Random Music Talk CXXVIII: Cobbler's 42 Hat Sucks - Page 27

bono_212 · 12-20-2020, 12:12 AM

, should've known.

I honestly have no idea what YouTube Music playlists are going to be like. I think it's going to work like the app and there'll be ads every once in a while if you don't have YouTube Premium.

this is the post Google Play Music world and I'm just living in it.

cobl04 · 12-20-2020, 01:11 AM

U2: Zooropa Album Review | Pitchfork

cobl04 · 12-20-2020, 01:30 AM

I suppose I should have put this in Cock, but oh well, too late. It's a fine review in terms of contextualising it and the tour, but makes very little mention of the music, which is the #1 factor in my love for the record, and also goes with the lazy 'Pop was a flop' thing.

I also think that U2 should get more credit for the Sarajevo broadcasts and the phone calls from MacPhisto. If those things were done by literally any other act, they'd be heralded as among the most powerful, iconic moments in live music history. As they are, it reads like grudging respect. Can you imagine the love that, say, the 1975 or something would get if they sent a reporter to Yemen and did live calls during their concerts?

namkcuR · 12-20-2020, 01:38 AM

Yeah, it's a well-written review, but I agree there could've been more about the music. Not one mention of Stay, probably the most remembered song from that album?

Also irritated that even when they're singing the praises of an older U2 album, they can't do it without talking shit about about later U2.

cobl04 · 12-20-2020, 02:14 AM

I mean, they deserve it for forcing the album onto people. That was fucking stupid.

The no mention for Stay, nor for the transgressive sound of Numb relative to their previous music, or the suite of Zooropa, was odd.

LemonMelon · 12-20-2020, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobl04

U2: Zooropa Album Review | Pitchfork

Oh yeah. That's the good stuff.

lazarus · 12-20-2020, 12:10 PM

Do they mention how it was made 7 years before Kid A?

Anyway, that they got a Sunday retro feature at all is good news, I guess.

lazarus · 12-20-2020, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobl04

I also think that U2 should get more credit for the Sarajevo broadcasts and the phone calls from MacPhisto. If those things were done by literally any other act, they'd be heralded as among the most powerful, iconic moments in live music history. As they are, it reads like grudging respect. Can you imagine the love that, say, the 1975 or something would get if they sent a reporter to Yemen and did live calls during their concerts?

As much flak as Bono gets for modern U2 aspiring to punk rock or whatever, it should be said that this tour was about as punk as you could get while embracing the more experimental side of rock & roll. Harassing world leaders, getting involved with people on the ground of a civil war, mocking fascism and media manipulation. I'd think a forward-thinking band like The Clash would be proud--and it's no coincidence Mick Jones's Big Audio Dynamite was one of the openers on this tour. Zooropa is the logical extension (and maybe conclusion) to something like Sandanista!

gump · 12-20-2020, 12:27 PM

That was a surprisingly good read, and more positive than the score itself. A bit puzzling that they failed to mention Stay while going deeper into a number of other tracks, but as one of the most conventional songs in the album it’s not surprising (though it would have made for a nice link to Win Wenders and cross-medium experimentation). I liked the discussion of some of the samples used in the record, which I wasn’t aware of. The point about the vacuous activism (nice expression) that followed that era was pretty resonant too.

lazarus · 12-20-2020, 04:07 PM

I think that criticism is still reductive though. It’s not like they have only dealt in political generalizations since the 90s; I think on most of the tours and albums you can see attention being paid to very specific causes.

Acting like the One or Red campaigns were useless or going through the motions is also disingenuous. That’s like disregarding Rock The Vote or something.

