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Old 10-10-2002, 11:26 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar



And just to make a note about this post in general. I have no problem with someone not liking U2's latest album, I'm not one of the blind love type of fans. I appreciate everyone's opinion, but opinion, especially when you are going to put it out on a public forum, needs some type of backing. One Tree Still never used anything to back his argument except "I don't think so". That's why I had a problem with a post like this.

Right. AND when someone expresses their opinion on a public discussion forum, they have to consider that their opinion will be DISCUSSED and that not all the discussion will agree with them. I am annoyed at all the people taking up for his 'right' to express his opinion without negative comments? Excuse me but I don't think anyone else here is exempt from being flamed for their remarks, I'm certainly not, and I don't see why he is above that here.

He made a rude statement and he can expect rude replies. Look, everybody knows if "J" had posted this thread he'd be ridden into the ground with rocks and flames and no one would defend him. Ditto if "gypsy" had made a rude thread about POP. So don't defend him here! He's thrown his shit to the wind, and if some of it blows back his way, oh well.

I won't bother going into what I think of him and his threads, (2 of which have been joined LOL), but I will offer the same advice to him that somebody gave me on PLEBA recently when I was flamed for not liking a pic. It can apply to albums too:

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THIS ONE SHUT THE FUCK UP AND WAIT FOR THE NEXT ONE!!!!!!!!!

Nobody wants to hear your endless bawling about this subject. We've heard it already. You've expressed your opinion. We know how you feel. Give it a fucking rest already.
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Old 10-10-2002, 11:31 AM   #102
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"My contention is that they aren't attracting new fans - younger fans - which, in my mind, makes them less relevant"

This is funny because I consider bands who attract young fans, teenages, to be completely irrelevant. The teen market place may be lucrative, but they are suckers for flash. Look at MTV, there's you average teen idea of vital, important music.
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Old 10-10-2002, 11:49 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by Desire4Bono





IF YOU DON'T LIKE THIS ONE SHUT THE FUCK UP AND WAIT FOR THE NEXT ONE!!!!!!!!!

Nobody wants to hear your endless bawling about this subject. We've heard it already. You've expressed your opinion. We know how you feel. Give it a fucking rest already.

This tone is not necesssary. I don't feel that One Tree Still has been rude. He has stated his belief about U2. This is not rude. It has prompted insightful discussion. We might not all agree with what he has to say, but yes, he has a right to say it.

As for Jick and Gypsy being attacked in the past for their opinions, I don't agree with that either. I don't understand why anyone needs to be flamed for speaking their mind. I could care less what anyone says about U2 - it's not worth attacking a stranger about it and being rude.

As I've said before, if you are annoyed by someone's beliefs about U2, drive on by. Leave them in peace to say their peace, and drive on by.
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Old 10-10-2002, 11:56 AM   #104
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If we're guaging relevance on the age group of your audience, and you're looking for a "young" crowd then the truly relevant bands around today are Blink 182, Brittney Spears, and Creed. This is a sad world.
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Old 10-10-2002, 12:02 PM   #105
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"If we're guaging relevance on the age group of your audience, and you're looking for a "young" crowd then the truly relevant bands around today are Blink 182, Brittney Spears, and Creed. This is a sad world"

True. When I was in HS back in 89-91 I had U2, REM, RHCP, Springsteen records. The majority of my peers were into Vanilla Ice, 2 Live Crew, Color Me Bad, Hair Metal, Etc. U2 have never united the teen masses. Teens don't relate to bands singing about "the big things in life." Teens relate to cool dance moves, boobs, and bands with a "bad ass" image.
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Old 10-10-2002, 12:26 PM   #106
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Re: relevance?

Quote:
Originally posted by elevation
So is U2 relevant outside the US? I'm not so sure about it. And I don't care if they sell 50+ mio. albums of ATYCLB. That doesn't make it better.
I agree with you, thats why they dont tour outside of US and in "some" European countries.

The other thing that doesnt matter is how couple of 100's think about one of the greatest rock bands of all time.History is very cruel, it depends on majority but not whether majority was right or wrong.So if 10 million people say ATYCLB is a great album, fortunately or unfortunately it will go down as a great album.Same for POP, if 10 million would say it was crap, then even if I go on hunger strike it will go down as crap.

