INDY500 said:
Would Western secular values even exist without Christianity?
Yes, for the most part, since secular values have their ultimate origin in Greco-Roman philosophy. Christianity did make only two notable contributions to Western philosophy, and that was through the writings of St. Augustine of Hippo and St. Thomas Aquinas. Augustine's contributions had nothing to do with secularism, as his writings were in the backdrop of the disintegration of the Roman Empire, whereas Aquinas' writings were heavily influenced by, yes, that same Greco-Roman philosophy--and also by Islamic philosophy via
Al-Andalus ("Moorish Spain").
There's two important things to note about Aquinas:
1) He would have been nothing without the Islamic and Jewish scholars in Spain. Most, if not all, of his exposure to Greco-Roman writings came through translations of Arabic sources done by Spanish Jews. It must be noted that
Al-Andalus was, by far, the most advanced nation in Europe at the time.
2) His contributions, like that of Augustine, are pretty much solely confined to that of Christianity. Neither wrote anything that directly contributed to secularism.
Compare this to Islamic scholars, who, due to the large empire they lived in, stretched all the way from India to the Levant to Spain, covering all the ancient sources of knowledge. Christian Europe, on the other hand, was completely isolated from this, and the Germanic tribes that destroyed the West Roman Empire let their knowledge fall, fading into obscurity.
Islamic scholars, however, not only kept the ancient knowledge alive, but also made massive contributions to further this knowledge, such as in mathematics, astronomy, architecture, philosophy, medicine, and science. This knowledge was heavily concentrated in
Al-Andalus, which then filtered into Western Europe. Plus, as the Christian
Reconquista advanced and pushed out the Moors, they would marvel further at the knowledge left behind and transmitted it further into Europe.
It is quite interesting to note that, by the time of the early Renaissance,
both Christianity and Islam abandoned their pursuit of knowledge, in favor of more strict, conservative religious attitudes that rejected such scholarship as "pagan," and, hence, "evil." As such, the mantle of such scholarship was passed onto Imperial Europe, as the monarchs were still quite enamored with the idea of technological advancement. As such, from the Renaissance onward, the mantle of secularism was furthered by the state and not the church.
As for Jews and the "dhimmi" status, it is wrong to make blanket statements about how they lived in the Islamic world, one way or another. Frankly, it had much to do with the particular school of Islam or the monarch in charge. Spain is a great example of this conundrum. With the fall of Visigothic Spain and the arrival of the Moors, Jews welcomed their arrival, because the Christian Visigoths were heavily anti-Semitic. As such, Jews fared very well in Islamic Spain for the most prosperous first few hundred years. As more conservative Northern African tribes invaded Spain, Islam in Spain became much more intolerant and much less progressive. As such, depending on the ruler, Jews often preferred to live in Christian northern Spain. However, often within a few years, Christians would then resume persecuting Jews, and then they would flee back to Islamic Spain. After the Moors were completely driven out of Spain, it is quite telling that all Muslims and Jews were expelled from Spain, with the majority of Jews then moving to yet another Muslim nation, the growing Ottoman Empire. So no matter what one says about the status of Jews in Europe and in the Muslim world, more often than not, Jews preferred to live in Muslim nations. A tax, after all, was preferable to being killed.
Regardless, one thing is very quite clear, and that neither Christianity nor Islam have made any substantial contributions to the world around them for centuries, instead preferring to focus on moral pronouncements of often dubious substance. I lament the fact that it has really been 700 years since religion was last truly relevant.