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Old 01-08-2003, 01:48 PM   #1
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NO WAR ON IRAQ RALLY in LA this Sat!! Join US!

I'm not sure if this is appropriate to post here ( i also posting in Gatherings cuz I wasn't sure where it belonged.

I belong to the LA/OC Jubilee group here in Los Angeles and we are participating in a NO WAR ON IRAQ rally in downtown LA this Saturday. Read on if you are interested and email me if you want to meet up. ( oktobergirl@yahoo.com)

Julie


LOS ANGELES, SATURDAY, JAN 11 NO WAR ON IRAQ!

MASS MARCH AND RALLY


JOIN Martin Sheen and others. 11:00 AM: Gather at Olympic and Broadway 12:00 Noon: March to the Downtown Federal Building (Los Angeles Street at Temple) 1:00 PM Rally Downtown Federal Building. Endorsers: Korean Immigrant Workers' Advocates (KIWA), One Korea L.A. Forum, International Action Center, Mindullae, Free Palestine Alliance, South Asian Network, National Lawyers' Guild, Sweatshop Watch, Garment Workers Center.

JOIN INDIVIDUAL LA/OC JUBILEE MEMBERS

TO FLYER AND SUPPORT CHANGE


Please join individual members of LA/OC Jubilee as they coalition with other groups to protest damaging US foreign policy. The US should concentrate its resources to combat poverty at home and abroad. Jubilee's mission of eradicating world debt is part of that plan. Channeling more US money for food and healthcare not bombs is also part of that plan.

LA/OC Jubilee can meet and park near Los Angeles Community College and take LA Mass transit to the protest. We will be meeting at 9:30 AM at Crystal Cook's home for breakfast and to make posters to support debt cancellation and to channel US funds for stopping Global AIDS, TB, and Malaria. Then together we can walk to the Metro station. This will be easier than trying to park Downtown. Call Crystal at 310 739 1159 for more information.





Los Angeles/ Orange County Jubilee

P.O. Box 29458, Los Angeles, CA 90029-0458

Jubilee USA Network
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Old 01-08-2003, 01:52 PM   #2
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why?
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Old 01-08-2003, 02:01 PM   #3
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Excellent!

I hope the protest goes really well, you'll have to post here afterwards to let us know how it goes, how many people you got, what media coverage you got etc.

Also, if anyone else has any anti-war actions coming up please post about them, or if you've been on demos/occupations/protests etc recently then post a report back.
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Old 01-08-2003, 02:06 PM   #4
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I'm checking out now to see if any of the local activist groups have done a press release to the local media. If not, I'm going to type of a quick one and fax it over to the local media stations as well as CNN.

Thanks for the support.
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Old 01-08-2003, 02:27 PM   #5
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a lot of ppl cant make.
maybe US Ambassador "Spicoli" Sean Penn will b there..
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Old 01-08-2003, 02:28 PM   #6
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The next UK antiwar action is the Stop The War Coalition demonstration in London on February 15th. There will be transport from most major cities in the UK, look on the Stop the War site for details.

Just as a reminder, the last demo on September 28th saw 400,000 people taking to the streets in opposition to war on Iraq. Here's a few pictures of the day:

One of the many creative banners:


The rally in Hyde Park, addressed by Tony Benn, Scott Ritter, John Pilger as well as numerous MPs and trade unionists:


And some pictures of the demo itself.


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Old 01-08-2003, 03:10 PM   #7
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There are Anti-War rallies scheduled in DC, NYC, ans San Francisco on January 18, 2002. The DC one will be on the Mall. I'll be there and will let anyone interested know what's happening. Here is a link to the main organizer:

http://www.internationalanswer.org/n.../011803dc.html

Maybe I can make Ashcroft list of patriotic Americans. LOL
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Old 01-08-2003, 03:44 PM   #8
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
The next UK antiwar action is the Stop The War Coalition demonstration in London on February 15th. There will be transport from most major cities in the UK, look on the Stop the War site for details.
Fizz and others......

February 15th will be too late in my opinion.

The State of the Union Speech will be given later this month. Since it is clear, even to a blind Republican, that he has not made his case to the people of this country for war he will do so in this Speech.

The initial report of the inspectors has not been made but it is due on January 27. Although I am betting they find nothing, they will also present to the UN that Iraq has not proven what it did with the existing materials from the years before.

The first weekend in February will be the new moon. That time period of the first week in February will be dark and the safest time to begin action with the air campaign.

I have also seen in news searches that our allies are also moving troops into the region and the command center for operations is currently being moved into the theater. As to allies, I am not just referring to Great Britain.

