"Northern Ireland most bigoted place in western world" - survey claim

[financeguy]

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp=CWSNGBSNMHSN

"The North is the most bigoted place in the western world, according to research conducted at the University of Ulster.

The finding, which is due to be published in a leading economics journal, is based on a survey of almost 32,000 people in 23 countries.

They were asked how they would feel living beside Muslims, Jews, homosexuals or people of another race.

Forty-four per cent of respondents in the North said they did not want people from these groups living next door.

The main targets of the prejudice were gays, followed by foreign workers.

The North came in just ahead of Greece for levels of bigotry, with the lowest incidence of prejudice found to be in Sweden, Iceland, Canada and Denmark."


Bearing in mind the standard caveats applying to such surveys - (was the sample size sufficient, do the surveyors have an agenda), etc, what do FYM posters make of this?

Personally if I were black or Asian, I'd think I'd take my chances in Northern Ireland before Russia, for example, but nevertheless a disturbing survey.

 

[Justin24]

Glad to see the USA not on that list.

 

[LJT]

Ummm I would probably agree with the survey, just taking people's attitudes from school, where in Business Studies people would regularly blame immigrants for stealing jobs and all that crap....racist language was and is pretty common at least where I live.

What do you expect though from a place where sectarianism is still a problem, where you can hear 3 year olds being sectarian?

Five years ago you wouldn't have seen a black man in the town, now there are a lot more people of different ethnic backgrounds in Belfast and the place being as it is, it doesn't surpise me that we are being as bigoted towards them as we are to ourselves.

 

[martha]

When I was motoring through Ulster last March (or the March before), I wanted to ask the tour guide this question, but the idiot Americans were hogging him.

Question: Do you think immigrants, who by their immigrant nature don't give a rat's about Catholic vs. Protestant or Irish vs. English, will eventually bring a change to the sectarianism? Do you think that as the kids of immigrants grow up, they'll be infected with it, or will their removal from it remain and influence Irish and English?

Or, in light of this survey, will the Irish shun them so completely, they won't have a chance to influence anybody?

 

[yolland]

^ Has immigration ever really had that effect anywhere? I mean, it sounds good, it even sounds logical, but I don't know that I can think of an instance that fits that.

 

[martha]

^ Has immigration ever really had that effect anywhere? I mean, it sounds good, it even sounds logical, but I don't know that I can think of an instance that fits that.

I know. I guess I was hoping for some kind of dilution of the insanity.

Maybe I'll pin my hopes on the young people, like I usually do, but this survey doesn't make that sound like a good idea either.

 

[financeguy]

Maybe I'll pin my hopes on the young people, like I usually do, but this survey doesn't make that sound like a good idea either.

I remember reading an article about a decade ago, I think it was in one of the English newspapers, this was soon after the Provo ceasefire (circa '94), the writer was essentially saying that the Catholic youth and the Protestant youth of Northern Ireland would very quickly cast aside their tribal differences given that they had almost identical cultural influences (watched the same TV, listened to the same music, etc).

I blame a lot of the tribal thing on segregated education.

 

[LJT]

Ah I think segragated education is part of it, but not really the main influence on the tribal thing, a lot more of it stems from where you live, its where your 'tribal culture' is maintained. If all the Catholics are living all in one area and the Protestants are living in one area, and knowing that generally people here when they move, they move pretty close to home, all their tribal links are to that area.

So a Protestant seeing the union jack everywhere they go the kerbs painted red, white and blue, they have their Rangers and NI football supporters clubs in their area and the murals of UVF, LVF painted on walls, their tribal ties are reinforced....likewise with Catholics the tricolour is everywhere, the IRA murals, Celtic supporters clubs....you end up knowing which 'side' you belong to.

Outside of Belfast you end up with whole towns and villages of just Protestants and whole villages and towns of just Catholics, it's insane when you think about it. The political parties are more or less divided up on religious lines as well, with the odd exception, Catholics= Sinn Fein, SDLP, Protestants= UUP, DUP.

The schools may help reinforce some these tribal feelings, by just being around their friends who share similar views, but they don't teach sectarianism, thats what the parents and the area you grew up in do.

In answer to Martha, I don't think immigartion will have any diluting affect on the problems here, racism has just been added to the mix with their arrival....seemingly world over people can only deal with removing one bigotry at a time, we haven't even dealt with the sectarianism yet, the race issue will likely come another 20 years down the line, then maybe we will get round to deal with the rampant homophobia here.

Again on immigration there is an example of sorts of people being infected by it as such. The Shoukri brothers are both half Egyptians, their father married a local woman, and they both became leading loyalists in North Belfast. The funny thing is the loyalist group they were members of, the UDA, has links to the racist group Combat-18.....it's really messed up.

 

[Laura M]

That news surprises me. Where I live (in the city) there are a lot of nationalities and everyone gets along well.

One country where the level of racism shocked me was Spain. People were not afraid to tell you just what they thought about immigrants coming into their country.

I think people's attitude all depend on where they come from here. I don't think it can all be blamed on education, that plays a part but I think family and neighbourhood play a much bigger role in shaping your attitude towards certain things here.

Always something that people can get riled up about. Every country has its problems.

 

[LJT]

The South and central area of Belfast I don't believe have much of a bigotry problem, West seems pretty bad to me, you see the occasional swastika cropping up, North Belfast I know can be bad to...don't really have much knowledge of East Belfast to pass comment.

 

[Laura M]

The South and central area of Belfast I don't believe have much of a bigotry problem, West seems pretty bad to me, you see the occasional swastika cropping up, North Belfast I know can be bad to...don't really have much knowledge of East Belfast to pass comment.

I don't know anything about the East myself.

Born and bred in Andytown.

 

[LJT]

Andytown is the place to be

Though I was born in Beechmount, then moved to the Falls and for the past 5 years I am now in Andytown, Riverdale to be exact....now I've just opened myself up to a whole load of stalking

 

[Laura M]

I always lived there.

I lived about 5 minutes away from R/dale/Ballyowen. We moved out when I was about 11/12 so over ten years ago now to just outside the North.
Don't live at the parental gaff anymore either.

Here is a more detailed article on that survery: http://news.ulster.ac.uk/releases/2007/2980.html

 

[martha]

Again on immigration there is an example of sorts of people being infected by it as such. The Shoukri brothers are both half Egyptians, their father married a local woman, and they both became leading loyalists in North Belfast. The funny thing is the loyalist group they were members of, the UDA, has links to the racist group Combat-18.....it's really messed up.

I guees my naivte was showing.