Friendship problems

[Achtung11]

Hi all. I have a problem with one of my friends and I hope that fellow U2 fans can lend me some advice.

I've been friends in a group of four of us ever since we all met back in college. We graduated a year and a half ago, but still remained close. But then two of us, me and Martin, drifted apart from the 4th guy, Isaac. The 3rd guy, Tom, remained close to all of us.

Anyway, about two month's ago, Tom had his birthday party and rented out a hotel. He invited family and some friends, but didn't invite me or Martin. I found out about the party through his brother's facebook pictures. It was really surprising and upsetting, and so I decided not to call him anymore.

About two weeks after the birthday, Tom instant messaged me, which is when I brought up his birthday party and how it was wrong for him not to invite us. Instead of apologizing, or showing any sort of regret, he tried covering himself with lies, such as it was a last minute thing, he didn't get a chance to invite anyone, and that Isaac happened to be there in the same hotel on the same night.

They were obvious lies so I disproved them right away, and he responded with something like: "forget it man, i'm not discussing this anymore because it's girly. if you want to talk about it, then come over." I found this very unpractical and insensitive, since I live 45 minutes away, and he wanted me to come over to talk about why he didn't invite me to his party.

Its been two months and neither of us have called each other, which is a pretty long period of time for us not to talk. This past weekend he had some friends over, including Martin, but he didn't invite me. When Martin asked him why he hasn't invited me, he told him that he didn't invite me because the last time he invited me over (to talk about his birthday) I didn't show up. But why would I drive 45 minutes to have a conversation??

I'm not looking to make a big deal out of this, or expecting a big conversation, but am I wrong to expect at least some sort of apology or regret or effort from him? Am I wrong here?

I feel sad because now I'm being singled out and avoided, even though we were a group. I feel shitty because he didn't even apologize and is now avoiding me because of his ego.

I'd just like to state that I've had social issues throughout my life. I haven't had many close friends. I had no friends in school, or even high school. In college I made a few, some close, some not close, but even out of the close one's, they were very fragile relationships. Part of the reason that I think I have trouble in social relationships is because i got picked on and bullied all my life in school, and sometimes I get paranoid around people by thinking they are trying to take advantage of me, taking me for granted, or that my opinions don't matter. I've certainly gotten better at it, but its still a part of me somewhat.

Thanks all very much for reading such a long post. I'm just looking for some guidance and thanks for helping me.

 

[ryancoke71]

First off, I am going to give these because I think you need them!

This sounds like a very difficult situation! Tom sounds like a pretty self centered person. These types of people are very hard to stay friends with. I know how much it hurts to slowly lose someone who you thought was a friend, but sometimes it happens. It sounds like Martin is a very good friend. It is good that he brought up the fact that you were not invited. I think that maybe Tom feels guilty and doesn't know quite how to handle it! Perhaps in time he will see the error of his ways.

I hope it works out for you!

 

[VintagePunk]

My take is that it's very often like pulling teeth to get males to discuss interpersonal issues when you're a female and in a close or romantic relationship with them, so I can see how it would be exponentially more difficult for a male to get another male to discuss and own up to friendship issues that they may have caused.

With your past issues, I can see why it would be hard to forgive or just get over it, and why you felt that driving all that way for a conversation that 1) he caused the need for; and 2) he seemed reluctant to have in the first place, was too much for him to ask you to do. But on the other hand, I think you need to ask yourself if this is such a huge deal that you're willing to check out of the friendship over it. Martin was also slighted by not being invited to the birthday party, and yet he has still kept in touch with Tom.

I guess what it boils down to is that you're probably going to have to make the first move to clear the air, since you refused his first (admittedly lame and half-hearted) offer to have a conversation about it. Or, you can choose to disregard the friendship.

Some friends are caring nurturers, and make an effort to include everyone in plans. Other people are less thoughtful and can be flakes with their friends. It doesn't mean that they're not friends necessarily, it just means that you have to see them for what they are, and recognize that they're not overly reliable. Doesn't mean you can't hang out with them from time to time and have fun, though.

I hope that things work out for you, regardless of what you decide.

 

[financeguy]

But why would I drive 45 minutes to have a conversation??

Well, why not?

 

[Achtung11]

First off, I am going to give these because I think you need them!

This sounds like a very difficult situation! Tom sounds like a pretty self centered person. These types of people are very hard to stay friends with. I know how much it hurts to slowly lose someone who you thought was a friend, but sometimes it happens. It sounds like Martin is a very good friend. It is good that he brought up the fact that you were not invited. I think that maybe Tom feels guilty and doesn't know quite how to handle it! Perhaps in time he will see the error of his ways.

I hope it works out for you!

Thanks for the kind words.

Yea maybe it is guilt, or maybe he's just too blindsided to see that he was in the wrong. We'll wait and see. I appreciate your response, thanks again.