I am going to be contacting my Senators and Congressman for a few reasons. I DO NOT think the President has yet made his case for action. This needs to be done. It is of my opinion that if we are going to do this, we need him to make his case. As of today I am not for Action. That may change, depending on what happens in the next few weeks.

Good luck to all of you with your stand! I may not agree with you all of the time, but I love democracy in action.

Peace to all.
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Old 01-08-2003, 04:14 PM   #9
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Fizz and others......

February 15th will be too late in my opinion.

I agree with you that there's a good chance that a war on Iraq will already have started by then, but that doesn't mean it's too late to take action against the war.

Besides, there are numerous actions planned for the day war starts - there are Stop the War groups in most cities in the UK and they all have plans for actions in their own cities on the day war starts, such as rallies or demonstrations, speaker meetings, occupations, etc. There will be MASSIVE demonstrations in London on that day too.

In any case, I don't think that opposition to war should end when war begins. If we oppose the war before it starts then we should continue to oppose it when it's begn and we see the horror it creates. During the attack on Afghanistan there was a demo in October the week after the war started, and another one in November when the bombing was continuing. It'll be the same with this war - as long as it's going ahead there will be opposition.
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Old 01-08-2003, 06:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


I agree with you that there's a good chance that a war on Iraq will already have started by then, but that doesn't mean it's too late to take action against the war.

Besides, there are numerous actions planned for the day war starts - there are Stop the War groups in most cities in the UK and they all have plans for actions in their own cities on the day war starts, such as rallies or demonstrations, speaker meetings, occupations, etc. There will be MASSIVE demonstrations in London on that day too.

In any case, I don't think that opposition to war should end when war begins. If we oppose the war before it starts then we should continue to oppose it when it's begn and we see the horror it creates. During the attack on Afghanistan there was a demo in October the week after the war started, and another one in November when the bombing was continuing. It'll be the same with this war - as long as it's going ahead there will be opposition.
Exactly.

If I lived in that area, I would gladly show up.

However...I'm hoping to maybe get a little anti-war rally started with some of the kids from my AP Government class (as well as anyone else who wishes to join) here in my town if war with Iraq does start (which it's almost a guarantee that it will).

Let us know how it went afterwards-hope your rally goes well. .

Angela
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Old 01-08-2003, 09:08 PM   #11
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Fizzing,

"Besides, there are numerous actions planned for the day war starts - there are Stop the War groups in most cities in the UK and they all have plans for actions in their own cities on the day war starts, such as rallies or demonstrations, speaker meetings, occupations, etc. There will be MASSIVE demonstrations in London on that day too."

What are "occupations"?
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Old 01-09-2003, 02:29 AM   #12
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Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
However...I'm hoping to maybe get a little anti-war rally started with some of the kids from my AP Government class (as well as anyone else who wishes to join) here in my town if war with Iraq does start (which it's almost a guarantee that it will).
That's a great idea. There are lots of events like that taking place here too, not necessarily organised by a specific organisation but just a group of people who oppose war and want to make their voice heard. And it's a great way to get other people informed about the reasons to oppose war.
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Old 01-09-2003, 02:34 AM   #13
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Originally posted by STING2

What are "occupations"?
An occupation is where you occupy a building for a certain length of time in order to protest something. So a group of people will go into a building and say that they're going to refuse to leave, either for a certain length of time, or until a certain condition is met. For example, we had an occupation at my university in October where we occupied an engineering department building for 24-hours in protest at war on Iraq. It got massive media attention and had around 300 people involved.

Other examples would be occupations which took place when student fees were introduced in the UK - several colleges threatened to throw out students who were unable to pay and so students went into occupation to demand that the administration stop excluding students from the university and held discussions with the students about their concerns with tuition fees.
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Old 01-09-2003, 09:38 AM   #14
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


An occupation is where you occupy a building for a certain length of time in order to protest something. So a group of people will go into a building and say that they're going to refuse to leave, either for a certain length of time, or until a certain condition is met. For example, we had an occupation at my university in October where we occupied an engineering department building for 24-hours in protest at war on Iraq. It got massive media attention and had around 300 people involved.

Other examples would be occupations which took place when student fees were introduced in the UK - several colleges threatened to throw out students who were unable to pay and so students went into occupation to demand that the administration stop excluding students from the university and held discussions with the students about their concerns with tuition fees.
A slightly more descriptive term for "occupying" might be "trespassing on private property and/or preventing ordinary citizens from accomplishing their daily work because the protesters are immature poseurs harboring an out-of-control rebellious streak."

There are better and more proper methods of registering a complaint than "occupying" a building. Gathering in a large open area like the Mall in Washington DC is appropriate. Clogging a building or the streets is not.

