What is un-challenging music?

[Flying FuManchu]

I've heard this term/ phrase (also written as "musically un-challenging") thrown around on this board and used to describe the new U2 album How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb. I'm assuming the phrase does not just refer to the "music" alone but also is a reference to the lyrics as well. Basically, it is a judgement on a song as a whole or maybe an album as a whole.

I guess, (with U2 as a frame of reference), what is "un-challenging music?" Is it lack of complexity? Is it repetition of elements? Does "un-challenging music" mean un-listenable music with no catchiness/ hooks at all?

What is a "challenging" song in U2's catalogue? Fourth of July? I'd like to understand.

 

[bathiu]

hmm... I'm not sure, because I like HTDAAB very much...
I think that maybe "un-challenging" means to predictable... for example SYCMIOYO... it's the same structure as One, WOWY...etc... the music is slowly "building" the emotions to "exploding" end of the song... I realy can't say what is "un-challenging" on HTDAAB...

But I can give you an essay on ATYCLB being "un-challenging"... in fact ATYCLB is so "un-challenging" it's even insulting...

 

[mackemlad]

To me challenging music means no matter how much I listen I cant find anything to like in the song.

Examples from U2 are

Pretty much the second half of UF
Elvis Presley and America and fourth of july inparticular.

Miami,Playboy mansion and if you wear that velvet dress off POP

Other examples that spring to mind

Radiohead post Ok Computer
Rem New adventure in HIFI

Challenging music=It is a challenge to listen to the song a test of endurance to see if you can get to the end without skipping the song.

To me that is not what "popular" music is about

Give me the hook, the chorus, melody anyday.

Sorry but I dont see Sometimes as having same structure as One.

I do agree though that the new album maybe is a little to instant and because of that the affection for the album may wane in time

 

[bathiu]

ohh yeah... the live version of 'One'...

 

[Flying FuManchu]

To me challenging music means no matter how much I listen I cant find anything to like in the song....

Challenging music=It is a challenge to listen to the song a test of endurance to see if you can get to the end without skipping the song.

LOL

I do agree though that the new album maybe is a little to instant and because of that the affection for the album may wane in time

I feel the same way as well.

 

[rjhbonovox]

HTDAAB is unchallenging music. Listen to it once and you get all the hooks. Its just toooo immediate. Too many repetetive choruses. That is unchallenging music. After a few plays the album becomes boring to listen too. That is unchallenging music. Music that you can listen to in the background cos when you miss the chorus the first time don't worry its coming round again and again soon. That is unchallenging music! Didn't used to be like this with U2 but has been for the past 2 albums.

 

[MrBrau1]

If HTDAAB is unchallenging, then JT, AB, and War are unchallenging as well. U2 songs typically have 3 chorus sections. It's how they write and it's been constant.

 

[FullonEdge2]

HTDAAB really is not instant music. My friend bought it with me the first day it was out, and none of the tracks save Vertigo stuck with him instantly. As a result, he had to ask me what song that was that U2 played at the Grammys (He didn't even know!)

There are maybe 2 or 3 immediately catchy songs on HTDAAB, but the rest takes some effort on the listener's part to enjoy.

That said, I made the effort to grab on to the challenging songs of HTDAAB, and I enjoy them immensely. I don't think these songs are going to wane over time.

I like mackemlad's definition of challenging music, but I also think music can be challenging while still enjoyable, such as the majority of HTDAAB.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

HTDAAB is unchallenging music. Listen to it once and you get all the hooks...

Well aren't hooks catchy by nature? Sort of like after the first time you hear the hook, it's easy to get?

 

[Shade]

The only truly unchallenging U2 record, in my opinion, is ATYCLB. Sonically, it's the least ambitious album they've ever released. Why? Because, they were content to "sound like themselves" rather than push the limits of what they can do, which they'd been doing since the beginning. Suddenly, they just stopped. There's no real challenge in resting on something you've already done, doing what comes easiest. They did get a little bit of the adventure back with tracks like "A Man And A Woman", "Love And Peace Or Else" and "Fast Cars". Still, HTDAAB isn't anywhere close to the adventures that albums like WAR and The Unforgettable Fire and Rattle & Hum and Achtung Baby and Zooropa and OS1 and POP presented. And, that's a shame. The evolutionary drive of U2, the continual search for "things to make and do", is what I've liked best about them in the past.

