U2 Set To Return The Torch To The Police

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STING2 said:


Uh, no I just mentioning the fact that U2 does not agree with your contention that The Police did NOT pass the "torch" to U2.

Its much harder today for bands to have minor or any success than it was back when U2 was coming up. Bono said at the Rock Hall of Fame, that if Boy had come out in 2000 instead of 1980, he would be back working at the gas station by the end of 2001. Every part of the music industry crumbling from the top to the bottom. But if you have a NAME and are big, its one thing to see a 50% decline in your sales, but you will survive, while bands with minor success will be forced to disband and it will be increasing harder for anyone to get their foot in the industry.

I never said The Police didn't pass the torch to U2 back in 1985 (wasn't that it? Live Aid?). I said they didn't take the torch back at the Grammy's.

As for your second point - I only partially agree with this. Bono may be right about Boy, but I think U2 would have had a lot more initial success with Boy today than in 1980 (especially considering all the 80's throwback bands that are oh-so-hip now :wink: ). The internet - specifically things like myspace and iTunes - has made it much, much easier to get your music heard by thousands of people. It's now possible to have a fairly large following without a record label. However, with the sheer breadth of bands now readily available, it's very hard to have staying power when everyone wants to check out the next hyped-up myspace band. I find it very unlikely that any 21st century band will manage to stay together and relevant as long as U2. I hope I'm proven wrong.
 
Re: Re: Re: U2 Set To Return The Torch To The Police

STING2 said:

Perhaps you did not see the performance. You can see it on youtube, and everyone is STANDING!!! Everyone was sitting down when U2 performed "Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own" two years ago.

Well, to be fair, Sometimes is an awful song :wink:
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: U2 Set To Return The Torch To The Police

Earnie Shavers said:


Well, to be fair, Sometimes is an awful song :wink:

:tsk:

Anyway, you're all fools. I have the torch! :rockon: :evil:
 
AtomicBono said:


I never said The Police didn't pass the torch to U2 back in 1985 (wasn't that it? Live Aid?). I said they didn't take the torch back at the Grammy's.

As for your second point - I only partially agree with this. Bono may be right about Boy, but I think U2 would have had a lot more initial success with Boy today than in 1980 (especially considering all the 80's throwback bands that are oh-so-hip now :wink: ). The internet - specifically things like myspace and iTunes - has made it much, much easier to get your music heard by thousands of people. It's now possible to have a fairly large following without a record label. However, with the sheer breadth of bands now readily available, it's very hard to have staying power when everyone wants to check out the next hyped-up myspace band. I find it very unlikely that any 21st century band will manage to stay together and relevant as long as U2. I hope I'm proven wrong.

Just because you hear someone on an internet website is far from meaning there are now more bands being signed to record labels and making "real" money. In the 80s, artist had time to develop, now if you don't sell 500,000 copies of the first album, you risk being dropped from the label. Record companies have less money because of declining sales and can't sign and promote as many artist as they used to.

The internet rather than helping new artist is really killing the business. This is a BUSINESS, and free music does not help it. One does not have a real following unless they are actually making money from that following. Artist have to provide for themselves and their families and making a few hundred dollars playing a bar is not going to cut it in the long run.
 
The Police were great, but they left years ago and while their tour will be great and I will go see them, I'm not sure they could create the same success of say "Synchronicity" much less 'HTDAAB'.

That doesn't mean I think that Sting/Copeland and Summers aren't great musicians or a great band, it's just that they killed their momentum 20+ years ago and past a tour I can't see them doing much...not that they're not capable, but is there a big demand for a Police album? I don't know.
 
Reggie Thee Dog said:
The Police were great, but they left years ago and while their tour will be great and I will go see them, I'm not sure they could create the same success of say "Synchronicity" much less 'HTDAAB'.

That doesn't mean I think that Sting/Copeland and Summers aren't great musicians or a great band, it's just that they killed their momentum 20+ years ago and past a tour I can't see them doing much...not that they're not capable, but is there a big demand for a Police album? I don't know.

Thats pretty much my view on it as well.

Looking forward to the tour. But the only reason this is a bigger deal than U2 is because they havent been together for 20 years. U2 has, and still draw huge crowds and they still make albums. I dont think its much of a comparison really.

Didnt Copeland say they would never do another album together again? I doubt they will. He has always said they would tour again at some point though. So he was right on that. I dont even think they will ever tour again after this one.
 