Still fresh in my mind is the "occupation" of Massachusetts Hall (one of the main administrative buildings at Harvard University, where the president and others have offices) by members of the Progressive Student Labor Movement in protest of the University's failure to guarantee its employees a living wage. In a disciplinary hearing before the Harvard Ad Board, some Harvard administrative staffers testified that the protesters did on occasion interfere with their duties.

Some of the students who occupied the building were formally reprimanded (this appears on their transcripts) and then had the audacity to claim that they were being treated unjustly.

There are lots of students at Harvard who support the living wage movement, but as far as I can tell the PSLM represented a small minority of these students.
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Old 01-12-2003, 08:18 AM   #15
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Originally posted by speedracer
A slightly more descriptive term for "occupying" might be "trespassing on private property and/or preventing ordinary citizens from accomplishing their daily work because the protesters are immature poseurs harboring an out-of-control rebellious streak."
*sigh* Care to throw some more insults, speedracer?

I guess technically the first part of that sentence is correct. When we occupy a building we are attempting to prevent the normal business which takes place in that building from being carried out.

Then again, a more descriptive term for the "collateral damage" pro-war individuals refer to is "the murder of thousands of innocent people."

The more descriptive term for "cluster bombs" is "bombs which on explosion break up into thousands of smaller bombs, many of which will lie on the ground like landmines until someone treads on them and is killed."

The more descriptive term for "depleted uranium weapons" (which were used in the Gulf War 1991) is "weapons which will cause fatal illnesses such as cancer and leukeamia for many years after the war as well as causing horrendous birth defects in children born in the region."

As for the insults...my government plans to be involved in a 'war' which could kill hundreds of thousands of people, force millions to flee their homes. For the last ten years its imposed "the toughest, most comprehensive sanctions in history" which have killed at least half a million children according to UNICEF. If you think I'm going to sit back and let it happen without doing everything in my power to stop it then you're mad. And if you think it's immature to oppose this, well you're just plain wrong.

The majority of people in this country oppose attacking Iraq. If recent reports are correct, the majority of the cabinet oppose it. Hundreds of MPs certainly oppose it and have signed EDMs against it. And yet Blair wants to go ahead with it. What do you suggest we do? Just back off and let him get away with it? NO WAY. I've taken all those "legitimate" ways of expressing my opinion. I've written to my MP, I've phoned my MP, I plan to meet with my MP at a lobby of parliament next week. I've written letters to Defence Secretary, the Foreign Secretary and the Prime Minister. Guess what? NOT ONE OF THEM REPLIED. I've been on no less than six antiwar demonstrations in the last year, including one which had FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE on it. That's the biggest peace demonstration Britain's ever had, by the way.

And guess what? They're still not listening. Those who oppose war are in the majority in this country and yet the government plans to go ahead with it. So what's why I have no problem with occupying buildings or blocking roads. Because the government need to realise that if they go ahead with this illegal and immoral war then the protests we've already seen will look tiny in comparison to the protests if they go ahead with this. They need to know that people are ready to take action against the war, they won't just sit back and accept their government engaging in a war which they don't want and which will kill thousands and thousands of innocent people.

Sorry to have made this post so long, it just pisses me off to hear people who are fighting against an illegal and immoral war insulted in the way they were in the previous post.
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Old 01-12-2003, 08:22 AM   #16
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Old 01-12-2003, 01:48 PM   #17
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Meanwhile, North Korea's leader gets a little more like Yosemite Sam every day. He's kicking President Bush around as if George were the schoolyard wimp, and Bush has shrunk into a corner with his legs crossed.
Thousands Rally Against War in Iraq, Push Peace
By Erika Hayasaki
Times Staff Writer

January 12 2003

Thousands of people protesting a looming U.S.-led war against Iraq marched through downtown Los Angeles on Saturday, with many chanting, "We want peace!"

According to police, the crowd numbered between 5,000 and 7,000. Many wore their opinions, such as "No War" or "Don't Cut Medicare for Bombs and Missiles," on T-shirts, buttons and baseball caps. Organizers estimated the crowd at 15,000, said Karin Pally, who helped put on the event.

Sponsored by KPFK-FM (90.7) radio and several peace organizations, the protest began just after 11:30 a.m. and ended about 5 p.m., after a march to the Federal Building at Temple and Los Angeles streets.

"All of these people here symbolize one idea: Let's not kill," said Onalysa Flynn, 19, a Los Angeles Valley College student who was attending her first protest. "Why isn't there another way? There's got to be another way."

