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Old 03-09-2016, 01:16 PM   #381
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Will minorities come out and support Bernie like they did Obama? And yes Obama had every name thrown at him, the difference is Bernie IS a socialist. Obama took the high ground and didn't even acknowledge the shit thrown his way (minus the birth certificate)

Bernie has to own it.
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Old 03-09-2016, 01:17 PM   #382
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After next Tuesday, Sanders has basically every single voting location being a place that you would expect to favor him.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/...ets/democrats/

If you look at the delegate targets for each area (which are what the candidates would expect to get in a race that was tied 50-50 nationally), it really isn't that hard to see Sanders meeting those marks. Of course, in a race where he should be trailing Clinton by a few dozen delegates, but instead is trailing her by about 200, it's obvious he wasn't anywhere near the 50-50 mark in national support. Plus, he took an absolute drubbing in the highly black deep-south states which are now all behind him.

He's continuing to creep up on Clinton nationally and if he could get close to a draw in delegates next Tuesday, he could start launching a comeback where he continues to gain on her for the rest of the race. He would need to get ahead to about 53-47 nationally real soon to accomplish this which would lead to much more lopsided victories for him in states like Oregon, for example.

It's also clear that the polls are woefully underestimating youth turnout among other things. Aside from the deep south (where he underperformed), Sanders consistently beat his polling expectations by about ten points everywhere. That bodes pretty bad for Clinton's chances in a lot of states as Sanders managed to turn a 21 point polling average deficit in Michigan to a 2 point victory in a couple of days.
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Old 03-09-2016, 01:21 PM   #383
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Will minorities come out and support Bernie like they did Obama? And yes Obama had every name thrown at him, the difference is Bernie IS a socialist. Obama took the high ground and didn't even acknowledge the shit thrown his way (minus the birth certificate)

Bernie has to own it.

Bernie will get those supporters, but he also draws in previously disenfranchised liberals and white voters (particularly independents). Believe it or not, the latino and asian votes actually don't matter at all when it comes to the electoral college while the black vote can help swing Southern-Nothern divides such as North Carolina or Virginia.

If Sanders were the nominee, he'd have Obama campaigning behind him which would then make him "Obama's heir" which is the same reason blacks have been voting for Clinton. It will be easy to get their vote.
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Old 03-09-2016, 01:26 PM   #384
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As for Bernie. I agree with his policies and I think he can actually win and would do far better than Clinton in the general election. With no corporate support and limited media attention, he's giving Clinton a run for money, outperforming her with independents and has been consistently shown to do far better against the potential Republican nominee in polling. There is absolutely no evidence to support the claim that Clinton is a stronger candidate against the Republicans, so I'm not sure why the media establishment and the party got behind her so damn quickly.

As for what Sanders can accomplish? Whatever Clinton will do, Sanders can do it better by taking the more progressive stance. Again, it's another weird myth that Clinton will "get things done" when it's guaranteed that there will be a Republican House after this election.
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Old 03-09-2016, 01:29 PM   #385
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Will minorities come out and support Bernie like they did Obama? And yes Obama had every name thrown at him, the difference is Bernie IS a socialist. Obama took the high ground and didn't even acknowledge the shit thrown his way (minus the birth certificate)

Bernie has to own it.

Bernie Sanders isn't a socialist. He's wrong for once upon a time describing himself as one, and anyone who understands socialism knows that Bernie Sanders would have to overthrow our system to be a socialist.
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Old 03-09-2016, 01:30 PM   #386
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Will the American voters know the difference?


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Old 03-09-2016, 01:31 PM   #387
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It comes down to saying whether the rich have too much or whether being a racist is acceptable in 2016.

I think the American people will easily decide with the former.




On another note, Sanders only lost blacks in Michigan by a 2-1 margin compared to 9-1 in Mississippi...and that's in spite of Clinton doing everything in her power to try and capitalize on the Flint water crisis. Seems the extra attention giving to the state by both candidates only managed to make more people switch over to camp Bernie. Personally, I think Clinton's pandering in Michigan may have been her most nauseating yet and I get the feeling that a lot of voters could see through it.