When the torch actually changes hands, will we hear the theme from Chariots of Fire in the background?

:hyper:
 
toscano said:


big difference, he can't exactly woo all the fans one on one.

some people have no/little "public" charisma (have you ever seen a robert Deniro interview, painful stuff) but can woo a large audience with their personality. Freddie Mercury is another, a painfully shy interviewee, but an absolute monster on stage. Martin has zero stage presence compared to a Bono/Sting/Jagger/Springsteen/Mercury.

Well, you've obviously seen a different Chris Martin to the one I saw in June in Australia. He had charisma and stage presence to burn. :drool:
 
Sorry, but I disagree totally with you (jarvis).
The Police has never been and will never be the best band in the world.... as far as U2 is concerned, even though WITS is not their best song, I don't see them declining that much..... and the last leg of the Vertigo Tour was the best one by far (with the 1st one)... so I don't see how the hell U2 could pass any kind of torsch to The Police....:huh:
 
The Rolling Stones have the torch. After the Beatles broke up, Paul gave it to Mick. Even though there was an alleged rivalry, the two bands got along pretty well. They just kept their friendship on the downlow for appearances.
I dig the Police, but this torch business is all shite. Sting would be the first to tell you that.
 
corianderstem said:
When the torch actually changes hands, will we hear the theme from Chariots of Fire in the background?

:hyper:

torch.jpg


Which one is Sting again? :hmm:
 
STING2 said:


Just because you hear someone on an internet website is far from meaning there are now more bands being signed to record labels and making "real" money. In the 80s, artist had time to develop, now if you don't sell 500,000 copies of the first album, you risk being dropped from the label. Record companies have less money because of declining sales and can't sign and promote as many artist as they used to.

The internet rather than helping new artist is really killing the business. This is a BUSINESS, and free music does not help it. One does not have a real following unless they are actually making money from that following. Artist have to provide for themselves and their families and making a few hundred dollars playing a bar is not going to cut it in the long run.

But my whole point was that there are artists making money without a record label. It's now possible for artists to have minor success with their own record labels. The record business may be dying, but the music business is not.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/08/21/8383597/

http://www.futureofmusicbook.com/2006/10/new_artist_mode.html

http://www.aandronline.com/submit_what.html

http://thedeathofthemusicindustry.wordpress.com/2007/01/10/clap-your-hands-say-yeah/

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/business/la-fi-ebands10dec10,0,1200653.story
 
okay, i see talk of album sales, live aid, lots of stuff that has nothing to do with the actual subject at hand. i'm not sure if this thread was created to start shit or what. but all i see is bickering back and forth, mostly between the same people.

i'm trying to find a reason to keep this thread open.
 
Reggie Thee Dog said:
The Police were great, but they left years ago and while their tour will be great and I will go see them, I'm not sure they could create the same success of say "Synchronicity" much less 'HTDAAB'.

That doesn't mean I think that Sting/Copeland and Summers aren't great musicians or a great band, it's just that they killed their momentum 20+ years ago and past a tour I can't see them doing much...not that they're not capable, but is there a big demand for a Police album? I don't know.

Well, consider the fact though that Sting himself had an album that came out at the end of 1999 that sold over 7 million copies worldwide, "Brand New Day". The last one, Sacred Love, sold 3 million worldwide and came out at the end of 2003. Sting is always good for at least a minimum of 3 million, and often more. I'd say at a minimum, a Police album of equal or better quality would sell at least 6 million and probably a little more.

HTDAAB has sold 9 million copies worldwide and I think a new serious Police album would definitely have a shot at comparable sales level.
 
Blue Room said:


Thats pretty much my view on it as well.

Looking forward to the tour. But the only reason this is a bigger deal than U2 is because they havent been together for 20 years. U2 has, and still draw huge crowds and they still make albums. I dont think its much of a comparison really.

Didnt Copeland say they would never do another album together again? I doubt they will. He has always said they would tour again at some point though. So he was right on that. I dont even think they will ever tour again after this one.

After the rock hall of fame awards, Copeland said that unless someone gave them another Rock Hall Of Fame award in 25 years, the performance at the Hall Of Fame in 2003 would be their last.

In light of everything that has happened in the last 2 months, anything is possible. Sting may decide to give his solo career an extended break. Its been over 3 years since his last solo album.

No one is really sure exactly how big this tour is going to be. We'll have a better idea after the public on sale of tickets on Saturday and Tuesday for Canada, Boston and New York.