(all above stated have been used as an example, doesnt express my view or opinion on the subject matter, however the following does)

Sorry to disappoint the genre fans, but this how it works.Average radio listner doesnt have time to discuss lyrics or diss guitar distortions.

Lastly if a commercially released music can give comfort to people in distress, imagine what level of satisfaction it would give to the artist.So even for half a second if people of US found a bit of comfort during their share of distress in some U2 song, I bend and salute it.

PS:- Listen carefully and you may find a dark side of ATYCLB..woooohooo
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Old 10-10-2002, 12:26 PM   #107
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Two things:

1. Desire4Bono - grow up. You have your opinion, I have mine. Let it ride.

2. I never said anything about teens who are fans of crap music making U2 relevant - I said U2 isn't attracting new, younger fans. However, there are teens with good musical taste today just like there were in the 80s (you and me) - when those who didn't were snatching up Vanilla Ice, 2Live, Winger and the rest of that crap.

While it is not requisite that the teen population gravitate towards a band to make that band culturally relevant, it is an indicator.
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Old 10-10-2002, 12:58 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by HelloAngel



This tone is not necesssary. I don't feel that One Tree Still has been rude. He has stated his belief about U2. This is not rude. It has prompted insightful discussion. We might not all agree with what he has to say, but yes, he has a right to say it.

As for Jick and Gypsy being attacked in the past for their opinions, I don't agree with that either. I don't understand why anyone needs to be flamed for speaking their mind. I could care less what anyone says about U2 - it's not worth attacking a stranger about it and being rude.

As I've said before, if you are annoyed by someone's beliefs about U2, drive on by. Leave them in peace to say their peace, and drive on by.
If you go back and look at my post you got that 'tone' from you will see I was quoting a comment that had been said to me in PLEBA recently,(you deleted that part in your repost) and when it happened to me nobody cared. Those were somebody else's words, not mine, but I saw the paralell between what they were telling me and what I wanted to tell him. I thought it applied here too.

I just don't understand why One Tree Still's rights and opinions are more sacred and must be respected more than anyone else's I've ever seen here. Sorry, if you post something negative (and it was negative toward the band, whether or not you consider it rude) on that band's message board and open the topic up for public discussion, you have to expect hearing rude things, and he doesn't deserve to be protected from that. This is a DISCUSSION forum, and if he starts a discussion he should understand that. No one ever leaves anyone else 'in peace' so why him? If he wanted to be left 'in peace' with his views he should have kept them to himself and not posted them on a public forum for hundreds to see. If he does, don't get pissed when somebody bites you back. That's how it goes. Once people see it, it's open season. Well I guess on everyone except the exalted Mr. One Tree Still
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Old 10-10-2002, 01:06 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by One Tree Still
Two things:

1. Desire4Bono - grow up. You have your opinion, I have mine. Let it ride.


Though I do strongly disagree with your opinion, that is not my problem here. It's the way you are being mollycoddled like a helpless baby because some people said things you didn't like. Nobody else gets that treatment and I find it annoying. You posted your views on a public forum and opened them for discussion. You have to expect not everyone is going to agree, or be 'nice' about it. Too bad. THAT'S my beef here.

About the teen thing, come on there is no way teens are going to gravitate to a band as old as their parents. Some have, and I applaud their good taste but not enough to make a social statement. I don't think that takes away from the band's relevenece. If there only crime is passing the age of 40 they're doing great. I see a long and prosperous future for these guys.
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Old 10-10-2002, 01:40 PM   #110
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Quote:
while they also did start that infamous atyclb thread, as others have stated, i think the criticisms have always been thoughtfully argued out, with logical opinions and no stupid insults
Exactly!!!!

One Tree Still keeps stating his opinion but does not lash out and say something like 'fuck off, we dont need your opinion'. That is why Desire4Bono is in the wrong here.
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Old 10-10-2002, 02:16 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by Desire4Bono

You have to expect not everyone is going to agree, or be 'nice' about it.
Sorry, but no. Of course you have to expect disagreement, but I think everyonea also has a right to expect calm, considered, 'nice' responses when they've written a calm, considered post as One Tree has. Perhaps that's not a realistic expection, but the blame for unkind responses should go to the people who made them, not the person who naively expected not to receive them.