It was Sander's best performance among blacks so far in fact.
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Old 03-09-2016, 01:34 PM   #388
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Will the American voters know the difference?


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Ding.
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Old 03-09-2016, 01:54 PM   #389
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Bernie will get those supporters, but he also draws in previously disenfranchised liberals and white voters (particularly independents). Believe it or not, the latino and asian votes actually don't matter at all when it comes to the electoral college while the black vote can help swing Southern-Nothern divides such as North Carolina or Virginia.

If Sanders were the nominee, he'd have Obama campaigning behind him which would then make him "Obama's heir" which is the same reason blacks have been voting for Clinton. It will be easy to get their vote.

Are these the lies they're trying to sell you on berniefanboy.com?

Hispanic vote doesn't matter? Is that why both sides are fighting tooth and nail to court them? Somehow you're privy to information that all other campaign managers don't have?

When you were interviewing the black people of America did you happen to ask them their views on the new Star Wars as well? Just curious...


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Old 03-09-2016, 02:08 PM   #390
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Will the American voters know the difference?


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I think the seed has been planted that Bernie Sanders is a "Social Democrat" already, with intentions of fighting that battle if it ever came in the general election. It'd be a big deal, for sure. But, I can't imagine all of those previously mentioned demographics caring about an attack on Sanders being "socialist," when the alternative is acting like an oppressive fascist.
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:21 PM   #391
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I think Roger knows how to make the final cut.
... through the fish-eyed lens of tear stained eyes... I can barely define the shape of this moment in time....


Seriously though, watching Trump throw all of those hecklers out of his rally's reminds me of the part of the movie The Wall when Pink was throwing out all of "those people" during the song In The Flesh.
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:35 PM   #392
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I think the seed has been planted that Bernie Sanders is a "Social Democrat" already, with intentions of fighting that battle if it ever came in the general election. It'd be a big deal, for sure. But, I can't imagine all of those previously mentioned demographics caring about an attack on Sanders being "socialist," when the alternative is acting like an oppressive fascist.
What it will lead to is low turnout, which clearly favors Herr Drumpf
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:39 PM   #393
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I'm actually beginning to find some Hillary supporters as irritating as the Bernie bros for their inability or plain old unwillingness to recognize and admit that she also has major electability issues. Do I think she has better odds than Bernie in the general? Yes, and I always have. But the woman is NOT likeable, is perceived to be a major liar, seems to have an aura of entitlement about this being her year which is what leads to sitting back and relying on polls rather than actually getting people out to vote. There are basically 4 kinds of people out there - 1. those who would rather eat shards of glass than vote for Hillary (i.e. most Republicans and many other independents), 2. those who are very excited to vote for her (I believe a smaaaaall number of mostly older women), 3. those who would vote for her because the other side is a total shit show but will do so holding their nose (probably a lot of independents, give or take who the GOP rep is) and 4. Democrats who will vote for a democrat no matter what.

Once you remove #1, you are left with three groups, of which only the smallest one has any enthusiasm. #3 and #4 are not the people who will go balls out volunteering and getting out the vote. Not for Hillary, anyway.

And yet so many Hillary supporters run around smugly criticizing Bernie's supporters as dreamers, calling them kids and other names to minimize their impact, and keep citing her resume as a great selling point. Wake up, clearly many of your fellow citizens don't give half a crap about resumes, experience or anything of the sort this year!