Being away for 23 years is not necessarily a positive in terms of business. There are both negative and positive things about it. I'm not sure how successful a U2 tour would be if they broke up after the Joshua Tree and did not tour for another 25 years. If Coldplay or Green Day broke up today, would people flock to seem them in the year 2032?
 
kingofsorrow said:
lemme see, KISS reunited, Fleetwood Mac reunited, Eagles reunited, Culture Club reunited, Black Sabbath reunited, Poison reunited, Motley Crue reunited, etc, etc, etc, and now The police.

Kiss and Fleetwood Mac never really broke up. They just had members that left the group and then the original line up came back together. Same with Black Sabbath. These bands have been releasing albums and playing the concert circuit for years in different line ups. Same with Poison and Motley Crue to a lesser degree.

The Police on the other hand have not played a full concert since March 4, 1984.
 
Yahweh_OMG said:
Sorry, but I disagree totally with you (jarvis).
The Police has never been and will never be the best band in the world....

Well, millions of music fans around the world totally disagree with you on that point.
 
AtomicBono said:

Thats nothing new at all and was possible back then. In terms of the industry as whole, I think Bono's assessment is correct. The fact of the matter is, its getting tougher to make money in the music business, and many talented people are choosing to keep it as a hobby while they find some other line of work.
 
KhanadaRhodes said:
okay, i see talk of album sales, live aid, lots of stuff that has nothing to do with the actual subject at hand. i'm not sure if this thread was created to start shit or what. but all i see is bickering back and forth, mostly between the same people.

i'm trying to find a reason to keep this thread open.

The whole passing of the "torch" is about who is both the "biggest band" and "best band". So it involves a lot of issues, especially, album sales, concert ticket sales etc. Any reading of the whole issue in any of the U2 books that discuss it bring that point out.
 
I'm sorry but I hate this bullshit about The Police passing the torch to U2 back in the 80's and whatever. I never bought that. U2 is not going to pass anything for any band besides competition and that's all. It's all about great records and great songs.
 
STING2 said:


After the rock hall of fame awards, Copeland said that unless someone gave them another Rock Hall Of Fame award in 25 years, the performance at the Hall Of Fame in 2003 would be their last.

In light of everything that has happened in the last 2 months, anything is possible. Sting may decide to give his solo career an extended break. Its been over 3 years since his last solo album.

No one is really sure exactly how big this tour is going to be. We'll have a better idea after the public on sale of tickets on Saturday and Tuesday for Canada, Boston and New York.

Being away for 23 years is not necessarily a positive in terms of business. There are both negative and positive things about it. I'm not sure how successful a U2 tour would be if they broke up after the Joshua Tree and did not tour for another 25 years. If Coldplay or Green Day broke up today, would people flock to seem them in the year 2032?

Good Lord, what do you do go and quote every post that has anything slightly derogatory about the Police and post a rebuttal?? We get it, your user name alone says you prefer the Police. But dont expect everyone to say they are better than U2 on a U2 board because most of us dont think so. I like them, will go see them. But they are not even the same strastosphere of U2 to me and probably alot of other people here.

First off, U2 didnt break up and have been around. We are not talking about hypotheticals we are talking about what is a fact. The Grammys were hyped as the reunion of The Police and it was a big deal for that reason. For the same reason this tour is, because they havent done a tour in over 20 years. What major reunion tour has not sold well? Even semi big acts that have reunited have done good numbers and generated quite a bit of hype for their initial reunion tours. IE Kiss, Motley Cure, etc.. The Police are no different and were a bigger band than either of those. So yes, it being so long is why its being hyped. You want to go hypothetical. What if The Police broke up before Synchronicity? Its the same as saying if U2 broke up after the Joshua Tree. :shrug:

Coldplay????? They are nowhere near U2 or The Police. Thats like comparing an apple to a peanut. I dont think Green Day are either, although I think they are closer than Coldplay at the moment. When an artist puts together 3 or 4 great records and is billed as the biggest, and is such a live concert draw they have to play at least some stadium shows to meet demand, then they are the level of U2 and The Police. Coldplay isnt even close at this point. There are very few artists that reach that level.

I wont post anything else in this thread because its honestly not that big of a deal to me. I'm sure you will have more hypotheticals that have nothing to do with what the current situation is. Have fun. :)
 
STING2 said:


Kiss and Fleetwood Mac never really broke up. They just had members that left the group and then the original line up came back together. Same with Black Sabbath. These bands have been releasing albums and playing the concert circuit for years in different line ups. Same with Poison and Motley Crue to a lesser degree.