We can bemoan the fact that the band (or Bono at least) took on a less-confrontational form of activism in the 2000s, but when you have direct access to powerful politicians and can actually affect policy change directly, pragmatism is going to take over. You don’t get a commitment to funding HIV relief for Africa from George W. Bush by making fun of him like they were doing with his father 10 years earlier.

gump · 12-20-2020, 05:04 PM

I think it is a fair point to say that Bono's activism tended to become of the generic sort in the 2000s (especially if you are not following his every move but listening to him speak, say, during Streets or One). Like their music, his instinct was to be safe and not to offend anyone. Was it helpful in some areas? Probably. AIDS might be his most impactful area. But I think he - and Western philanthropists in general - take way too much credit for the changes in policy compared to what non-Western government were doing: breaking patents to offer universal treatment (Brazil, then India), putting tremendous pressure in international fora (African governments), etc. As far as I know, he was never vocally in favor of the more radical solutions that had proven to be successful - breaking patents, which Western governments hated as it would affect the profitability of pharmaceutical companies. Even something like Red makes me pause. I'm not entirely sure if it does more for the companies themselves ("corporate social responsibility" is such a scam) or the recipients of their causes. It raises such a small amount of money (like less than 1% of the annual budget of the Global Fund Against AIDS/TB/Malaria).

I don't mean to be overly critical. Bono does nice work, sometimes really misses the mark (his naiveté re. Aung San Suu Kyi, for example), but is far from groundbreaking or radical. Feels like I'm describing their recent output as a band.

cobl04 · 12-20-2020, 08:07 PM

I utterly agree with Gump. I will never run in to defend Bono's activism since 2000. He's stinking rich and many miles removed from reality. I have no doubt that these big corporate non-profits do some good work, but I would also argue they help perpetuate the problems.

I think it's reflected in their music, too. In the 80s and 90s, their activism came through very strongly in their music - Bullet the Blue Sky, Please, Miss Sarajevo, Where the Streets Have No Name, Sunday Bloody Sunday, New Year's Day, Mothers of the Disappeared, the list goes on. There's not a single song they've released since Pop that is even one-tenth as powerful or important as any of those. He & they got rich, and in my eyes, they don't really deserve to be lauded. They've done some cool shit re activism in their 00s live shows, and I'll give them credit for continuing to push a political message when other bands of their ilk just trot out the hits and collect their cheques, but the 90s was the last time it felt truly real and legitimate.

And Laz, I think you've got blind spots. I get your point about Dubya, but if it was any other band, like let's say Coldplay, you'd be holding them up as evil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazarus

As much flak as Bono gets for modern U2 aspiring to punk rock or whatever, it should be said that this tour was about as punk as you could get while embracing the more experimental side of rock & roll. Harassing world leaders, getting involved with people on the ground of a civil war, mocking fascism and media manipulation. I'd think a forward-thinking band like The Clash would be proud--and it's no coincidence Mick Jones's Big Audio Dynamite was one of the openers on this tour. Zooropa is the logical extension (and maybe conclusion) to something like Sandanista!

Well said

I thought of you the second I saw they'd reviewed it and awaited your FB post haha.

It will be interesting to see how they reinvent ZooTV if they do indeed decide on a 30th anniversary tour.

bono_212 · 12-20-2020, 08:13 PM

Shuttlecock XXV: Cool Hats Club

(Am I doing this right?)

lazarus · 12-20-2020, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobl04

I utterly agree with Gump. I will never run in to defend Bono's activism since 2000. He's stinking rich and many miles removed from reality. I have no doubt that these big corporate non-profits do some good work, but I would also argue they help perpetuate the problems.

I think it's reflected in their music, too. In the 80s and 90s, their activism came through very strongly in their music - Bullet the Blue Sky, Please, Miss Sarajevo, Where the Streets Have No Name, Sunday Bloody Sunday, New Year's Day, Mothers of the Disappeared, the list goes on. There's not a single song they've released since Pop that is even one-tenth as powerful or important as any of those. He & they got rich, and in my eyes, they don't really deserve to be lauded. They've done some cool shit re activism in their 00s live shows, and I'll give them credit for continuing to push a political message when other bands of their ilk just trot out the hits and collect their cheques, but the 90s was the last time it felt truly real and legitimate.

And Laz, I think you've got blind spots. I get your point about Dubya, but if it was any other band, like let's say Coldplay, you'd be holding them up as evil.