 

[rjhbonovox]

If HTDAAB is unchallenging, then JT, AB, and War are unchallenging as well. U2 songs typically have 3 chorus sections. It's how they write and it's been constant.

This is bullshit. Achtung Baby had choruses but no where near as much as the last two albums. Now if you think Zoo Station, Until The End Of the World, The Fly, Tryin to throw, Acrobat, Love Is Blindness have repetetive choruses then you don't know what your listening to. Same with The Joshua Tree, Where the streets doesn't have that instant chorus hook, yes it has a choru but it is not fuc#ing repetetive, neither is with or without you(does it have what you can call verse/chorus structure) nope does it fuc#. Running to stand still, Exit, Mothers of the disappeared....do these have chorus/verse/chorus/verse structure? Do they hell. If you think that U2's method of songwriting is not different on the past 2 albums then I don't know what your listening to. This is probably how they wanted it, to make an album or two that are FULL of singalong singles, its just they used to make different music. In fact they used to make challenging music!

 

[Axver]

Unchallenging music is pop fluff, ear candy produced by record studios for the mindless MTV masses.

Anyone with a brain can tell you that U2 does not make that. Challenging music makes you think and feel, which is basically what U2's all about. Now just as much as ever.

 

[bathiu]

Unchallenging music is pop fluff, ear candy produced by record studios for the mindless MTV masses.

Great... or maybe the best description of ATYCLB I've ever seen...

 

[rjhbonovox]

Unchallenging music is pop fluff, ear candy produced by record studios for the mindless MTV masses.

Anyone with a brain can tell you that U2 does not make that. Challenging music makes you think and feel, which is basically what U2's all about. Now just as much as ever.

Yep they maybe not quite as bad as the pop shite about but they are not far off with their newer material. Tracks such as SYCMIOYO/ All Because of you/A man and a woman/cobl/ stuck in a moment/ elevation, are bordering on the throwaway pop music genre.

 

[MrBrau1]

This is bullshit. Achtung Baby had choruses but no where near as much as the last two albums. Now if you think Zoo Station, Until The End Of the World, The Fly, Tryin to throw, Acrobat, Love Is Blindness have repetetive choruses then you don't know what your listening to. Same with The Joshua Tree, Where the streets doesn't have that instant chorus hook, yes it has a choru but it is not fuc#ing repetetive, neither is with or without you(does it have what you can call verse/chorus structure) nope does it fuc#. Running to stand still, Exit, Mothers of the disappeared....do these have chorus/verse/chorus/verse structure? Do they hell. If you think that U2's method of songwriting is not different on the past 2 albums then I don't know what your listening to. This is probably how they wanted it, to make an album or two that are FULL of singalong singles, its just they used to make different music. In fact they used to make challenging music!

Calm down Chuckles. I stand by my previous post, U2 have always been a verse/chorus band in their songwriting.

 

[MrBrau1]

Yep they maybe not quite as bad as the pop shite about but they are not far off with their newer material. Tracks such as SYCMIOYO/ All Because of you/A man and a woman/cobl/ stuck in a moment/ elevation, are bordering on the throwaway pop music genre.

You need to listen to the lyrics. Calling some of these tracks throwaway proves you haven't.

 

[rjhbonovox]

Whats so deep and meaningful about repeating "All Because Of You" 9 times in one song? Or what about "Oh You look so beautiful tonight" 5 times in one song? Is there great hidden depths to these lyrics???

 

[U2DMfan]

I don't know how to define 'challenging' or 'un-challenging' persay, but I can tell you that songs like Mofo, Lemon, Discotheque, HMTMKMKM, and Numb were at least more challenging than the current era of U2.

And by that I mean, more challenging for the pop mainstream listener. Sure, to someone who is into many genres of music and enjoys all sorts, is not going to think any of those songs is particularly groundbreaking, if at all. Moreso, just new incoporations by U2, but it's more challenging to their mainstream fanbase. The kind of folks who listen to coroprate radio, MTV, and like top 40 music etc.

Now, the last two albums to me, are probably more digestable to the masses than the previous. You can see the verse/chorus/verse format throughout U2's history, but the thing with those particular listeners, is that you can fool them if you throw in a synth, then it's suddenly more difficult for some odd reason.

I have always thought U2 made 'smart' pop/rock music. They've never been a real rock band, which is probably what makes them so good, they've never really strayed from the idea of makinga good tune, I just think they've fooled some people by challenging those fans own notions.

