My Apologies to the Muslim People

[financeguy]

I don't understand how that work of "art" was a commentary on the suffering of Christ.

Did you read all of my post, as I specified why I thought that it was?

I would have interpreted it as being a commentary on the physicality of the human nature of the suffering of Christ.

 

[XHendrix24]

Did you read all of my post, as I specified why I thought that it was?

I would have interpreted it as being a commentary on the physicality of the human nature of the suffering of Christ.

Waitwait. So if I took a shit on my Joshua Tree CD and said that it represented my pride that U2, being mere humans, could make such a heavenly piece of work, would you believe me?

 

[financeguy]

Waitwait. So if I took a shit on my Joshua Tree CD and said that it represented my pride that U2, being mere humans, could make such a heavenly piece of work, would you believe me?

No.

In Christian, and particularly Catholic iconography, the sufferings of Christ are sometimes "watered down" or under-stated. We have these beautiful artworks from, for example, the Renaissance period which, though beautiful, do not necessarily show reality.
They do not necessarily show the "blood and guts", as it were.

I would see the art-work "Piss-Christ" as being from a similar stream as Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ".

Both uncompromisingly make statements about the reality of Christ's suffering.

Having said, that I understand why people would have had a problem with TAXPAYERS' money being used to finance a controversial art-work..

 

[Irvine511]

wrong post ...

 

[XHendrix24]

No.

In Christian, and particularly Catholic iconography, the sufferings of Christ are sometimes "watered down" or under-stated. We have these beautiful artworks from, for example, the Renaissance period which, though beautiful, do not necessarily show reality.

I would see the art-work "Piss-Christ" as being from a similar stream as Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ".

Both uncompromisingly make statements about the reality of Christ's suffering.

But why use piss? Wouldn't something like blood make that statement a tad more clear? When Christ was beaten and hung on the cross with a crown of thorns on his head, I don't think it was piss that was streaming down his face.

 

[financeguy]

But why use piss? Wouldn't something like blood make that statement a tad more clear? When Christ was beaten and hung on the cross with a crown of thorns on his head, I don't think it was piss that was streaming down his face.

Yes, but it is not for me to dictate to the artist which is more fitting to use.

 

[financeguy]

wrong post ...

How do you mean?

 

[A_Wanderer]

(2) As an atheist, you appear to be inconsistent in that you will happily slag off Islam at every opportunity, but I have yet to read a post of yours criticising the excesses of the Christian right or the misdeeds of terrorists wearing the Christian banner (in the latter case, as I said previously, I can list numerous examples, not least in my own country). I think there is a huge level of ignorance/naivetie on here and possibly in the Western world in general regarding this particular issue of terrorists wearing the Christian banner.

Christian terrorists really rank very low on the scale of terrorists. Their goals are generally not religious in nature, can you name me a purely religious Christian Terrorist organisation that has the means and the support to bring about their own vision of the apocalypse. Are your own Christian terrorist groups purely religious in nature or are they extensions of nationalistic zeal.

I have made my position quite clear; I think that religion is a retrograde force for humanity, I also think that different religions each do different levels of damage and that is dependent on a whole set of different cultural and philosophical variables. In certain conditions Christianity justifies violence and barbarity and we saw that for hundreds of years, the persecution of the Jews by Christians, the forced conversions of individuals, the crusades (although that is a double edged sword with Islam also being at fault) however it seems that the circumstances that justify religiously mandated violence are a lot more prevalent in the Islamic world where we do see genuine religious war being waged between certain sects and other religions and belief systems, governments, ethnic groups. Modern day extremist Christianity does not produce nearly as many suicide bombers, dhimmi laws or mass murderers as radical Islam. The reasons for this are economic prosperity, good government, democracy, human rights and secularism. When the Islamic world can achieve such things then the problems of extremism and terrorism will be greatly diminished and Islam as a faith will be on par with Christianity.

Yes all religions are completely capable of the same barbarism however to be capable of and to actually do are two completely different things. I will decry Christian gangs going off with violent homophobia and bigotry but I just do not see the same levels of violence and support for such violence in the Christian world as seen in the Islamic world. I do not blame people who practice their faith, it is a case of mental conditioning by religious leaders and government.

 

[XHendrix24]

Yes, but it is not for me to dictate to the artist which is more fitting to use.

I can see where you're coming from, I really can, but I really don't think that the artist was trying to pay any kind of tribute. It's fairly obvious that if you cover something with piss/shit, it's not going to be taken as praise. But I guess to each his own.

Even though, in my eyes, that piece of "art" sounds like a disgrace.

 

[financeguy]

Christian terrorists really rank very low on the scale of terrorists. Their goals are generally not religious in nature, can you name me a purely religious Christian Terrorist organisation that has the means and the support to bring about their own vision of the apocalypse. Are your own Christian terrorist groups purely religious in nature or are they extensions of nationalistic zeal.

I would not agree that "Christian terrorists really rank very low on the scale of terrorists". I would also question that any terrorist group has the means and support, at this point, to bring about their own vision of the apocalypse.

Ever hear of these guys, as a particularly bloodthirsty example of terrorists flying the Christian banner:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LRA

 

[80sU2isBest]

Did you read all of my post, as I specified why I thought that it was?

I would have interpreted it as being a commentary on the physicality of the human nature of the suffering of Christ.

I read what you wrote, but frankly, it doesn't give me any clue as to why urine is symbolic of the human nature of the suffering of Christ. I have never heard of pee being a symbol of human suffering.

 

[80sU2isBest]

And you know what? That dude has the legal right to paint that crap if he wants to, but my tax dollars shouldn't have to pay to support his endeavors, whether they're offensive or not. Down with the NEA!

