My Heritage/Nationality

[bammo2]

It wasn't in this thread that I was talking about. It's a repeated claim

I only remember cos I remember it annoying a dutch person a while back

 

[U2Girl1978]

I was thinking that there might be a full moon.

 

[yolland]

But do you see that it is almost offensive to say to a Dutch person that, despite never having been to The Netherlands, that you are Dutch and, in fact, more Dutch than the Dutch themselves

Yeah, I already said "Fair enough" to that point. Of course, at the rate this thread is careening, that's probably 4 pages back by now.

I still think that there's a difference between a cultural identity, an ancestory, and a nationality

But an inherent, essential difference? One that goes beyond any given culture's usage to point to something concrete and quantifiable? All of these ideas are in some measure arbitrary constructs (ugh, I hate to get into that jargon)--are they not? Passports and taxes are irreducibly real, yeah, but which group's stories you understand who you are in terms of, I think that is all much more fluid.

God, it's hard to put this stuff into words.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

I was thinking that there might be a full moon.

Either that or it's The Internet Goes Batshit Crazy Day.

 

[U2Girl1978]

Either that or it's The Internet Goes Batshit Crazy Day.

 

[yolland]

I don't think it's fair that you have to explain that you're nationailty is Canadian if someone asks or why you identify yourself that way because your skin is darker.

Good point, there are often exclusionary nuances implicit for nonwhite groups in the issue of which collective identity one "belongs" to, which aren't there for white people.

 

[yolland]

Being Jewish and the child of immigrants from different "nationalities" I'm sorely tempted to drive the whole diaspora identity wedge into this discussion right about now, but that would be kinda sadistic .

 

[stammer476]

Why do people from the USA call it "America" like it was the whole continent? cuz technically I'm american too , and why if they called it "america" dont say that they are "americans"

What else are we going to say? We're United Statians? It's the fault of a poorly named country.

Why some people call Latin Americans "Mexicans" ?

In my experience, it's because they are one of the following:

A.) Making a joke.

B.) Ignorant.

C.) Lazy.

 

[For Honor]

edit

 

[Shag On A Rock]

I've just woken up and this thread went off whilst I slumbered so theres gonna be a lot of ramblings from me. lol

We are all American, but I am just proud to be Dutch in the sense that nobody in my family line is not dutch. Does this makes sense?

No, it doesn't make sense. Please explain it again another way.

Well if she were Aryan she wouldn't she be from India?

Thats not what I meant. Do people in the USA still use the word Aryan in the Indian context? Theres a new one on me. I didn't know that either.

I meant Aryan in the sense of person who is overly proud of being Northern European in a racist sense. Not that I was calling Lies a racist, I was listing all possibilities.

You do not think it is an offensive suggestion?

It wasn't a suggestion, it was a point on a list of possibilities. How else is a solution discovered without the exploration of all options?

(I don't mean that in a nasty way)

America is also younger than those other countries. There is still some memory of where people's ancestors emigrated from and some people are interested in where they came from.
What's the point in a lot of things that we talk about? Its just something to share I guess

Incorrect. USA is older than many nations in the New World. As an example Australia is, um, 217 years old or sumfin.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

Incorrect. USA is older than many nations in the New World. As an example Australia is, um, 217 years old or sumfin.

I believe she was referring to the Old World. And yes, the United States is older than Italy and Germany.


My point with the Aryan comment was that you suggested that a person can not call themselves Italian because Italy is a political division. I was simply pointing out that by that same token the term Aryan has been misused because Aryans migrated into the Indus River Valley around 2000 BC, not into Europe.

 

[Shag On A Rock]

I knew which Aryan was being referred to. The reason I pointed it out was because it was pointed out that claiming you are Dutch or Italian isn't accurate. Italy and the Netherland are political divisions, ...we are all some percentage African.

Yes, and you have just pointed out the specific reasons why I personally believe eugenics is flawed. Not that that stops racists. How many racists do you know? I personally know truckloads

Dude, why is it such a big deal to you what I am and what I call myself?

I raised the issue as you've made the 100% Dutch and more Dutch than Dutch comments many times. I don't understand the comments so I asked the question. I didn't understand your answers so I asked more questions. To put it simply I'm an information freak and I dont' like not understanding. (PS I'm not a Dude, I'm female. This username may sound male. I'm beli actually, we've "met", in the internet sense, before. )

Sorry, this one probably doesn't deserve a response, but....wtf? If you're going to get all picky about what fucking word we're allowed or not allowed to use, I'd think you'd at least know that "Aryan"s are people from Asia/Middle East.

I wasn't aware, until now, that people in the USA use the word "Aryan" in the historical sense. I was under the impression that people in the USA speak modern English, really modern English, more modern than mine. I actually suprised by this. Usually my English is the oldest/most out of context in a conversation.