UN-challenging music to me is music that is purely saturated pop, designed to have a hook, desgined to sell, designed to be digested and then eventually thrown away. I may not be as much into U2's last two albums, I do think they are both good in many aspects, but I wouldn't say they are un-challenging, I would just say U2 are fooling people in a different way.

 

[U2DMfan]

Whats so deep and meaningful about repeating "All Because Of You" 9 times in one song? Or what about "Oh You look so beautiful tonight" 5 times in one song? Is there great hidden depths to these lyrics???

do you have the count on Sunday Bloody Sunday?

remember that was 22 years ago.

How about In the Name of Love from Pride?

remember that was 21 years ago.

Have you been fooled?

 

[rjhbonovox]

do you have the count on Sunday Bloody Sunday?

remember that was 22 years ago.

How about In the Name of Love from Pride?

remember that was 21 years ago.

Have you been fooled?

Yes but thats my point. You have picked 2 songs which were chosen singles and from 2 albums. I listed them songs that are on the same album. The whole album, and the last album, you could easily release all the songs as singles except for maybe Love and Peace Or Else which, if you look at that song, hasn't got the repetetive shove it down your throat 10 times in a song chorus in it!

 

[MrBrau1]

Whats so deep and meaningful about repeating "All Because Of You" 9 times in one song? Or what about "Oh You look so beautiful tonight" 5 times in one song? Is there great hidden depths to these lyrics???

Where's the depth in repeating "Where the Streets Have No Name" 2 times in the chorus of that song?

Or With Or Without You 2 times in the chorus of that tune?

Or Sunday Bloody Sunday 2 times in the chorus of that song?

You're upset because they say All because of you 3 times in the chorus of that song?

You must HATE Gloria and Electric Co. Damn big chorus songs.

 

[Axver]

Yep they maybe not quite as bad as the pop shite about but they are not far off with their newer material. Tracks such as SYCMIOYO/ All Because of you/A man and a woman/cobl/ stuck in a moment/ elevation, are bordering on the throwaway pop music genre.

Wow. You just made your own opinion worthless by your sheer ignorance. I feel sorry for you.

 

[U2DMfan]

well, I understand what you are getting at but the point is, this is nothing new for U2, or any band for that matter.

again, try it with other songs from those albums, those are just two examples, New Years Day, Two Hearts Beast as One, listen to the Joshua Tree
Streets has a chorus that repeats
Still Havent FOund also
WOWY also
BUllet the Blue Sky also
Red Hill Mining Town also
One Tree Hill also
In God's Country

c'mon, you get the point. U2 have always had songs full of choruses that repeat.

 

[MrBrau1]

Yes but thats my point. You have picked 2 songs which were chosen singles and from 2 albums. I listed them songs that are on the same album. The whole album, and the last album, you could easily release all the songs as singles except for maybe Love and Peace Or Else which, if you look at that song, hasn't got the repetetive shove it down your throat 10 times in a song chorus in it!

Surrender-Tons of chorus. Non-single.

Red Hill Mining Town-Tons of chorus. Non Single.

Acrobat-Tons of chorus. Non Single

Gone-Tons of chorus. Non single

And on, and on, and on.

 

[U2DMfan]

I believe that's the sound of Rj being dismantled.

 

[MrBrau1]

His favorite album better be OS1. And I'm sure he loves "Viva Davidoff" because of its lack of verse, chorus, bridge, or anything resembling a song.

 

[Sleep Over Jack]

I believe that's the sound of Rj being dismantled.

 

[rjhbonovox]

Ahhh stop picking on me! You guys are obviously obsessed with a singalong tune. If you can't singalong to it, you don't wanna know, go on admit it!

 

[Flying FuManchu]

I believe POP had a lot of repetive moments such as choruses or phrases repeated ad nauseum.

So is repetition a bad thing? Dance music, techno, hip hop, etc... repetition isn't looked down upon. Repetition, be it musically or lyrically is taken advantage of in a lot of that type of music and I believe people accept that kind of material as good stuff.

 

[Axver]

Ahhh stop picking on me! You guys are obviously obsessed with a singalong tune. If you can't singalong to it, you don't wanna know, go on admit it!

I can't sing. If U2 ever make a song I can sing along to, you know Bono has been replaced by two strangled cats.