At the Federal Building, rock singers, poets, activists and actor Martin Sheen, star of the NBC series "The West Wing," denounced war over loudspeakers. Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Los Angeles) and Los Angeles Urban League President John Mack also took part in the event, which was a precursor to a series of upcoming demonstrations set to take place in San Francisco and Washington, D.C., on Saturday.

The rally, monitored by police but with no arrests, followed President Bush's announcement that the U.S. will deploy 62,000 more U.S. troops to the Persian Gulf because of Iraq's continued efforts to manufacture nuclear arms and its refusal to cooperate with United Nations inspections.

Marc Hewitt, 24, of Los Angeles said war is being peddled by Bush for selfish reasons.

"I believe we're going to war for oil," said Hewitt, who attended the rally with his girlfriend, Natalie Wilson, 23, of Long Beach.

Wilson said this demonstration will send a powerful message, but just as important, "it will keep people sane."

"We feel powerless. But when you see people here who are like-minded, it feels good."

Marchers made their way toward the Federal Building via Broadway, passing jewelry and clothing shops, magazine stands and pizza parlors. Weekend shoppers stopped on sidewalks to watch, while some store owners stepped out from behind their registers to view the mile-long parade as it passed.

"I didn't know there would be this many people against war," said George Mobasseri, who owns Modern Broadway, a jeans boutique.

The smell of burning incense and sage lingered. The sound of beating drums echoed down street blocks. Meanwhile, children and adults who live in high-rise apartment complexes on Broadway peered down toward the street, some waving flags in support.

The crowd included Muslim women wearing head scarfs, a man in a suit and tie, an elderly woman with a walking cane, children wearing peace signs on their T-shirts, people in dreadlocks, mohawks and a Princeton University baseball cap.

There was 83-year-old Irja Lloyd, of the Sunset Hall retirement home in the Mid-Wilshire district, who came in her wheelchair with a bowl of grapes and a sign that read: "Speak Your Peace."

"I'm here because I believe in peace, and I have seen too much war," she said.

There was 5-year-old Naima Orozco of Alhambra, who pumped her fists in the air and cheered when an announcer yelled: "You cannot have peace by bombing innocent children and families."

Naima's mother, Irma Valdivia, said she brought her daughter because she wanted her to learn about freedom of speech.

Bonnie Morrison, 46, said when she heard about the demonstration she put on her walking shoes and headed downtown from Pasadena.

"My heart is in this," she said, adding that it was her first protest. The imminent war with Iraq, and the possible large-scale death and devastation it may cause, pushed her to take part in the event, she said.

"At least, if it happens, I know I did what I could to stop it," she said. "I just hope this administration hears us."




STEVE LOPEZ POINTS WEST
Middle-Class Dissent on Display at War Protest
Steve Lopez

January 12 2003

Antiwar rallies tend to draw the usual suspects, and Saturday's in downtown Los Angeles was no exception. You had your socialists, anarchists and various professional protesters among a rag-tag, bang-the-drums throng of several thousand.

But there were baby buggies and suburbanites in khaki shorts mixed into the crowd, some of them looking as if they'd taken a wrong turn on their way to the mall.

"They're the very people who are being hurt the most by national policies," said Craig Frey, 48, a software engineer from San Diego. Frey held a sign that neatly expressed his middle-class dissent:

"Saddam Didn't Steal My 401(k)."

"They say Iraq is such a threat to the U.S.," he said. "But there are people in the Cabinet who've done more harm to us by protecting corporate criminals."

Another sign in the crowd borrowed from the same theme: "Iraq Never Closed My Health Clinic."

Only a few hundred people had gathered at Olympic and Broadway by 10:30 a.m., and I feared the rally would be a bust. But within an hour, thousands had fallen into line, with more on the way. My guess is that they bolted from their cereal and raced downtown after reading the morning newspaper. Current events these days can really get the blood boiling.

We're on the verge of war against a country that hasn't threatened us and has no nukes anyone can locate. And do you remember those mysterious aluminum tubes that got the White House worked into a lather about an Iraqi nuke program? Looks like it was all a mistake.

Meanwhile, North Korea's leader gets a little more like Yosemite Sam every day. He's kicking President Bush around as if George were the schoolyard wimp, and Bush has shrunk into a corner with his legs crossed.

Kim Jong Il is rolling out his missiles and writing Bush's name on them, practically taunting the world to come get him.

Our response?

We're sending 62,000 more troops to the Persian Gulf to keep an eye on Saddam.

If it sounds batty to you, maybe Craig Frey can explain.

"North Korea doesn't have oil," he said.

Well, it's a little more complicated than that. But I still like the button worn by Frey's wife, Heather Smith, a textiles artist.

"Are you Willing to Die for Exxon?"

