February 5, 2008 Super Tuesday

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Diemen said:


So you're saying that the war in Iraq is essentially a civil war in a relatively poor country?
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No, I said the Korean war was essentially a civil war which is not the situation that you have in Iraq. That Iraq "is a Civil War" is the catch phrase Democrats love to use to justify withdrawal. Never mind I guess that Democrats supported military intervention in two real civil wars in the 1990s in Bosnia and Kosovo. Iraq is not a poor country compared to 1950 Korea. In fact, if it was not for Saddam, Iraq could potentially be the riches country in the middle east.
 
Strongbow said:
That Iraq "is a Civil War" is the catch phrase Democrats love to use to justify withdrawal.
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I love how you describe every counter-argument as a "liberal catchphrase."
 
Strongbow said:


No, I said the Korean war was essentially a civil war which is not the situation that you have in Iraq. That Iraq "is a Civil War" is the catch phrase Democrats love to use to justify withdrawal.
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You are the one roughly equating one president and his war to the other. :shrug:

Or maybe the two aren't that comparable. :hmm:
 
Diemen said:


Or maybe the two aren't that comparable. :hmm:
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they are when they need to be in order to justify the indefensible.

it's amazing how one will gloss over the Korean War as "essentially" a civil war, and yet kick and scream and sob about how Sunnis and Shiites slaughtering each other and battling for control of Baghdad somehow isn't a civil war.

facts only exist to be shaped. this is what the WMD fiasco has taught us.
 
Strongbow said:


No, just because someone may be relatively unpopular in the opinion polls during part of their Presidency does not mean that will remain so years later.
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So maybe, just maybe, Bush will still be considered one of the worst presidents in U.S. history 50 years from now.

Oh, and I was just wondering. Is the reason people like Harry Truman so much these days because of his handling of the Korean War?
 
My money is on Clinton but my heart is with Obama.

I'd be happy to lose the money.
 
U2democrat said:


As someone who's a dunce when it comes to math I'm counting on NBC's Chuck Todd to explain it all to me.
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Hahaha.... yes, he's one of the few NBC people I like.
 
Irvine511 said:




they are when they need to be in order to justify the indefensible.
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No, besides being important to US national security, the two wars were comparable in the level of how unpopular they became inside the United States, and how that impacted the Presidents approval rating at the time. Yet, today no one criticizes Truman for his military intervention in Korea and South Korea went on to become one of the wealthiest and strongest nations on the planet with one of the worlds highest standards of living and an important ally to the United States.

it's amazing how one will gloss over the Korean War as "essentially" a civil war, and yet kick and scream and sob about how Sunnis and Shiites slaughtering each other and battling for control of Baghdad somehow isn't a civil war.
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Sectarian violence in mainly one city does not equal a civil war no matter how much you want to kick, scream, sob, dream, or fantasize that it does. The United States military does not consider the conditions they have experienced on the ground in Iraq to be that of a Civil War. There is the potential for a civil war there, but so far it has only been a possibility, not a reality. Pre-mature withrawal as proposed by Obama could make what is only a possibility(a decreasing one) at the moment into a reality.


facts only exist to be shaped. this is what the WMD fiasco has taught us.
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Many that are uninformed about Iraq and the issue of WMD prior to 2003 have that view.
 
Diemen said:


You are the one roughly equating one president and his war to the other. :shrug:

Or maybe the two aren't that comparable. :hmm:
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The only thing I was comparing was both presidents level of unpopularity at the same respective time in their administrations primarily because of a war that had momentarily become unpopular(less than 50% of the country supporting it). The wars are comparable in the sense that they were both important to US national security, and became unpopular with the US public as they went on, hurting each Presidents approval ratings.
 
Surely there must be 1441 other threads where this discussion could be taking place, no?
 
Well I went to vote. Right inside the door at my polling place there were two fresh-faced Obama supporters passing out stickers and stuff. There were also two election wardens telling them to get out of the building. Biff and Buffy refused to move outside because the weather is bad today.

Don't the campaigns spell out to these guys what can and cannot be done close to a polling place. Idiots.
 
maycocksean said:


So maybe, just maybe, Bush will still be considered one of the worst presidents in U.S. history 50 years from now.
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No one knows for sure exactly how the future will judge President Bush, but based on history and fundamental US Security needs, and the difficulties Bush had to face during his time in office, Bush will likely be judged favorably in the future by most, unlike how he is at the moment.

Oh, and I was just wondering. Is the reason people like Harry Truman so much these days because of his handling of the Korean War?
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The Korean War became very unpopular at the time, but the vast majority of people today think Truman was right to intervene in the war and have a more favorable opinion of how he handle it. Its not the whole reason of why Truman is viewed so favorably today, but it is indeed part of it.
 
Oh, and I was just wondering. Is the reason people like Harry Truman so much these days because of his handling of the Korean War?
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not really

harry is loved by so many because be burned 100,000 Japs,
men, women and children to death


don't forget
we are a christian nation
 
Huckabee is the first winner of the day winning in a state that was supposed to go for Romney, West Virginia.
 
deep said:


not really

harry is loved by so many because be burned 100,000 Japs,
men, women and children to death


don't forget
we are a christian nation
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and the reason Harry was unpopular for a little while -- not for 3 years -- is because he removed MacArthur from command in Korea, not because he went to Korea in the first place.

and he desegregated the armed forces.

you are right, we are a Christian nation.
 
Irvine511 said:




and the reason Harry was unpopular for a little while -- not for 3 years -- is because he removed MacArthur from command in Korea, not because he went to Korea in the first place.

and he desegregated the armed forces.

you are right, we are a Christian nation.
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Your living on a different planet if you think the Korean war did not impact Trumans approval ratings beyond simply the removal of MacArthur.
 
Strongbow said:


Your living on a different planet if you think the Korean war did not impact Trumans approval ratings beyond simply the removal of MacArthur.
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i know, it's tough when someone calls you out on your innuendo and wildly misleading "facts" and "parallels."

Truman is not Bush. what they have in common are low approval ratings. Truman's bottom most likely *was* due to the removal of MacArthur, as that's when he hit the 22% you trot out. show me a comparably unpopular decision that Bush has made. and Truman had huge difficulties domestically.

but inaccurately blame it all on the Korean stalemate. that's fine.
 
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Can we drop this tangent, please, guys? It's really outside the point of the thread.
Strongbow said:
Huckabee is the first winner of the day winning in a state that was supposed to go for Romney, West Virginia.
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Wow, McCain only got 1% of the vote. :huh:
 
lynnok said:
Well I went to vote. Right inside the door at my polling place there were two fresh-faced Obama supporters passing out stickers and stuff. There were also two election wardens telling them to get out of the building. Biff and Buffy refused to move outside because the weather is bad today.

Don't the campaigns spell out to these guys what can and cannot be done close to a polling place. Idiots.
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Psh. I was harrassed when I went to vote for President in 2004. A bunch of rabid women dressed in "W stands for Women" t-shirts were yelling angrily at me. I was wearing a shirt with a donkey on it. They were following me for a little bit too. I was appalled!

I don't think those people are allowed within a certain number of feet within a polling place, so I don't know how they managed. It might be because they weren't enforcing it during early voting, but still. :mad:
 
Huckabee 52%
Romney 47%
McCain 1%

Romney had the most votes after the first round but the rules of that contest are that someone has to get a majority, so in the second round the McCain supporters pretty much all went for Huckabee. Obviously a very dumb process. Our version of democracy is really weird sometimes.
 
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Yeah there are rumors that McCain's people called his reps in WV and asked them to support Huckabee rather than giving Romney the win.
 
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