Also, One Tree's responses haven't even given off the tone that he expected everyone else to agree. Several times, he's said something like "fine, then. we have a difference of opinion. doesn't bother me." For the record, I don't agree with him. At all. But I find it interesting to read his posts because he makes a careful and considered arguement, while still acknowledging that ultimately it's just his opinion. You say he should be prepared for discussion. He stated an opinion. People disagreed. He responded. That IS a discussion. Can we just let it proceed?
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Old 10-10-2002, 02:29 PM   #112
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Old 10-10-2002, 02:33 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hallelujah Here She Comes


Sorry, but no. Of course you have to expect disagreement, but I think everyonea also has a right to expect calm, considered, 'nice' responses when they've written a calm, considered post as One Tree has. Perhaps that's not a realistic expection, but the blame for unkind responses should go to the people who made them, not the person who naively expected not to receive them.

Also, One Tree's responses haven't even given off the tone that he expected everyone else to agree. Several times, he's said something like "fine, then. we have a difference of opinion. doesn't bother me." For the record, I don't agree with him. At all. But I find it interesting to read his posts because he makes a careful and considered arguement, while still acknowledging that ultimately it's just his opinion. You say he should be prepared for discussion. He stated an opinion. People disagreed. He responded. That IS a discussion. Can we just let it proceed?
Agree!

Anyone who gets all fired up and starts badmouthing the other person without a valid reason has to keep their opinions to themselves and not discuss it in a public forum.
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Old 10-10-2002, 02:38 PM   #114
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1. I DID NOT MAKE THE 'nobody cares about your opinion shut the fuck up' post. That was made by someone else, a guy, much earlier in the thread. I don't know how now I get the blame for that.

2. The SHUT THE FUCK UP AND WAIT FOR THE NEXT ONE line was a direct quote that someone posted to me on PLEBA, they are not even my words I was only using it for an example. Intestingly enough, it was no crime when it happened to me

3. I am so sick and tired of know it all lectures. I hate them on PLEBA and I hate them here. Everyone rags endlessly about respecting each other's opinion, yet everyone seems to think theirs is the answer to the problem and the other person is wrong, so go figure.

4. I still do not understand why all of a sudden it is such a crime to post harshly against someone's opinions. I have seen it happen all the time to lots of people as long as I've been here, and I am really flabbergasted at the amount of support he is getting here. I have never seen ANYONE else get stuck up for like this. NO ONE. NO THREAD. WHY all of a sudden? It will be interesting to see if someone else posts a negative thread tommorrow if they will be left to the wolves or mollycoddled like a baby. I just don't get it. If this had been the long running policy of this forum I could understand it, but it never has been, so I don't.

5. It is not so much his opinion I have a problem with as I do the situation described in #4.

6. I hope you girls who feel the need to shelter and protect the poor helpless baby won't fight too hard over who's going to powder his butt, feed him his bottle and put him to bed. I'm sure One Tree Still would be the first to say he is a grown man and he can handle his own arguments. God knows everyone else on this forum has had to.
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Old 10-10-2002, 02:50 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by Desire4Bono
1. I DID NOT MAKE THE 'nobody cares about your opinion shut the fuck up' post. That was made by someone else, a guy, much earlier in the thread. I don't know how now I get the blame for that.

2. The SHUT THE FUCK UP AND WAIT FOR THE NEXT ONE line was a direct quote that someone posted to me on PLEBA, they are not even my words I was only using it for an example. Intestingly enough, it was no crime when it happened to me

3. I am so sick and tired of know it all lectures. I hate them on PLEBA and I hate them here. Everyone rags endlessly about respecting each other's opinion, yet everyone seems to think theirs is the answer to the problem and the other person is wrong, so go figure.

4. I still do not understand why all of a sudden it is such a crime to post harshly against someone's opinions. I have seen it happen all the time to lots of people as long as I've been here, and I am really flabbergasted at the amount of support he is getting here. I have never seen ANYONE else get stuck up for like this. NO ONE. NO THREAD. WHY all of a sudden? It will be interesting to see if someone else posts a negative thread tommorrow if they will be left to the wolves or mollycoddled like a baby. I just don't get it. If this had been the long running policy of this forum I could understand it, but it never has been, so I don't.