Alexis Robinson's answer is no.

Robinson and her husband, Roy, along with their 6-month-old daughter, Emma, and Roy's brother David, took the train from Claremont to save gas. About 10 others had the same idea, said David, all of them boarding at the Claremont Metrolink station.

"We wanted to make a statement," said Alexis, a young mother who had never before attended a political rally.

If the Iraqis had nukes, Alexis said, she might feel differently about the march to war. If they had threatened the U.S. or been linked to Al Qaeda, that could put her in line behind the president, too.

"But without that, are we going to war just because Bush and Cheney want to? What's happening in North Korea makes it all the more hypocritical," Alexis said.

"The Democrats in Congress have no backbone," said her husband, Roy, a studies-abroad counselor at Claremont McKenna College. "The NRA, the Republicans, they stand up and say they're proud of who they are. But isn't there one Democrat who will challenge this?"

Ismael Alsharif, a Web engineer who lived in Egypt and Saudi Arabia, fears that a strike on Iraq will be a gift to those who recruit terrorists. He and three friends from West Hollywood -- Pat Amirault, a TV producer; Mark Zecca, a film producer; and Pat McFadden, an administrative assistant at Disney -- came to the rally with a simple objective.

They hoped a sufficiently large crowd would send the message that reasonable people have legitimate questions about where the United States is headed. Questions about the cost of war, the motives, the benefits, the risks.

Look, the awful truth is that Saddam is scary. Kim Jong Il is, too. But Bush is no slouch in that department, and if we sit here waving a flag over everything he says, the planet could blow.

It's a complicated world and there are no easy answers, said Canoga Park's Merilie Robertson, 74. But she came to the rally with friends from her Presbyterian church and asked a perfectly sensible question:

Why not continue a policy in Iraq that has worked reasonably well to date?

Good question. The situation isn't perfect, but why war, and why now?

The one event that set in motion all this brinkmanship and saber-rattling seems, at times, to have been forgotten. Frey, the software engineer from San Diego, brought it back into focus.

"Why not just go after the terrorists?"

Oh yeah, the terrorists.

I leaned in closer to Frey so I could hear him over the drumbeat, and here's what I read on one of his buttons:

"If you're not totally p-----off, you're not paying attention."
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Old 01-12-2003, 02:37 PM   #18
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Fizzing,

You and the others that oppose this possible military action against Iraq, the next time elections in the UK come around, make sure you vote for those that are more likely to express your views.

Do you really attempt to disrupt the business of people going about their day in occupations? I could see making your presense known, but why target and disrupt their actions or movements? Is that really an effective way to change government policy?

Is there any situation in which you would support the use of military force? If so, what would that be?
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Old 01-12-2003, 04:30 PM   #19
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Thanks dreadsox, I know you might not agree with my opinions about Iraq, but I really like that you respect people's right to express their opinion on this issue. Like you said a few posts back, it's "democracy in action"

STING, I thought in 2001 I was voting for the party that most closely represented my views. I didn't know then that Blair was going to support attacking Iraq (although maybe I should have realised after his support for the bombing of Kosovo). I definitely didn't support everything the Labour Party did then, but considering that I had a choice of Labour, Tories, Lib Dems or UKIP, Labour were closest. To be honest, I don't think I could bring myself to vote for Labour again, particularly after Blair's actions on this issue. So I agree with you, next election if there is a candidate who more accurately expresses my views, then I'll certainly vote for them.

As for whether causing disruption is a way to change government policy, I think it is. I'll give just one example: two train drivers in Scotland recently refused to move a train which was carrying weapons to a military base. They refused because of their opposition to Iraq. That might seem like a small action, but not only did it disrupt the war machine, it got national publicity here and it inspired thousands of antiwar activists. And what's more, the government will have known about it, the military will have known about it, they'll know that two people are so against this war that they refused to carry out their work because of it. If the government knows that thousands of people will take similar action, maybe walking out of their job for an hour, even going on strike for a day, then they'll have to think carefully about whether they can afford to support attacking Iraq.

I realise I didn't explain very clearly before, but actually in the occupation I used as an example, we weren't necessarily trying to shut down the building as it contained lecture theatres which students had lectures in, so instead we didn't try to disrupt lectures but talked to students as they went in and out of lectures and asked lecturers if we could have two minutes of their lecture to explain to students what we were doing.

And could I ever support military action? Well I wouldn't say I'm a pacifist, so I don't simply oppose ALL military action, but to be honest I couldn't think of a hypothetical scenario in which I would support military action.
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Old 01-12-2003, 05:28 PM   #20
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Is there any military action from history that you think was necessary?
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