If you want to call me a fucking Nazi, just do it straight up, alright? [/B]

It was a point on a list of possibilities. Please refer my previous post

Finally, like you said, YOU don't live HERE so how the fuck would you know what we like to call ourselves and why?[/B]

Thats precisely why I asked, I live in Australia and don't know many people from the USA and I do not understand this ethnic description business. I believe I stated that previously. If not, my apologies.

We don't call ourselves American, it doesn't make sense and it sounds absurd.

Apart from the whole America is land mass not a nation issue already discussed by other in this thread, why doesn't it make sense? If you ask me what I am I will say Australian but I'm not indigenous. My grandmother is European. All my other ancestors (in the past 200 odd years) are also immigrants. But I call myself Australian. As do other Australians. We don't have Irish-Australians, Italian-Australians, etc, blah.

Theres a cultural difference between my world and yours and I'm wanting to explore it.

 

[Shag On A Rock]

My point with the Aryan comment was that you suggested that a person can not call themselves Italian because Italy is a political division. I was simply pointing out that by that same token the term Aryan has been misused because Aryans migrated into the Indus River Valley around 2000 BC, not into Europe.

You posted while I typed. I'm still reading through this thread.

The term Aryan has evolved, like most other words used in the English language. It is not misused in the sense I used it.

 

[Liesje]

But do you see that it is almost offensive to say to a Dutch person that, despite never having been to The Netherlands, that you are Dutch and, in fact, more Dutch than the Dutch themselves

oh my god guys, let it go already! Sicy, feel free to delete the comment since apparently it's offensive to people. It's a joke, ok? Like right after I finished saying how not-Dutch I look and how I hate Dutch food, don't speak Dutch, yadda yadda yadda....but, whatever. Just let it go, really. It's just the friggin internet where certain nuances of communication just don't work in 2D text! Not to mention, the "dutcher than dutch" joke is more of an inside joke I doubt anyone here but Phil would "get". It's a JOKE, even to US. End of story. I'm sorry if it has been soooooo offensive.

I don't get why all the sudden everyone is questioning their own, and everyone else's, identity based on some comments on an internet message board. I mean, you're defined by yourself and those around you, NOT but what people on other continents whom you've never met have to say. Come on, let's give ourselves a bit more credit, shall we? Nothing in this stupid thread changes who I am b/c no one in this thread is part of my family, my history, or my own local culture (well.....Phil, yes, and maaaaybe Miroslava and April ).


Good grief!!

 

[Shag On A Rock]

I would never claim to be more Italian than Italians that born, raised and live in Italy.. I guess I did not read where Leis said that.

That was the whole point of the comments, and why I personally started asking the questions. What did you think I was doing?

 

[Liesje]

Apart from the whole America is land mass not a nation issue already discussed by other in this thread, why doesn't it make sense? If you ask me what I am I will say Australian but I'm not indigenous. My grandmother is European. All my other ancestors (in the past 200 odd years) are also immigrants. But I call myself Australian. As do other Australians. We don't have Irish-Australians, Italian-Australians, etc, blah.

Theres a cultural difference between my world and yours and I'm wanting to explore it.

OK, well I'd REALLY appreciate it if we could explore without you having to call me a fucking Nazi, alright? You have NO idea how much that offends me and I don't feel I owe you an explanation. I'm done. You can call yourself what you want, and I'll call myself what I want. We don't know each other and we have no influence on each other's history or culture so we have no right to be telling each other whatever the fuck nationality/religion/ethnicity/race/clan/tribe we are.

And yes, in the US, at least where I live, we're taught about "Aryans" as people from Asia/middle east. The only time I've ever used/learned that word was in history classes when studying the Aryan people.

 

[TheQuiet1]

I am English

I have Irish heritage, but I'm still English. I was born in England and speak English, hold an English passport and live and work in England. Therefore, IMO, I'm English

Ahhhhhhh.....but are you British? Just kidding, let's not even go down that road!

< 100% North Yorkshirian for goodness knows how many generations. (that probably isn't a good thing. What if I'm inbred?! )

 

[Liesje]

That was the whole point of the comments, and why I personally started asking the questions. What did you think I was doing?

Your questions are a mute point because IT WAS A JOKE intended for two other people on this board. They're read it, we got our kicks and laughed, other people got offended, I've explained myself and appologized. It's over.

Here, if it makes you feel better

 

[Shag On A Rock]

I don't get why all the sudden everyone is questioning their own, and everyone else's, identity based on some comments on an internet message board. I mean, you're defined by yourself and those around you, NOT but what people on other continents whom you've never met have to say. Come on, let's give ourselves a bit more credit, shall we?

I personally wasn't questioning your (or anyone elses) identity. I was questioning your description of your identity.