I'm not totally in opposition to your guys's general sentiment. Pragmatic policy making is never going to be cool as rebellious satire. But my point still stands, when you're rich enough or popular enough or, to be fair, old enough, you have avenues that weren't available before. And as I said, I think Bono wanted actual results on some of these issues. Clearly AIDS/debt relief in Africa became his main priority. There was nothing to be gained by thumbing his nose at Bush, and a lot to gain by finding common ground with him. We can argue about where the money went or the better approaches to these things, but Bono knew he was useful in this particular area, so I can't fault him for it. Also keep in mind that back when U2 was politically active, few major acts were. By the time you get to the 2000s, it's not all that unique to be a band with a conscience and a big platform. So not a surprise they would shift into a more "executive" gear.

As for the songs themselves, I won't argue that Crumbs From Your Table or Peace On Earth are on the level of those classics you're mentioning, I'm just saying that they didn't abandon actually writing about specific issues.

cobl04 · 12-21-2020, 07:13 PM

oooooOOOOHHH Darkside Announce New Album Spiral, Share New Song “Liberty Bell”: Listen

LemonMelon · 12-21-2020, 08:45 PM

Yesssss

There are so many releases slated for 2021 that I'm looking forward to already. Madlib & Four Tet, Rhye, Slowthai, The Hold Steady, Mogwai, Cloud Nothings, The Notwist, Kiwi Jr., Julien Baker, Teenage Fanclub, and then of course we're all waiting on something from Kendrick.

gump · 12-22-2020, 07:49 AM

Annie Clark is disappointed at your list, LM.

LemonMelon · 12-22-2020, 06:57 PM

I went off the Metacritic list and it wasn't included because there isn't a solid date yet. Soon!

iron yuppie · 12-22-2020, 08:54 PM

Did anyone know that Eric Clapton and Van Morrison (!) recently put out an anti-Covid lockdown song?

Hewson · 12-23-2020, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iron yuppie

Did anyone know that Eric Clapton and Van Morrison (!) recently put out an anti-Covid lockdown song?

I saw that the other day. 2 guys in a high risk age group...not the brightest of bulbs.

12-20-2020, 12:12 AM	#521
bono_212 Blue Crack Distributor Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 83,919 Local Time: 06:59 AM	, should've known. I honestly have no idea what YouTube Music playlists are going to be like. I think it's going to work like the app and there'll be ads every once in a while if you don't have YouTube Premium. this is the post Google Play Music world and I'm just living in it. __________________ __________________

12-20-2020, 01:11 AM	#522
cobl04 45:33 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: East Point to Shaolin Posts: 59,230 Local Time: 12:59 AM	U2: Zooropa Album Review \| Pitchfork __________________

12-20-2020, 08:13 PM	#533
bono_212 Blue Crack Distributor Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 83,919 Local Time: 06:59 AM	Shuttlecock XXV: Cool Hats Club (Am I doing this right?) __________________

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12-20-2020, 01:30 AM	#523
cobl04 45:33 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: East Point to Shaolin Posts: 59,230 Local Time: 12:59 AM	I suppose I should have put this in Cock, but oh well, too late. It's a fine review in terms of contextualising it and the tour, but makes very little mention of the music, which is the #1 factor in my love for the record, and also goes with the lazy 'Pop was a flop' thing. I also think that U2 should get more credit for the Sarajevo broadcasts and the phone calls from MacPhisto. If those things were done by literally any other act, they'd be heralded as among the most powerful, iconic moments in live music history. As they are, it reads like grudging respect. Can you imagine the love that, say, the 1975 or something would get if they sent a reporter to Yemen and did live calls during their concerts?

12-20-2020, 01:38 AM	#524
namkcuR ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Kettering, Ohio Posts: 10,770 Local Time: 09:59 AM	Yeah, it's a well-written review, but I agree there could've been more about the music. Not one mention of Stay, probably the most remembered song from that album? Also irritated that even when they're singing the praises of an older U2 album, they can't do it without talking shit about about later U2.

12-20-2020, 02:14 AM	#525
cobl04 45:33 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: East Point to Shaolin Posts: 59,230 Local Time: 12:59 AM	I mean, they deserve it for forcing the album onto people. That was fucking stupid. The no mention for Stay, nor for the transgressive sound of Numb relative to their previous music, or the suite of Zooropa, was odd.