5. It is not so much his opinion I have a problem with as I do the situation described in #4.

6. I hope you girls who feel the need to shelter and protect the poor helpless baby won't fight too hard over who's going to powder his butt, feed him his bottle and put him to bed. I'm sure One Tree Still would be the first to say he is a grown man and he can handle his own arguments. God knows everyone else on this forum has had to.

The point, Desire, is that One Tree Still made a calmly worded post. He has been calm this entire time. Others have not, and have been rude, needlessly.

I am not sheltering him, I am merely trying to facilitate the ability for the discussion to continue. Had he started the thread in a harsh tone, the thread and its resulting content would not have continued.

Why does anyone need to be harsh here? Is it really necessary?
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Old 10-10-2002, 03:01 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by Desire4Bono
I will offer the same advice to him that somebody gave me on PLEBA recently when I was flamed for not liking a pic. It can apply to albums too:

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THIS ONE SHUT THE FUCK UP AND WAIT FOR THE NEXT ONE!!!!!!!!!

Nobody wants to hear your endless bawling about this subject. We've heard it already. You've expressed your opinion. We know how you feel. Give it a fucking rest already.
Two wrongs dont make a right. Saying you will offer the same advice someone else gave you does not make it right. You were more than welcome to report that pleba post to me if you were upset about it. I didnt hear anything about it.

HelloAngel has tried to calm the thread down and I think her views and advice are right on. The thread was not originally posted in a harsh manner. But it seems it has turned into it because once again people cant discuss likes and dislikes without ripping each other apart. Come on.. everyone has a different opinion! Just because you dont like a certain U2 song or album or whatever doesnt mean you're any less of a fan. This should be able to be discussed like adults. But obviously there are too many children here. I'm not sticking up for anyone.. but its not right when the mods have to come to me after trying to control a situation and no one pays attention to them.

Desire maybe you should just walk away from this thread. It would be a shame to have to close it, but I will if the arguing continues.
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Old 10-10-2002, 03:08 PM   #117
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I figured a lot of you would disagree with me and that's totally cool.

I had a thought and expressed it - I wanted to see if it resonated with anyone else. It has with a few, but I'm obviously in the minority. No big deal.

For the record - I know U2 will continue to make music - even if I ask them not to .

Maybe I'm just a fan of yesteryear. Hope they prove me wrong I guess!

Side note: It's amazing to me that people can be so fired up about a band that they would tell someone to f* off for saying something slightly disparaging. Unreal.
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Old 10-10-2002, 03:46 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by One Tree Still
I figured a lot of you would disagree with me and that's totally cool.

I had a thought and expressed it - I wanted to see if it resonated with anyone else. It has with a few, but I'm obviously in the minority. No big deal.

For the record - I know U2 will continue to make music - even if I ask them not to .

Maybe I'm just a fan of yesteryear. Hope they prove me wrong I guess!

Side note: It's amazing to me that people can be so fired up about a band that they would tell someone to f* off for saying something slightly disparaging. Unreal.
Once again, I would like to say "Thank You" to you for stating your opinion in an eloquent, respectable manner. Although I don't agree with the statement that U2 should "hang it up," you've made your point without any name-calling or using any other immature techniques. Thanks!

I hope they prove you wrong too!

It's been my experience that U2 fans as a whole are very passionate people. We get fired up. It's what we do! Yeah, some of us are a little more obnoxious than others, but...what can you do?
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Old 10-10-2002, 04:09 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by Desire4Bono
if you post something negative (and it was negative toward the band, whether or not you consider it rude) on that band's message board and open the topic up for public discussion, you have to expect hearing rude things
not really. there's multiple ways for one to discuss their opinion, and many of these don't involve telling people to "shut the fuck up already."
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Old 10-10-2002, 04:10 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I'm sorry but this doesn't mean shit. Not just because album sales don't show the worth of the album, but also the fact that these are to date figures. The Joshua Tree has been on the market for what, 15 years?
i think you slightly misinterpreted my point of posting the figures. what you said was the point i was trying to prove.
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