But you obviously don't like questions and discovery. Thats okay. I'm quite a different character to yourself. I've learnt many things in this thread. A few USA stereotypes have been reinforced, and a few dispelled.

It's all learning.

 

[Sicy]

We don't have Irish-Australians, Italian-Australians, etc, blah.

So a lot of my Italian family moved from Rome, Italy to Australia maybe 10 years ago. What would you call them?

 

[Liesje]

I personally wasn't questioning your (or anyone elses) identity. I was questioning your description of your identity.

But you obviously don't like questions and discovery. Thats okay. I'm quite a different character to yourself. I've learnt many things in this thread. A few USA stereotypes have been reinforced, and a few dispelled.

If you could ask more explicit questions without including your own list of answers, including the possibility that I am a white-supremicist, I'd be happy to answer....

I like questions, but not when they offend me to the very core of my being.

 

[Sicy]

That was the whole point of the comments, and why I personally started asking the questions. What did you think I was doing?

Well a lot of the other comments were whether or not I or Leis was '100%' Italian or Dutch etc. Plus the whole conversation just kind of flew off into different arguments so I lost the original debate I guess lol.

 

[Shag On A Rock]

OK, well I'd REALLY appreciate it if we could explore without you having to call me a fucking Nazi, alright? You have NO idea how much that offends me and I don't feel I owe you an explanation. I'm done. You can call yourself what you want, and I'll call myself what I want. We don't know each other and we have no influence on each other's history or culture so we have no right to be telling each other whatever the fuck nationality/religion/ethnicity/race/clan/tribe we are.

And yes, in the US, at least where I live, we're taught about "Aryans" as people from Asia/middle east. The only time I've ever used/learned that word was in history classes when studying the Aryan people.

I at no time called you a Nazi or similar. My apologies if you read my post that way. It was one point on a list of possibilities and as I have already discovered you learn a different way to myself. I question and proffer every option and eliminate the incorrect.

As for the use of the word Aryan, thats another learning curve for me. Theres certainly a large contingent of persecuted people who fled the Nazis living in the USA. Much, much larger than here in Oz. I was under the impression the Nazi era was/is heavily studied in the USA. Obviously not. One more myth dispelled. It's all knowledge.

 

[Liesje]

I at no time called you a Nazi or similar. My apologies if you read my post that way. It was one point on a list of possibilities and as I have already discovered you learn a different way to myself. I question and proffer every option and eliminate the incorrect.

As for the use of the word Aryan, thats another learning curve for me. Theres certainly a large contingent of persecuted people who fled the Nazis living in the USA. Much, much larger than here in Oz. I was under the impression the Nazi era was/is heavily studied in the USA. Obviously not. One more myth dispelled. It's all knowledge.

Then what exactly did you mean and how did you think I was going to interpret it?

As for WWII/The Holocaust....it is studied a LOT. It's almost ALL we study at times. But we call them Nazis or anti-semetists, not Aryan. They call THEMSELVES Aryan, but we don't call them that. It's just one of the millions of things they've got wrong.

 

[Sicy]

A few USA stereotypes have been reinforced, and a few dispelled.

What kind of stereotypes? Ehh let me not get started on Aussies...

 

[Liesje]

oops

 

[Shag On A Rock]

So a lot of my Italian family moved from Rome, Italy to Australia maybe 10 years ago. What would you call them?

Wogs probably. And they'd call us Skips.

Seriously, I wouldn't call them anything. Just people. If I was trying to describe them I might say olive skinned, blah, with an Italian accent. Otherwise I wouldn't call them anything at all. They're Australian. Unless they insist otherwise.

One of my closest friends was born in Australia. His parents are from Italy but their all Australian.

 

[Shag On A Rock]

Then what exactly did you mean and how did you think I was going to interpret it?

As a list of possibilities. I wrote it as a list as I intended it as a list.

I have to go to work now, I'll be back later.

 

[Sicy]

Wogs probably. And they'd call us Skips.

Seriously, I wouldn't call them anything. Just people. If I was trying to describe them I might say olive skinned, blah, with an Italian accent. Otherwise I wouldn't call them anything at all. They're Australian. Unless they insist otherwise.

One of my closest friends was born in Australia. His parents are from Italy but their all Australian.

Are you kidding? Honey, they are ITALIAN. Born, raised, speak, read, write Italian. Moved to Aus. in their 50's 60's (as in age).

They are Italians living in Australia.


I think its almost time to

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

Much, much larger than here in Oz. I was under the impression the Nazi era was/is heavily studied in the USA. Obviously not. One more myth dispelled. It's all knowledge.

You will find the word Aryan in 2 places in a world civilzation text book. As a high school history teacher I can assure you that the Nazi era is still covered in great detail.