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Old 03-05-2008, 01:44 PM   #261
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A group from my school will be going up to PA the weekend before the primary to campaign for Obama. Time to really roll up the sleeves and hit the pavement.
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Old 03-05-2008, 01:46 PM   #262
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Originally posted by deep


This information really is not directed at the average voter

it is directed at future Democratic Primary voters.

We are in a campaign season.


As for hurting the eventual candidate down the road.

I do recall watching Obama on television awhile back.

He said, "I know Hillary voters will support me in the general election. My voters will not support her."

Of the two statements, which one do you believe is more damaging?
Obama's statement would be more damaging, I suppose. I'm surprised such a statement wouldn't garner more media attention, though. That statement is an error on Obama's part. However, that doesn't compare to the way Hillary's run her entire campaign. I think I've said before that I've always been a huge admirer of Hillary Clinton. I think she's brilliant, strong, and capable. If you had asked me this time last year about my choice for president, it would've been her, hands down. I am shocked and disheartened by the way she's run her campaign. Irvine put it better in his 3rd post on this page http://forum.interference.com/showth...&pagenumber=17 I stated underneath it that he summed up my feelings on the Clinton campaign, so I'm not going to rehash my thoughts here. I will say, however, that while the Obama statement you posted was a mistake and wrong, it does not add up to the arrogance and entitlement that hangs over the Clinton campaign like a bad stench.
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Old 03-05-2008, 02:07 PM   #263
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Originally posted by deep


They are saying Ohio is a bell-weather state.

In recent times, no democratic candidate that loss the Ohio primary and went on the get the nomination became president. Lose Ohio = lose to the Republican in November.

check it out, for yourself.
The saying for decades way back when was "As Maine goes, so goes the nation."

Then came along Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
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Old 03-05-2008, 02:15 PM   #264
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


They are saying Ohio is a bell-weather state.

In recent times, no democratic candidate that loss the Ohio primary and went on the get the nomination became president. Lose Ohio = lose to the Republican in November.

check it out, for yourself.


by the old rules, you are right.

and if you want the old rules, if you want an election where only three states -- OH, FL, and PA -- matter, then vote for Hillary. she might be able to pull them off.

but there is new thinking out there, the kind of thinking that decided that Denver would be a good place for the Democratic Convention. there are some candidates who put most of the inter-mountain west into play, as well as the sunbelt states, and even Virginia.

you may be right that Jews and Latinos prefer Hillary to Obama, but i don't know that they would prefer McCain to Obama.

you are right about the elderly, though. there's enough residual racism amongst 60+ voters to argue against Obama.
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Old 03-05-2008, 02:19 PM   #265
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Originally posted by Irvine511





you are right about the elderly, though. there's enough residual racism amongst 60+ voters to argue against Obama.
Jack Nicholson and my grandparents, FTW.
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Old 03-05-2008, 02:20 PM   #266
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Originally posted by U2isthebest


Jack Nicholson and my grandparents, FTW.


i thought it was interesting the specific characters Nicholson chose to use in that ad.

what did all of those characters have in common? they were mysogynistic assholes.
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Old 03-05-2008, 02:21 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2isthebest


I'm surprised such a statement wouldn't garner more media attention, though.
I remembered hearing Obama say, that, too and looked it up. The exact quote according to one source was:

"I am confident I will get her votes if I'm the nominee," Obama stressed. "It's not clear she would get the votes I got if she were the nominee."
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archi...01/629273.aspx

I think he's right but it was a divisive comment.
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Old 03-05-2008, 02:29 PM   #268
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl


I remembered hearing Obama say, that, too and looked it up. The exact quote according to one source was:

"I am confident I will get her votes if I'm the nominee," Obama stressed. "It's not clear she would get the votes I got if she were the nominee."
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archi...01/629273.aspx

I think he's right but it was a divisive comment.
I agree. It was a divisive comment, and I'm disappointed he said it. Which is worse, though, a divisive comment or a divisive campaign?
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Old 03-05-2008, 02:37 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2isthebest


I agree. It was a divisive comment, and I'm disappointed he said it. Which is worse, though, a divisive comment or a divisive campaign?
No argument there.
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Old 03-05-2008, 02:39 PM   #270
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2isthebest


I agree. It was a divisive comment, and I'm disappointed he said it. Which is worse, though, a divisive comment or a divisive campaign?


or how about a line like this:

[q]Sen. McCain has a lifetime of experience, I have a lifetime of experience, Sen. Obama has one speech in 2002"[/q]
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Old 03-05-2008, 02:40 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


I do recall watching Obama on television awhile back.

He said, "I know Hillary voters will support me in the general election. My voters will not support her."

Of the two statements, which one do you believe is more damaging?
His statement is accurate

Independents have gone for Obama over McCain and Clinton

If Hillary gets the nom, independents go for McCain

And she loses

If Obama gets the nom

Independents will go for him, so will Dems

Because McCain makes them both angry

I like typing

Like deep
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Old 03-05-2008, 02:41 PM   #272
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Originally posted by 2861U2


I have to disagree. I don't think there's going to be any "crushing" result, no matter what the tickets look like.
You want to disagree. But he would definately be crushed, no doubt about it.

Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2

I'm in no way convinced that, if it came to this, Hillary would offer Obama the VP or that he would want it.
I agree with this...
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Old 03-05-2008, 03:24 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


or how about a line like this:
GMA: “Could you see yourself working to support Hillary Clinton if she gets the nomination?

Michelle Obama: “I would have to think about that. I would have to think about policies, her approach, her tone. . .”


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Old 03-05-2008, 03:26 PM   #274
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Yes, that was certainly worth coverage on the national news for 3 days, but I don't see a similar type of hysteria regarding Hillary's endorsement of McCain.

