to have any really strong feelings about it, except that for me, it's been completely harmless. Why alcohol is legal and pot isn't will confuse me forever. ------------------ If you cannot live together in here, you cannot live together out there, let me tell ya. --Bono You've got to cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice... --Bono

02-10-2002, 12:43 AM	#7
Sicy Sizzlin' Sicilian Forum Administrator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 71,093 Local Time: 11:43 PM	Have you smoked it before Khanada?

02-10-2002, 02:35 AM	#9
The Wanderer Kid A Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Holy Roman Empire Posts: 5,271 Local Time: 01:43 AM	is your friend a bad or inferior person now, or is it the morality issue? what exactly? [I'm just trying to understand why you are ending your friendship with her, I'm sure she didnt say "I'll start smoking pot so that I'll have no friends and no future," what I'm getting at is -- this may be indicative of a much deeper-rooted problem she's having, you may want to figure out what's causing her to go down this path]

02-10-2002, 02:45 AM	#10
Lilly Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: back and to the left Posts: 8,523 Local Time: 12:43 AM	It was really more of a rant about how much i hate pot. i'm not ending our friendship over it i'm wondering why she would choose it over a friendship (not just my own at that). I just hate pot. ------------------ It's the puppets that pull the strings. You're very kind. Most people laugh when they see my googly eye. +fabulous+ The Edge, it's a direct object.

02-10-2002, 02:50 AM	#11
The Wanderer Kid A Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Holy Roman Empire Posts: 5,271 Local Time: 01:43 AM	well fair enough, I don't endorse the use of pot either, but I don't necessarily think it's the root of all evil either, just out of curiosity, do you hate alcohol as much as you hate pot?

02-10-2002, 09:48 AM	#12
the HORROR Banned Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Detainee at the training camp for Liberals Posts: 57 Local Time: 06:43 AM	I want to say that it depends a lot on the person who smokes it. A rather obvious statement that may be, but let me continue; I have a few "friends" to tell you about. I know two in particular that started out with pot in probably 7th or 8th grade. This led to cigarettes which of course they still do now years later. Then came alcohol along with the pot and ciggs. None of this was enough of "buzz" for these 17 year olds with a built up 3 year tolerance, so then came cocaine. After this became boring, then came the crack and the needle. Fifteen years later they finally decided they have lost their way and need help. They have no money because everything they earn at their "jobs" is spent on addiction. They usually end up stealing and pawning from family and friends when friday's little paycheck is gone by sunday morning. On the other hand; I know several people who used the same drugs mentioned above in probably the same order, and kept it to a "recreational use" minimum. These people grew out of their "drug phase", married, and are raising families now and teaching their kids to "just say no". This second group of people represent an alarming rate of our peers at many levels. Alarming when you think of the junk they stuffed into their bodies and the chaos their system endured for 24-72 hour intervals. So what makes the first group different from the second group? Heredity? The "alcoholic gene"? Do I personally think pot is bad? Boy let me tell you-why hell, I don't know. I'm addicted to pepsi and Chinese take out. Some people are addicted to a deadly trio of nicotine, coffee, and the morning newspaper. The real question is; if you understand the odds that are stacked up against you, would you still take that hit? Best of luck with you and your friend

02-10-2002, 12:28 PM	#13
The Wanderer Kid A Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Holy Roman Empire Posts: 5,271 Local Time: 01:43 AM	never tried. never will. it's bad bad bad. actually I don't have a problem with pot as long as it's from a reliable source and you don't get addicted to it, ie, needing it everyday, but nevertheless, it is illegal and thus one must be cautious not to get their nuts caught in the old grinder

02-10-2002, 01:54 PM	#15
kobayashi Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: the ether Posts: 5,142 Local Time: 02:43 AM	pot is an easy target in our society. don't hate your friend because she smokes up. how is it that she picks pot 'over' you? ------------------ i am ready to communicate with you

02-11-2002, 09:41 AM	#16
Spiral_Staircase War Child Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Knoxville, TN, USA Posts: 684 Local Time: 12:43 AM	So would anybody have a problem with me handing a joint to my 9 year-old little brother?

02-11-2002, 10:27 AM	#18
Klodomir Refugee Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 1,198 Local Time: 07:43 AM	Of course, Spiral. It's comparable to alcohol, which kids have no business drinking either. Of course, alcohol is more dangerous, but pot really isn't for children. But you knew that already, didn't you?

02-11-2002, 11:19 AM	#19
melon ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ásgarðr Posts: 11,789 Local Time: 02:43 AM	I really find it troubling when I hear people using substances for the expressed intent of stress relief, and I don't care what the substance is. What I'm very tired of is this very propagandistic line of alcohol being more dangerous than marijuana. And I thought I had heard every piece of revisionism imaginable? Let's get this straight: anything and everything is dangerous in excess. A couple years ago, a runner died of water poisoning. He, apparently, drank too much water before his race. How's that for interesting? The key, of course, is moderation. Alcohol, in moderate amounts, has proven to have health benefits, particularly in cardiovascular health. Alcohol, in excess, kills...there has been no question about that. However, there are some substances that have no place in us. Think what you want about tobacco, but it is highly unhealthy even in small amounts. There is no "moderate" health benefit, like with alcohol. Marijuana is the same way. That "buzz" you get from marijuana fucks with sensory channels in your brain. This isn't limited to just marijuana, but many drugs. Prozac does the same thing...people who used to get their "buzz" from 8 mg back in the late 1980s are now up to 80 mg just to get the same feeling of "normal." Ecstasy just does it in more extreme measures, and the evidence with usage is clear: premature brain aging and, in some cases, emotional problems due to the sensory channels being stuck too far open. Marijuana reminds me a lot of tobacco in that respect. Tobacco seems harmless for the first two or three decades of consistent use, but then that cancer starts in. Marijuana, however, has been found to contain the same amount of tar as an entire pack of cigarettes, and preliminary evidence shows it may cause lung cancer. Somehow, I find all this troubling. Quite honestly, I've found that doctors know very little about the brain and how it reacts when inundated with chemicals. Sure, the evidence may be currently inconclusive in that it appears that marijuana may be safe. I'm even open to allowing terminally ill patients use it for pain relief, considering that they'll die anyway. Well, I've argued this before, but everyone seems to have their mind set anyway. I'm certainly not expecting people to change their mind just over this. However, I have a feeling that quoting marijuana.com would be similar to quoting Philip-Morris on cigarette safety in the early 1990s ("Smoking doesn't cause cancer"). It is amazing how easily statistics and studies can be manipulated. Melon ------------------ "He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time [This message has been edited by melon (edited 02-11-2002).]