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Old 10-17-2007, 09:40 PM   #21
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Originally posted by Irvine511
even if such a hypothesis were theoretically true, what would it matter?
It means all the dumb white people out there can have an ironic sense of superiority. All the ones with intelligence will find this "study" to be crap anyway.
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Old 10-17-2007, 10:40 PM   #22
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It means all the dumb white people out there can have an ironic sense of superiority. All the ones with intelligence will find this "study" to be crap anyway.


i hear you, but i guess what i'm wondering is if we can determine that any one group is less intelligent, or more intelligent (like, say, Ashkenazi Jews), does it affect how one might make policy in any way, shape, or form? i'm sure some idiots will take comfort in the fact that their group is supposedly smarter than another (working under this assumption), but as real world applications go, what is the "worth" of this knowledge?
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Old 10-17-2007, 11:05 PM   #23
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I don't know, but Watson's own phrasing seems to suggest he thinks there's a "worth" to it:
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The 79-year-old geneticist said he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really."
So, we're wasting all that aid on people too dumb to be reasonably expected to benefit from it, I guess? (And perhaps by extension, domestic programs aimed at socioeconomically disadvantaged children, etc. are wastes of time too?)
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Old 10-17-2007, 11:09 PM   #24
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So, we're wasting all that aid on people too dumb to be reasonably expected to benefit from it, I guess? (And perhaps by extension, domestic programs aimed at socioeconomically disadvantaged children, etc. are wastes of time too?)


you'd think, then, that they'd need more aid so they don't start swallowing their tongues and become an even bigger mess for the rest of us to have to clean up.

i'm all for asking questions, even ones that are offensive, but i also think it's helpful to understand what motivates the asking of the question.
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Old 10-17-2007, 11:16 PM   #25
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Curiosity?
Future genetic engineering possibilities?

Of course, even those guesses assume that the methods being used reliably reveal whatever it is one assumes they do.
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Old 10-18-2007, 03:18 AM   #26
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I Then all credibility goes out the window with the "ask any employer who employs blacks"
My thoughts exactly. That comment gives the whole game away as far as I'm concerned.


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"bigotry from ignorance" argument just went down the drain.

BVS and I had an interesting discussion on this very topic a few weeks back, and, well, I rest my case. . .
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Old 10-18-2007, 06:23 AM   #27
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A comment to the Times article that I thought was worth emphasizing:

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I am a Black woman living in Scotland. I am educated to PhD level and have to deal with the ignorance and stupidity of White people (not all but far too many) every day. I score well above average in IQ tests and also scored on average higher than my White (and Asian) friends at university. It is often glaringly obvious in my day to day life people I meet consider themselves to be more intelligent that I am, until I open my mouth. Then comes the shock and disbelief that I am intelligent, follwed by insecurity as it dawns on them that I might be more intelligent than they are and then outright hatred because they simply can't cope with that realisation. I usually ignore people like Dr. Watson, whose intelligence is exceeded by their prejudices. The problem is that those incapable of critical thinking will accept what he says because of his status. Those kinds of people will always be left scratching their heads after an encounter with someone like me! Race cannot determine intelligence!
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Old 10-18-2007, 07:10 AM   #28
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More fierce criticism of the eminent scientist is expected as he embarks on a number of engagements to promote a new book ‘Avoid Boring People: Lessons from a Life in Science’. Among his first commitments is a speech to a London audience at the Science Museum on Friday. The event is sold out.
Gee, I wonder if there's a correlation!

Racism for publicity...awesome
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Old 10-18-2007, 08:15 AM   #29
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I thought maybe the title of his book, Avoid Boring People, is his motto. So in order to not be boring he utters this ridiculous garbage.

Well, he together with his colleagues discovered DNA which is great, but obviously it doesn't prove anything.
Hjalmar Schacht was a financial genius, nevertheless he supported Hitler wholeheartedly.
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Old 10-18-2007, 09:37 AM   #30
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<-- this man is more intelligent than 99% of white people.

ETA: Mos Def, I mean. Not me
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Old 10-18-2007, 10:11 AM   #31
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Originally posted by DaveC
<-- this man is more intelligent than 99% of white people.

ETA: Mos Def, I mean. Not me
He's a better musician than I am.
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Old 10-18-2007, 02:48 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




i hear you, but i guess what i'm wondering is if we can determine that any one group is less intelligent, or more intelligent (like, say, Ashkenazi Jews), does it affect how one might make policy in any way, shape, or form? i'm sure some idiots will take comfort in the fact that their group is supposedly smarter than another (working under this assumption), but as real world applications go, what is the "worth" of this knowledge?
I think that it will have an effect on genetic screening of embryos and in some brave new world the engineering of people with greater potential; and that is independent of race.

If the technology exists and I have the money then I would definitely be willing to give my kids such an advantage.

As far as individuals go they are not proof for or against, individuals are not entire populations.
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Old 10-18-2007, 03:42 PM   #33
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How would you see this benefiting society in general?
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Old 10-18-2007, 04:01 PM   #34
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Does it need to benefit society in general?

There are potential benefits for individuals being smart, it crosses over across quite a few pursuits. If more people are at that upper threshold then it would have concequences both positive and negative.
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Old 10-18-2007, 04:20 PM   #35
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The consequence would be that people with lesser income basically could give up their hopes that their child will have a better future as it would be extremely unlikely for the kid to be able to compete with those engineered.
A dream come true for any Social Darwinist.
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Old 10-18-2007, 04:40 PM   #36
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I doubt that we will ever see utopia or dystopia, things always continue.
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Old 10-18-2007, 09:42 PM   #37
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Nobel-winning biologist apologizes for remarks about blacks


LONDON, England (CNN) -- Nobel laureate biologist Jim Watson apologized "unreservedly" Thursday for stating that black people were not as intelligent as whites, saying he was "mortified" by the comments attributed to him.

"I cannot understand how I could have said what I am quoted as having said," Watson said during an appearance at the Royal Society in London.

"I can certainly understand why people, reading those words, have reacted in the ways that they have."

"To all those who have drawn the inference from my words that Africa, as a continent, is somehow genetically inferior, I can only apologize unreservedly. That is not what I meant. More importantly from my point of view, there is no scientific basis for such a belief," he said.

Watson, 79, an American who won the 1962 Nobel prize for his role in the discovery of the double-helix structure of DNA, told the Sunday Times he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says not really."
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/eu...nobel.apology/
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Old 10-18-2007, 09:55 PM   #38
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pffft

His apology rings hollow.
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Old 10-19-2007, 07:58 AM   #39
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Let me guess, he was taken out of context?
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Old 10-19-2007, 08:39 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I think that it will have an effect on genetic screening of embryos and in some brave new world the engineering of people with greater potential; and that is independent of race.

If the technology exists and I have the money then I would definitely be willing to give my kids such an advantage.

As far as individuals go they are not proof for or against, individuals are not entire populations.
Wanderer-

This is scary thinking.

dbs
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