U2's fork in the road and the path chosen.

[salim117]

So the experimental band that was U2 is now one that's atop of their game creating top of the line albums while working within their "confort zone".
U2 had gone 5 albums (from Joshua Tree to POP) where they did anything BUT play it safe. The shift from JT to R&H was huge and risky. They did what they wanted. Then from R&H to Achtung Baby, well what can I say, that left us all in a daze! Where in the hell did that come from! A sheer act of brilliance! Then, when we thought they couldn't take it any farther, came Zooropa. Wow, totally out there, as non-comercial as a band like U2 could get! Oh, how proud I was to be a fan of such an innovative, we're-all-about-the-music, rock geniouses band!

Then came PoP, rushed out of the oven a bit to quickly according to the band; just perfect for my taste. Again, like their previous two, this was no music-for-the-masses album, you had to listen to it several times to start appreaciating its depth; you had to peal through the layers.
But what happened next changed the course of U2 history forever.
1. Critics didn't like it.
2. Album didn't sell as expected in US ( though 3x platinum isn't bad last I checked)
3. No hit singles.
4. Tour didn't sell out.
5. Band, without sponsorship had to dish out $250,000 per gig and tour almost bankrupted.


So the band ,who was freaked out, said fuck that, mainstream is where the fandom,recognition, and "relevance" is and so "ATYCLB" was born. Then they said fuck that, touring "smart" is where the money is, so they scaled down production, doubled ticket prices , and so The Elevation tour came to a city near you!
I loved the Elevation tour and ATYCLB. At the time I might have been caught up in the joy of getting a new album from the band but I doesn't seem to have "aged" well. I doesn't seem to stand up well against any of its 5 predecesors and it's only been 4 years.
Regardless, the album was a hit, America fell in love with U2 again, and they were again the biggest band in the world.

So (i think in some indirect way) Adam, Bono,Larry , & Edge looked at the success of that album and agreed in that being innovative and reinventing themselfs isolated some "fans" and made them not-so radio-friendly. As Bono made clear in the kots intervey, relavence ,according to U2, is being heard and liked by as many as possible. So the success of ALYCLB coupled with PoPs' lukeworm acceptance by casual fans changed our bands path and perspective forever.
And so came HTDAAB, their back to back to basics album where they pushed the boundaries of only what they know works.

HTDAAD is a great record(though I've kind of drifted from it lately) and way better than its predecesor. So those of us who are fans of their 90's unpredictability and musical excentricity will have to realize that we're "stuck" with the greatness of THIS U2. No more alter-egos or alter-sound.No more Zoos, Achtungs, or PoPs, just straight forward rock with pop sensabilities. I can live with that, I just need some time to lower my expectations a tad.

So ,to summarize, I LOVE POP but it fu@&ed with U2's mind enough to make them doubt themselfs and their choices and changed their musical direction.

Just a thought...

 

[Lancemc]

I don't know about that. U2 is ALWAYS looking to do something different...from themselves that is. No doubt ATYCLb was still very different from anything they've done previously, so is Atomic Bomb to an extend. I wouldn't count out another "experimental" album from the boys before they are done. It just seems like they're on a steady straight progression from album to album, each one different from the last. We'll see.

 

[salim117]

I wouldn't count out another "experimental" album from the boys before they are done. It just seems like they're on a steady straight progression from album to album, each one different from the last. We'll see.

I truly hope your right! Though I kinda disagree with you on your second point. HTDAAB was a progresson from ATYCLB in the same way JT was a progression from Unforgettable. It progressed in quality but not sound.

 

[VertigoGal]

I sort of agree with both of you. ATYCLB was mainstream and pop, but it was still different than their earlier stuff. I hope this comfortable place that it's helped them to arrive at, though, doesn't discourage them from experimenting more in the future.

Quick question...how does the cost of this tour compare to the Elevation tour and also to the tours of the 90s? From a fiscal standpoint, I agree that was a pretty cash-in type thing they did with the Elevation tour. I was under the impression this tour had a more expensive production, even if it's not as flashy as Zootv, Popmart, etc. Just wondering, doesn't really matter though I guess.

 

[xana dew]

So ,to summarize, I LOVE POP but it fu@&ed with U2's mind enough to make them doubt themselfs and their choices and changed their musical direction.

Just a thought...

I've had similar thoughts over the years and I do believe you summed it up quite accurately! Nice post.

 

[flangerchorus]

U2 fans always under analyze things

 

[BVS]

Same thread, different title.

 

[salim117]

Same thread, different title.

Only 60% same.
Anyways, it was unfairly closed 5 minutes after i posted it so I changed/addeed some stuff so it wouldn't happen again.

 

[WinnieThePoo]

u2 went for easy money , the star will rise , the star will fall
same thing happened to stones

 

[drt4]

Uncertainty can be a guiding light!