Frankly if Hillary thinks McCain is so fantastic and experience rules the day (he has more), then what the hell, everyone may as well vote for him over her.
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Old 03-05-2008, 03:28 PM   #275
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Hillary's 35 years of experience card is just ridiculous. Why is nobody calling her out on this? She is saying that every single thing she did from the minute she graduated from Yale was presidentially-relevant experience? Give me a fucking break!
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:02 PM   #276
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
you may be right that Jews and Latinos prefer Hillary to Obama, but i don't know that they would prefer McCain to Obama.

you are right about the elderly, though. there's enough residual racism amongst 60+ voters to argue against Obama.
I guess it all comes down to which states turn out to be battleground states in the general and how critical a component these electoral demographics are in those states. Are there any states where Obama has won with Hispanic voters? I know with Jewish voters, Hillary had a majority in NY (her home turf, and she spent lots of time wooing Jewish voters in her Senate races) as well as FL, Obama had a majority in MA and CT, they split the Jewish vote in CA. So there it depends on which state you're talking about.

Agree about elderly white voters though, sadly, and that probably extends to elderly Jewish voters, possibly elderly Hispanic voters as well.
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:16 PM   #277
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Obama to sharpen criticism of Clinton

By TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer

Democratic Sen. Barack Obama on Wednesday blamed his primary defeats in Ohio and Texas on rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's criticism and news coverage that he argued benefited her at his expense.

The presidential candidate said he planned to do more in the days ahead to raise doubts about his opponent's claims to foreign policy and other Washington experience. In a television ad that her campaign credits with helping her win, she portrayed herself as most prepared to handle an international crisis.

"What exactly is this foreign policy experience?" Obama asked mockingly. "Was she negotiating treaties? Was she handling crises? The answer is no."

Clinton, who was asked in TV interviews Wednesday about her national security qualifications, ticked off a series events in which she played a role, including peace talks in Northern Ireland, the Kosovo refugee crisis and standing up for women's rights in China. She also cited her work on the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Obama's campaign immediately delivered on his pledge to criticize Clinton. Aides distributed a memo and held a conference call to question why she won't release her tax returns. The Clinton campaign responded with a statement e-mailed to reporters while they were on the Obama call that said the Clintons' returns since they left the White House will be made public around April 15.

Obama reflected on the losses that broke a 12-contest winning streak in a talk with reporters aboard his campaign plane as he returned to his hometown of Chicago from San Antonio.

"There's no doubt that Senator Clinton went very negative over the last week," Obama said. He said the Clinton campaign's multiple attacks "had some impact" on the election results "particularly in the context where many of you in the press corps had been persuaded that you had been too hard on her and too soft on me."

"Complaining about the refs apparently worked a little bit this week," he said, equating members of the news media with referees in a sporting event.

"So hopefully in addition to my call to Lorne Michaels, hopefully now people feel like everything's evened out and we can start actually covering the campaign properly," he said.

Obama spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the reference to Michaels, producer of the television comedy show "Saturday Night Live," was a joke. The show has recently featured skits in which actors portraying reporters lob softball questions at an Obama impersonator and hardball ones at a Clinton character. Clinton herself appeared on the show last weekend. Obama was on the show last November.

Obama also complained about what he said was "the notion that somehow all the states I win somehow are not bellwether states but the states that Senator Clinton wins, those are the critical ones."

He said it was "a strange way of keeping score and I don't think it makes much sense."

As to tactics ahead, Obama said that Clinton "made a series of arguments on why she should be a superior candidate. I think it's important to examine that argument."

"We're happy to join the debate, If that's the debate they want to have," Obama said, noting Clinton's efforts to portray him as lacking her level of experience. "In the coming weeks, we will join her in that argument."

Obama also brushed off a question about a joint ticket with Clinton. "We are just focused on winning this nomination," he said. "I think it is premature to start talking about a joint ticket."

Obama had nothing on his public schedule Wednesday and Thursday. Friday, he flies to Wyoming to campaign and was also expected to go to Mississippi over the weekend — sites of the next two Democratic contests.

Meanwhile, Obama campaign manager David Plouffe acknowledged that Clinton "had a good night last night in terms of the raw vote." But he said that she made such shallow gains in picking up new delegates that, proportionately, she was worse off in terms of overtaking Obama's delegate count than before.

"There were a lot of delegates at stake last night and she faced a big deficit," he said. Plouffe said she needed substantial pickups "to make the math work" and keep from falling farther behind. "That did not come to fruition," he said. The number needed to overtake Obama keeps rising, with only a dwindling number of delegates left.
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:19 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Hillary's 35 years of experience card is just ridiculous. Why is nobody calling her out on this? She is saying that every single thing she did from the minute she graduated from Yale was presidentially-relevant experience? Give me a fucking break!
Obama's about to begin to, it seems, from the article Mrs. S just posted.
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:27 PM   #279
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Obama's about to begin to, it seems, from the article Mrs. S just posted.
I've always wondered what experience she was referring to. She would've thrown a fit if Obama had brought up his 20 odd years of experience as a community organizer, Constitutional law professor, state senator, etc., because she always points out his lack of experience/years as as senator. She's only been a senator for 4 years more than he has and was not an elected official prior to that. If government experience is what should count, we should've elected Strom Thurmond or Jesse Helms president years ago.
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:47 PM   #280
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[q]"What exactly is this foreign policy experience?" Obama asked mockingly. "Was she negotiating treaties? Was she handling crises? The answer is no."[/q]





it's not that he's not right, because he is right, but these are McCain talking points. this is Republican ammunition.

so, maybe it's good that we get at this early in the season, maybe we won't have a wounded nominee but a hardened one who's been through all the attacks and survived.

but maybe not.
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