 

[Dreadsox]

Piss Christ Talk in the other room...

there is a big difference between a POW and NEA art.

http://forum.interference.com/t129780.html

 

[financeguy]

And you know what? That dude has the legal right to paint that crap if he wants to, but my tax dollars shouldn't have to pay to support his endeavors, whether they're offensive or not. Down with the NEA!

I agree, taxpayers' money should not be used to finance controversial works of art.

 

[80sU2isBest]

I don't think taxpayers' money should be used to fund any art.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I would not agree that "Christian terrorists really rank very low on the scale of terrorists". I would also question that any terrorist group has the means and support, at this point, to bring about their own vision of the apocalypse.

Ever hear of these guys, as a particularly bloodthirsty example of terrorists flying the Christian banner:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LRA

I am not going to defend Christian terrorists, they can be just as brutal as any other religious minded folk, history has shown Christianity to be one of the most intollerent and violent religions ever, it has opressed a lot of people.

I stand by my statement that Christian terrorism in the present is not as widespread, or recieves as much support from the mainstream believers, as Islamic terrorism does.

I do tend to focus on Islamist terrorism because that is the terrorism prevalent in areas that I have an interest in; the Israeli / Arab conflict, SE Asia, Central Asia and the wider war on terror (misnomer).

 

[financeguy]

I don't think taxpayers' money should be used to fund any art.

I think it's reasonable to have some degree of art funding, e.g. for maintenance of municipal galleries and the like.

 

[80sU2isBest]

I would agree with that.

 

[financeguy]

I do tend to focus on Islamist terrorism because that is the terrorism prevalent in areas that I have an interest in; the Israeli / Arab conflict, SE Asia, Central Asia and the wider war on terror (misnomer).

That's fair enough, I am certainly not denying that Islamist terrorism is a threat.

 

[Rono]

Well, this is the main reason why I think soldiers need a good dose of professionalism training. We wouldn't excuse racism, homophobia, and religious intolerance in the civilian world, so why should we excuse such blatantly unprofessional behavior in the military?

Melon

Do you think it possible to change the mentality of the majority of the soldiers. I thought the most soldiers are people that chose for the army are commng from the lower class that not can find a good job or are to poor for a good education. I think your army is the drain off your society .

 

[80sU2isBest]

Cut the generalizations, Rono, just shut up. You know nothing about the US Army. Nothing.

My best friend was drill seargent in the Army. She is one of the smartest and most respectable people I have ever known. Same goes for her brother, who was in the Air Force.

Don't be disrespecting the people who are willing to put their lives on the line for their country.

 

[melon]

There are lots of very fine and very professional people in the military, just as there are plenty of assholes in the private sector. However, there are pretty defined and harsh means of dealing with problem individuals in the private sector, and there's a general expectation of professionalism that helps prevent misbehavior.

My beef is that I don't feel as if the military is serious when it comes to instilling professionalism in those soldiers who just don't seem to get it. I mean, there's this story. Then there's Abu Ghraib. Then there's the military academy that was so rabidly Christian to the point of being abusive to non-Christians. There's seemingly no expectation of professionalism in the military that there is in the private sector; and that's what I want the military to work on.

Melon

 

[80sU2isBest]

I undertsand, completely, melon, and have no beef with what you said. Rono's statement just pulled my ripcord of frustration, I guess.

 

[AvsGirl41]

I am not going to defend Christian terrorists, they can be just as brutal as any other religious minded folk, history has shown Christianity to be one of the most intollerent and violent religions ever, it has opressed a lot of people.

I stand by my statement that Christian terrorism in the present is not as widespread, or recieves as much support from the mainstream believers, as Islamic terrorism does.

The majority of Muslims do not agree with Islamic fundamentalism or terrorism either. Just as the majority of Christians do not support Christian terrorism.

Neither faith is particularly good at banding together to expel (literally) the violent radicals.

 

[A_Wanderer]

(1) A prison guard pissing on the Koran to psychologically intimidate Muslim prisoners. [/B]

The Hood report clearly states that the guard was relieving himself outside with no intention to do anything sacrilegious and even afterwards he was posted to gate duty. This was not an intentional move to psycologically intimidate a prisoner.

 

[BVS]

The Hood report clearly states that the guard was relieving himself outside with no intention to do anything sacrilegious and even afterwards he was posted to gate duty. This was not an intentional move to psycologically intimidate a prisoner.

I'm glad that some believe that, otherwise our tax dollars would be a waste.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Whatever, until you can show me something new and shocking about Guantanamo (rendition of high level terrorists overseas before being handed over to the US is where the real abuse and torture would go on; Phillipines, Indonesia, Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia are of much more concern than the camp that everybody knows about and has the most oversight and attention payed to it) I consider the entire thing to be a storm in a toilet.

 

[BVS]

Whatever, until you can show me something new and shocking about Guantanamo (rendition of high level terrorists overseas before being handed over to the US is where the real abuse and torture would go on; Phillipines, Indonesia, Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia are of much more concern than the camp that everybody knows about and has the most oversight and attention payed to it) I consider the entire thing to be a storm in a toilet.

Who are you fucking kidding? He just happened to piss on a Koran while "releiving" himself? What world are you living in?

 

[A_Wanderer]

So he did the ultimate trick shot, he was pissing through an air vent to deliberately to hit the Koran. Frankly if you wanted to intimidate the prisoner wouldn't it be a lot simpler to just get urine on the damn thing rather than walking outside the block, matching up positions and going for it.

 

[BVS]

So he did the ultimate trick shot, he was pissing through an air vent to deliberately to hit the Koran. Frankly if you wanted to intimidate the prisoner wouldn't it be a lot simpler to just get urine on the damn thing rather than walking outside the block, matching up positions and going for it.

Who pisses in an airvent? You're being fucking naive. No one, I repeat NO ONE is that fucking naive!!!