The Police on the other hand have not played a full concert since March 4, 1984.

hey look, there, right there. over your head. wwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhooooooossssssssss!!!!!!!
there goes the point.
 
Ok, in this thread we learned a few things:
1- The Police never passed any blasted torch.
2- U2 are the biggest and best band in the last 25 years.
3- Coldplay is not even in the ballpark.
 
Blue Room said:


Good Lord, what do you do go and quote every post that has anything slightly derogatory about the Police and post a rebuttal?? We get it, your user name alone says you prefer the Police. But dont expect everyone to say they are better than U2 on a U2 board because most of us dont think so. I like them, will go see them. But they are not even the same strastosphere of U2 to me and probably alot of other people here.

First off, U2 didnt break up and have been around. We are not talking about hypotheticals we are talking about what is a fact. The Grammys were hyped as the reunion of The Police and it was a big deal for that reason. For the same reason this tour is, because they havent done a tour in over 20 years. What major reunion tour has not sold well? Even semi big acts that have reunited have done good numbers and generated quite a bit of hype for their initial reunion tours. IE Kiss, Motley Cure, etc.. The Police are no different and were a bigger band than either of those. So yes, it being so long is why its being hyped. You want to go hypothetical. What if The Police broke up before Synchronicity? Its the same as saying if U2 broke up after the Joshua Tree. :shrug:

Coldplay????? They are nowhere near U2 or The Police. Thats like comparing an apple to a peanut. I dont think Green Day are either, although I think they are closer than Coldplay at the moment. When an artist puts together 3 or 4 great records and is billed as the biggest, and is such a live concert draw they have to play at least some stadium shows to meet demand, then they are the level of U2 and The Police. Coldplay isnt even close at this point. There are very few artists that reach that level.

I wont post anything else in this thread because its honestly not that big of a deal to me. I'm sure you will have more hypotheticals that have nothing to do with what the current situation is. Have fun. :)

Calm down. This is a message board where people post their opinions and yes rebut other opinions, some more than others depending on the topic.

I've not argued really about who is better, more so about the strength of each artist in the business.

I would not seriously compare how this tour does to U2, because the circumstances are indeed different. That would change though if The Police decided to return as a full time band after the reunion. You also can't really compare it to the other "reunions", as the circumstances of those reunions usually only involve line ups, as opposed to a band that have not played a full concert in any line up in 23 years. The closest comparison would be The Eagles, where there was a full 14 years in between the break up and the reunion.

It is difficult to estimate exactly how successful such a reunion after 23 years would be, considering the Police were only together for 7 years and only known to the public for 5 years while they were still a band.

Arthur Fogal the tour promoter of both U2 and this Police tour has expressed the fact that he does not at the current time know exactly how much business The Police will be able to do. Garry Bongiovanni who works for Pollstar which tracks the concert industry thinks the tour will do "well" but is not making any predictions because of how long it has been since the band has toured, nearly a quarter of a century.

Thats why only 5 shows are going on sale in the next few days. These shows will help the promoter better determine the level of demand that is out there so that the appropriate venues and number of shows can be booked.

No doubt, The Police tour will do better than any of Sting's solo tours, which have done very well and usually rank in the top 10 for any year that he goes on the road. Thats not where the uncertainty is. The uncertainty is whether the Police will be playing a stadium in market A or just one or two arena shows.

So many of these bands that reunite often end up playing as a apart of a multi-artist tour, or play state fairs and other things they would not have done when they were still a band in the old days at their peak. Journey, Styx, Motley Crue, REO Speedwagon, Van Halen(with Sammy Hagar), Loverboy, Duran Duran, never achieved the same level of relative success they had in the industry at their peaks when they "reunited".
 
MrPryck2U said:
Ok, in this thread we learned a few things:
1- The Police never passed any blasted torch.
2- U2 are the biggest and best band in the last 25 years.
3- Coldplay is not even in the ballpark.

Well, it was actually U2 and those around them that had this romantic view of the "torch passing". The Police were the biggest band in the world in 1984, U2 did not become the biggest band in the world really until 1987. Who has been the "best band" in any given year or time period is a matter strictly of opinion.

Yes, Coldplay is not even in the ballpark, but they have a better chance than any other band that has come into the industry since 2000.
 
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