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Old 12-04-2004, 05:01 PM   #1
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no one is morally responsible

Ok folks here's the basic argument:
1) you do what you do because of you are
2) in order to be morally responsible for what you do, you must be responsible for who you are
3) in order to be responsible for who you are, you must have intentionally brought who you are about
4) you cannot intentionally bring about yourself
thus,
we are not morally responsible
....any thoughts?
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Old 12-04-2004, 05:03 PM   #2
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Old 12-04-2004, 05:03 PM   #3
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Sounds like bullshit to me.

I think we are each responsible for what we choose to do.
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Old 12-04-2004, 06:26 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
This is not helping my migrane.
Are you still getting those?
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Old 12-04-2004, 06:40 PM   #5
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Are you still getting those?
Not as bad as two years ago.....but this week....four of the last five days.
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Old 12-04-2004, 07:14 PM   #6
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I think everyone, universally, has an innate sense of right and wrong. It's part of what makes us human....
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Old 12-04-2004, 07:22 PM   #7
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what stars said. people have consciences no matter how they are brought up. whether or not they listen to it is entirely different.
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Old 12-04-2004, 07:53 PM   #8
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Re: no one is morally responsible

Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet
....any thoughts?
My thought is that it is grasping at straws in a roundabout way in an attempt to gain a simple cop out for one's actions. However, the logic used is flawed.
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Old 12-04-2004, 08:01 PM   #9
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Re: no one is morally responsible

Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet

2) in order to be morally responsible for what you do, you must be responsible for who you are
Maybe I'm missing something, but wtf? What kind of conclusion is that?
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Old 12-04-2004, 09:15 PM   #10
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What stars said will do for me as well.
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Old 12-05-2004, 03:07 AM   #11
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Old 12-05-2004, 04:49 AM   #12
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I agree with stars as well.
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Old 12-05-2004, 10:25 AM   #13
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I dunno if I fully agree with Stars.s viewpoint. All humans are imperfect and will naturally lean towards what is wrong. We have to train ourselves on a daily basis to lean towards the right way. But what if there is no one or nothing there to point you to what is right? Or what if that one or thing is pointing you in a f**cked up direction and you head that way?

True we all have consciences, but we can either feed it good or corrupt things. We have to train or heart/conscience to do what is right. My 1.5 worth of cents.

(Tell you something, you'll never see this type of thread on the Britney Spear's website)
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Old 12-05-2004, 10:28 AM   #14
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We all have a conscience. Aren't pedophiles responsible for their doings?
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Old 12-05-2004, 12:03 PM   #15
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I believe we are all responsible for our actions. Some of us have warped and misguided (pedophiler is a good example) consciences though.
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Old 12-05-2004, 12:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by ludwig72
I dunno if I fully agree with Stars.s viewpoint. All humans are imperfect and will naturally lean towards what is wrong. We have to train ourselves on a daily basis to lean towards the right way.

True we all have consciences, but we can either feed it good or corrupt things. We have to train or heart/conscience to do what is right. My 1.5 worth of cents.

Well my question to you would be if you accept what you are saying...then where do you get your concept of "right way" and "what is wrong".

If you telling someone that they are "wrong" or "right", you are appealing to same kind of standard of behavior which you expect that person to know about. When telling someone that they are right or wrong..they will nearly always try to make out that what has been done does not really go against the standard...they don't act as no standard exists, they just try to mold it so it would appear that it wasn't breached.

Now a person is always free to disobey this sense if they want. But if they do so to an extreme the individual will be removed from society, ie. criminals.

Perhaps you might say that several different civiliazations have different mores and morality. True, to an extent....mores and not morality differ. Name a single country where it is considered honarable to run away in battle, for example, or where double crossing everyone and everything is acceptable....it's inconcievable. Morality is congruent across the board. Mores, can have differences but still have the same basic concept. For example Americans may differ with Africans on the amount of wives one may have...but there is still the basic underlying principle that you may not simply have any woman you like.

So my point is...there is an innate sense of have we all, as humans, ought to behave. And secondly, just because that sense is there doesn't mean we keep it--I break it all the time. I can recall times where I have been less than kind to a person, or excuses I made to justify an action or something as 'minor' as that....but I KNEW I was doing something wrong. And that's where I agree with you...the law of human nature is there but it is one that isn't always kept...but it's still there.
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Old 12-05-2004, 01:37 PM   #17
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Well my question to you would be if you accept what you are saying...then where do you get your concept of "right way" and "what is wrong".

Personally, the bible.

If you telling someone that they are "wrong" or "right", you are appealing to same kind of standard of behavior which you expect that person to know about.

Yuppers, any rational person can or should not make someone accountable if they are unaware of the facts.

When telling someone that they are right or wrong..they will nearly always try to make out that what has been done does not really go against the standard...they don't act as no standard exists, they just try to mold it so it would appear that it wasn't breached.

Yuppers, human nature. Sometimes compromise is a dirty word.

Now a person is always free to disobey this sense if they want. But if they do so to an extreme the individual will be removed from society, ie. criminals.

Perhaps you might say that several different civiliazations have different mores and morality. True, to an extent....mores and not morality differ. Name a single country where it is considered honarable to run away in battle, for example, or where double crossing everyone and everything is acceptable....it's inconcievable. Morality is congruent across the board. Mores, can have differences but still have the same basic concept. For example Americans may differ with Africans on the amount of wives one may have...but there is still the basic underlying principle that you may not simply have any woman you like.

Good point about morality. It is always in flux. I was thinking more on the lines of principles. They tend to never change with the tide of society or popular opinion.

So my point is...there is an innate sense of have we all, as humans, ought to behave. And secondly, just because that sense is there doesn't mean we keep it--I break it all the time. I can recall times where I have been less than kind to a person, or excuses I made to justify an action or something as 'minor' as that....but I KNEW I was doing something wrong. And that's where I agree with you...the law of human nature is there but it is one that isn't always kept...but it's still there. [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree with your viewpoint about human nature. So stands the question: why do some actually care about doing something wrong and try to do a better job of improving (not talking about perfection, either), whereas some don't care at all?
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Old 12-05-2004, 01:38 PM   #18
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Ratz, I couldn't figure out how to include your original comments in the highlighted form. Sorry.
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Old 12-05-2004, 03:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by ludwig72

I agree with your viewpoint about human nature. So stands the question: why do some actually care about doing something wrong and try to do a better job of improving (not talking about perfection, either), whereas some don't care at all?

That's a good question. Some may do so only to avoid negative consequenses....but I think most do because they know in thier gut it is the thing to do.

Now the ones who don't care at all... there could be alot of reasons.
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Old 12-05-2004, 04:59 PM   #20
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We all have some amount of apathy, but we all have a conscience as well.
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