12-20-2020, 12:10 PM	#527
lazarus Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 42,268 Local Time: 05:59 AM	Do they mention how it was made 7 years before Kid A? Anyway, that they got a Sunday retro feature at all is good news, I guess.

12-20-2020, 12:27 PM	#529
gump ONE love, blood, life Join Date: May 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 10,147 Local Time: 08:59 AM	That was a surprisingly good read, and more positive than the score itself. A bit puzzling that they failed to mention Stay while going deeper into a number of other tracks, but as one of the most conventional songs in the album it’s not surprising (though it would have made for a nice link to Win Wenders and cross-medium experimentation). I liked the discussion of some of the samples used in the record, which I wasn’t aware of. The point about the vacuous activism (nice expression) that followed that era was pretty resonant too.

12-20-2020, 04:07 PM	#530
lazarus Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 42,268 Local Time: 05:59 AM	I think that criticism is still reductive though. It’s not like they have only dealt in political generalizations since the 90s; I think on most of the tours and albums you can see attention being paid to very specific causes. Acting like the One or Red campaigns were useless or going through the motions is also disingenuous. That’s like disregarding Rock The Vote or something. We can bemoan the fact that the band (or Bono at least) took on a less-confrontational form of activism in the 2000s, but when you have direct access to powerful politicians and can actually affect policy change directly, pragmatism is going to take over. You don’t get a commitment to funding HIV relief for Africa from George W. Bush by making fun of him like they were doing with his father 10 years earlier.

12-20-2020, 05:04 PM	#531
gump ONE love, blood, life Join Date: May 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 10,147 Local Time: 08:59 AM	I think it is a fair point to say that Bono's activism tended to become of the generic sort in the 2000s (especially if you are not following his every move but listening to him speak, say, during Streets or One). Like their music, his instinct was to be safe and not to offend anyone. Was it helpful in some areas? Probably. AIDS might be his most impactful area. But I think he - and Western philanthropists in general - take way too much credit for the changes in policy compared to what non-Western government were doing: breaking patents to offer universal treatment (Brazil, then India), putting tremendous pressure in international fora (African governments), etc. As far as I know, he was never vocally in favor of the more radical solutions that had proven to be successful - breaking patents, which Western governments hated as it would affect the profitability of pharmaceutical companies. Even something like Red makes me pause. I'm not entirely sure if it does more for the companies themselves ("corporate social responsibility" is such a scam) or the recipients of their causes. It raises such a small amount of money (like less than 1% of the annual budget of the Global Fund Against AIDS/TB/Malaria). I don't mean to be overly critical. Bono does nice work, sometimes really misses the mark (his naiveté re. Aung San Suu Kyi, for example), but is far from groundbreaking or radical. Feels like I'm describing their recent output as a band.

12-21-2020, 07:13 PM	#535
cobl04 45:33 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: East Point to Shaolin Posts: 59,230 Local Time: 12:59 AM	oooooOOOOHHH Darkside Announce New Album Spiral, Share New Song “Liberty Bell”: Listen

12-21-2020, 08:45 PM	#536
LemonMelon More 5G Than Man Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Hollywoo Posts: 68,800 Local Time: 06:59 AM	Yesssss There are so many releases slated for 2021 that I'm looking forward to already. Madlib & Four Tet, Rhye, Slowthai, The Hold Steady, Mogwai, Cloud Nothings, The Notwist, Kiwi Jr., Julien Baker, Teenage Fanclub, and then of course we're all waiting on something from Kendrick.

12-22-2020, 07:49 AM	#537
gump ONE love, blood, life Join Date: May 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 10,147 Local Time: 08:59 AM	Annie Clark is disappointed at your list, LM.

12-22-2020, 06:57 PM	#538
LemonMelon More 5G Than Man Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Hollywoo Posts: 68,800 Local Time: 06:59 AM	I went off the Metacritic list and it wasn't included because there isn't a solid date yet. Soon!

12-22-2020, 08:54 PM	#539
iron yuppie ONE love, blood, life Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 10,950 Local Time: 07:59 AM	Did anyone know that Eric Clapton and Van Morrison (!) recently put out an anti-Covid lockdown song?