That was U2's motto in the 90's, but it is no longer true, just as salim117 suggests. They are favoring a little bit more certainty these days, which means less excitement.

Taste is the enemy of art.

I also like HTDAAB quite a lot, but I do worry that U2 has forgotten this brilliant phrase that they coined 13 or 14 years ago. They are trying to be a little too tasteful these days.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Experimental doesn't have to equal weird.

I think U2 were experimenting with each step from Boy right through to Pop. For example I think the jump from War to Unforgettable Fire was at least as big as the jump from Achtung to Zooropa. The biggest of course was Rattle & Hum to Achtung. Point is, they were always experimental, never safe.

Anyway, yes, that ended. ATYCLB & HTDAAB aren't exactly stretching their imagination ("Ok, now we need some 'insert emotion here' strings for this part, and then I'll scream at the top of my lungs, then Edge, you bring in that 80's Edge guitar and *presto* the kids will love it because it sounds like U2 except they don't have to think about it this time.....")

And yeah, while I most definitely agree with the sentiment, there are at least 2 other threads on this topic.

 

[Chizip]

5. Band, without sponsorship had to dish out $250,000 per gig and tour almost bankrupted.

I don't know how true this is

U2 had a promoter who guaranteed the band 100 million dollars for their tour. The tour grossed 171 million, so the promoter got 71 million dollars for his risk. I'd say both the band and the promoter had to be happy about the financial aspect of the tour.

But I agree with a lot of the other points you make.

 

[VertigoGal]

I think the stat about the $250,000/night referred to the ZooTV tour if Im not wrong...

 

[Chizip]

no 250,000 is a correct figure for Popmart

ZooTv cost something like 125,000-150,000 per night

Of course ZooTv tickets only cost 25 bucks


Compared to these 2 tours U2 has to realllly be cleaning up with Elevation and Vertigo. High ticket prices + low production costs = $$

 

[david]

U2 don't have to prove anything anymore.

They're not young and hungry anymore. When you get to the top of the mountain you can do whatever you want. They're doing what they want.

 

[VertigoGal]

no 250,000 is a correct figure for Popmart

ZooTv cost something like 125,000-150,000 per night

Of course ZooTv tickets only cost 25 bucks


Compared to these 2 tours U2 has to realllly be cleaning up with Elevation and Vertigo. High ticket prices + low production costs = $$

oh okay...huh. im still curious about production costs this tour. i read the stage itself was 50 million bucks, which sounds like a helluva lot to me, but that could be nothing in U2-land...ugh i hate feeling like im being screwed over.

 

[Chizip]

well don't worry, after you see the concert you wont feel like you got screwed over

 

[salim117]

U2 don't have to prove anything anymore.

They're not young and hungry anymore. When you get to the top of the mountain you can do whatever you want. They're doing what they want.

As long as a band wants to remain relevant they have something to prove. U2's backlog is enough to sustain me through my last days, they have nothing to prove to me. I suspect that's true for most of us. But they keep making records and always tell us that "this is some of their best work".
They themselves have said they are out to prove they are the best and ,regardless of my recent romance w/other bands, I believe they are still;
Regardless, I bet you that if they were "doing what they want" HTDAAB might have been a different album.

 

[Chizip]

complacency leads to irrelevancy (see the rolling stones)

hopefully u2 are still out to prove some things

 

[discothequeLP]

U2 didn't double their ticket prices from Popmart to Elevation, or from Elevation to Vertigo.



. . . and, inflation, anyone? gas used to cost 2 bucks a gallon

 

[salim117]

U2 didn't double their ticket prices from Popmart to Elevation, or from Elevation to Vertigo.



. . . and, inflation, anyone? gas used to cost 2 bucks a gallon

I paid $47.50 for floor level with seats near the front at Popmart. Paid $90 for first level seats for elevation. Paid $160 for almost the same seats for this tour.

...gas prices in the early '80s reached an all time high of almost $3. I paid $17 to see U2 in '87.,

 

[MrBrau1]

U2 don't have to prove anything anymore.

They're not young and hungry anymore. When you get to the top of the mountain you can do whatever you want. They're doing what they want.

Exactly.

I'm amazed how many people think putting drum machines and loops in typical U2 song structures is "pushing boundaries." It's icing.

 

[salim117]

Exactly.

I'm amazed how many people think putting drum machines and loops in typical U2 song structures is "pushing boundaries." It's icing.

Who said anything about drum loops?

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Exactly.

I'm amazed how many people think putting drum machines and loops in typical U2 song structures is "pushing boundaries." It's icing.