Really worrisome when the alternative is an orange bowel movement.
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:50 PM   #394
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What it will lead to is low turnout, which clearly favors Herr Drumpf

Does it? I think Trump is utterly unpredictable. I don't know who that would favor. But I also don't see low turnout for those two candidates. While I get that they might have some people who say "hell no," I feel like head to head the same people saying hell no might also be saying hell no across the isle. A democrat who isn't in support of Sanders and won't vote for him is probably more likely to vote for him if he's up against Trump. That works both ways. I feel like a Trump-Sanders election would produce good turnout.
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Old 03-09-2016, 03:08 PM   #395
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Are these the lies they're trying to sell you on berniefanboy.com?

Hispanic vote doesn't matter? Is that why both sides are fighting tooth and nail to court them? Somehow you're privy to information that all other campaign managers don't have?

When you were interviewing the black people of America did you happen to ask them their views on the new Star Wars as well? Just curious...
I'm making my assessment based on a FiveThirtyEight article...most of the Asians/Latinos in this country are in states that aren't even close to being swing ones. The non-white demographics of this country are important, especially in down-ballot races. But as far as the Electoral College is concerned, Latinos and Asians have almost no effect on the outcome as they are concentrated in heavily Blue and Red states.

And again, non-white voters matter greatly in the primaries for the Democratic Party. I was merely referring to the general election.

I don't even know what point you are trying to make about black voters with that comment.
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Old 03-09-2016, 03:12 PM   #396
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But Trump will easily collect the young vote, the black vote, the female vote, the Latino vote, etc over Trump. .
That's politician speak right there.
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Old 03-09-2016, 04:14 PM   #397
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I'm making my assessment based on a FiveThirtyEight article...most of the Asians/Latinos in this country are in states that aren't even close to being swing ones. The non-white demographics of this country are important, especially in down-ballot races. But as far as the Electoral College is concerned, Latinos and Asians have almost no effect on the outcome as they are concentrated in heavily Blue and Red states.

And again, non-white voters matter greatly in the primaries for the Democratic Party. I was merely referring to the general election.

I don't even know what point you are trying to make about black voters with that comment.

They may not "matter" in swing states, but if you lose them or don't get them out they may turn other states into swing states, so to say they don't matter in general elections is silly.

My point is simple; stop speaking on other people's behalf! You don't know why or if black voters will vote for Sanders, you don't speak for middle aged women, you don't know why Lena Dunham is voting the way she is voting; stop pretending otherwise.


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Old 03-09-2016, 06:11 PM   #398
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread Part VI

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That's politician speak right there.

Haha that was a total brain fart. I meant Sanders will easily collect those demographics. Thankfully my redundancy avoids backlash 😅
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Old 03-09-2016, 07:46 PM   #399
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I'm actually beginning to find some Hillary supporters as irritating as the Bernie bros for their inability or plain old unwillingness to recognize and admit that she also has major electability issues. Do I think she has better odds than Bernie in the general? Yes, and I always have. But the woman is NOT likeable, is perceived to be a major liar, seems to have an aura of entitlement about this being her year which is what leads to sitting back and relying on polls rather than actually getting people out to vote. There are basically 4 kinds of people out there - 1. those who would rather eat shards of glass than vote for Hillary (i.e. most Republicans and many other independents), 2. those who are very excited to vote for her (I believe a smaaaaall number of mostly older women), 3. those who would vote for her because the other side is a total shit show but will do so holding their nose (probably a lot of independents, give or take who the GOP rep is) and 4. Democrats who will vote for a democrat no matter what.

Once you remove #1, you are left with three groups, of which only the smallest one has any enthusiasm. #3 and #4 are not the people who will go balls out volunteering and getting out the vote. Not for Hillary, anyway.

And yet so many Hillary supporters run around smugly criticizing Bernie's supporters as dreamers, calling them kids and other names to minimize their impact, and keep citing her resume as a great selling point. Wake up, clearly many of your fellow citizens don't give half a crap about resumes, experience or anything of the sort this year!

Really worrisome when the alternative is an orange bowel movement.
Bingo. I'm frustrated by both groups' supporters for different reasons. Both are far from locks in the general election right now.
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Old 03-09-2016, 08:35 PM   #400
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