Those aren't the things that 'push boundaries'. HTDAAB is absolutely loaded to the teeth with drum machines and loops and wizardary, as much or more so than any U2 album before it. It's easily their most 'produced' album. U2 have used them in one way or another in varying amounts since the mid 80's. They certainly aren't what do or don't define 'pushing boundaries'. They are icing, or simply one option among a wide range of tools.

 

[MrBrau1]

Who said anything about drum loops?

I did.

 

[U2DMfan]

U2 don't have to prove anything anymore.

of course they don't, but they are still trying to prove a lot, I think.

they didn't release HTDAAB with the idea "fuck the public if they don't like it". They used the exact opposite approach.

They are courting public opinion. Do you think it's all about money? I'd guess not. If that's the case, then the only reason they are doing what they are doing is to prove something.

If it's just as simple as "we made a great record that is competing for young minds as mid-40 year old men". It was doing it to prove they can.

It's a lot different than someone like David Bowie making albums with nothing to prove anymore, he's not courting the same audience U2 is.

U2 are making a calcualted effort to be the opposite of the "fuck it" attitude. U2 are not a grown-up rock band throwing caution to the wind with no eye to popularity, they are out to prove to themselves that they are still good enough to be popular, I think.
It's the only reason for them to even do it, I guess.

They don't want to make an art album because it's the cliche of the 45 year old band/musician. You are no longer old enough to be "cool", so you try to be "hip" to fill the niche. I see U2 as trying to defy the whole idea of how a band is looked at when it's in it's 25th year of existence. So, yeah, they are still out to prove a lot, I think.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Yeah, I agree with the above. They are most certainly trying to prove something and they most certainly are not throwing caution to the wind. They're at the top of the mountain, and they desperately, desperately, desperately don't want to leave.

Of course where we disagree is to what degree they had to sell their soul to stay there I think it's nowhere near as much as they have. Not even close.

 

[VertigoGal]

They keep saying they feel they've got something to prove, I hope that's true. they got some backlash this time, and I think/hope they're gonna go in some different direction with their next album.

I really don't think it shows complacency that the last 2 albums have been more pop/mainstream. You may not like them (theyre not my favs), but they are something different for the band. You may say that this reinvention of sorts was caused by the relative disappointment of the Popmart tour, but the Achtung Baby reinvention was also a result of the band being heavily criticised by the media. U2's little "desire to please" may not be one of their best traits, but it *has* been a factor in their evolution and reinventions.

So, erm, I guess what I'm saying is the more pop appeal of the last 2 albums (if not my favorite) doesn't bother me because it's something new for the band. I just hope that the success they've enjoyed with the past 2 albums doesn't result in them feeling they don't have to push or experiment anymore.

I hope that made sense.

oh, and, if you didn't pick up on it, I'm one of the people who doesn't think ATYCLB and Bomb are anywhere near as similar to the 80s U2 as people make it out to be. There's something very different, imo.

As far as ticket prices, I'm sure I'll enjoy the show, but overpricing tickets inherently puts a slight damper on things, methinks. How can I truly believe the person singing to me is as earnest and sincere as he appears to be if he's charging me as a fan more money than he needs to. Not that I'm going to the show cos I think Bono's a good person, but I thought their whole live appeal was connecting with their audience and appreciating their fans. sorry, I knows this has been debated to death.

 

[U2DMfan]

Exactly.

I'm amazed how many people think putting drum machines and loops in typical U2 song structures is "pushing boundaries." It's icing.

Of course, I agree.

Achtung, Zooropa, Pop, were just U2 meeting the digital age.
Drum machines, loops, samples etc.

I mean hardly any of it took rock and roll where it had never been, but it was unique to U2. Edge using more distortion effects, more prevelant synths, image makeovers, and the lyrics were more dire. I think all of it added to the perception of the music.
The reality was that the songs were just a little more interesting musically because it was something that U2 had never sounded like.

When someone says "experimenting", I think this is just how they perceive the interesting sounds. There is nothing really experimental at all about Mofo or Lemon. Mofo uses a synth bass riff, and atmospheric guitar effects, just rock and roll skewed a bit more interesting. Doesn't always make the song better, but I think these were good songs made more interesting. Lemon is a synth-driven song. Gary Numan was doing that shit a decade before, hardly innovation, but it's a good song, made more interesting with the sound textures.

I don't think for a second U2 should go back to making those songs. It worked once, and worked well because of the effect it had to U2's sound, but they could only take it so far.

I'm not sure U2 could go into the studio and do anything innovative or even incorporate anything new to their music short of heavy metal or rap. (Thank God they dont) I think adding those effects, loops, samples, synths parts are all relative to how good the song itself is. Beautiful Day doesn't need that electronic intro to be a great rock song. But I bet it fooled a few people.

 

[flangerchorus]

Beautiful Day doesn't need that electronic intro to be a great rock song. But I bet it fooled a few people.

exactly