 

[Achtung11]

My take is that it's very often like pulling teeth to get males to discuss interpersonal issues when you're a female and in a close or romantic relationship with them, so I can see how it would be exponentially more difficult for a male to get another male to discuss and own up to friendship issues that they may have caused.

With your past issues, I can see why it would be hard to forgive or just get over it, and why you felt that driving all that way for a conversation that 1) he caused the need for; and 2) he seemed reluctant to have in the first place, was too much for him to ask you to do. But on the other hand, I think you need to ask yourself if this is such a huge deal that you're willing to check out of the friendship over it. Martin was also slighted by not being invited to the birthday party, and yet he has still kept in touch with Tom.

I guess what it boils down to is that you're probably going to have to make the first move to clear the air, since you refused his first (admittedly lame and half-hearted) offer to have a conversation about it. Or, you can choose to disregard the friendship.

Some friends are caring nurturers, and make an effort to include everyone in plans. Other people are less thoughtful and can be flakes with their friends. It doesn't mean that they're not friends necessarily, it just means that you have to see them for what they are, and recognize that they're not overly reliable. Doesn't mean you can't hang out with them from time to time and have fun, though.

I hope that things work out for you, regardless of what you decide.

Thanks VintagePunk. This is an interesting way to look at it. You can't be more right about the difficulty of discussing male-male issues. Even though I was hurt over it, I would feel weird discussing a 2 month old issue.

Its not so much that I want to check out of the friendship because I wasn't invited. Its the fact that he's been such an ass after I brought it up that has ticked me off. Had he apologized, or admitted he was wrong, or just shown some regret, then I would have moved past it. But now the issue is not about not being invited, but its about how he seemingly doesn't even care that I'm obviously upset.

So you really think that I'm going to have to make the first call now for our next conversation, whenever it may be? I guess the ball is in my court, either I call, or the friendship is gone.

Also, I have a birthday coming up, do you think I should invite him out for that?

Thanks again, VintagePunk.

 

[Achtung11]

Well, why not?

I tried having the conversation on the internet or phone, but all he said that I should drive down if I want to talk. Given that he was the one at fault, I thought that was a bit insensitive to just demand me to drive down. He could have easily driven up.

 

[VintagePunk]

Thanks VintagePunk. This is an interesting way to look at it. You can't be more right about the difficulty of discussing male-male issues. Even though I was hurt over it, I would feel weird discussing a 2 month old issue.

Its not so much that I want to check out of the friendship because I wasn't invited. Its the fact that he's been such an ass after I brought it up that has ticked me off. Had he apologized, or admitted he was wrong, or just shown some regret, then I would have moved past it. But now the issue is not about not being invited, but its about how he seemingly doesn't even care that I'm obviously upset.

So you really think that I'm going to have to make the first call now for our next conversation, whenever it may be? I guess the ball is in my court, either I call, or the friendship is gone.

Also, I have a birthday coming up, do you think I should invite him out for that?

Thanks again, VintagePunk.

It's understandable that you'd be angry about his assiness after the fact. Sounds like you called him on his bad behaviour, and he tried to lie and weasel his way out of it, rather than own up to it. That's fairly common behaviour for some people, it's hard for some people to say "I screwed up, I was wrong, I'm sorry," without making excuses and getting defensive.

From what you've said, given that he didn't invite you over this past weekend, it sounds like he probably won't make the first move. Maybe he thinks you're pissed and there was no point, maybe he's being stubborn.

I really can't say whether you should invite him to your birthday gathering, that depends more on how you feel about the situation. It obviously does matter to you, or you wouldn't have posted about it. Maybe talk to your mutual friend, and see what advice he can offer? He would have a much better idea of the personalities involved, and the group dynamics, and should be able to give you better informed advice than I ever could. Inviting him could be a chance to patch things up, if that's what you want. Not inviting him negates that chance.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Does he know about your relationship/bullying and being picked on issues? If he does and he still doesn't understand why something like that hurts you..then for me personally, I'd just have to separate myself from that. The older you get the less patience you have for people who don't want to put forth that kind of effort. If he doesn't know and you want to tell him why it hurts you from that perspective then you could try that. You should be able to do that with a friend. And if he still thinks that's "girly", then If he's a true friend he'll come back to you. If not-it hurts but you were true to yourself and you stood up for yourself.

 

[Purplereign]

 

[Achtung11]

Does he know about your relationship/bullying and being picked on issues? If he does and he still doesn't understand why something like that hurts you..then for me personally, I'd just have to separate myself from that. The older you get the less patience you have for people who don't want to put forth that kind of effort. If he doesn't know and you want to tell him why it hurts you from that perspective then you could try that. You should be able to do that with a friend. And if he still thinks that's "girly", then If he's a true friend he'll come back to you. If not-it hurts but you were true to yourself and you stood up for yourself.

He doesn't know about my past, and I probably won't bring it up to him now given how immature he's been. I've decided that he's too immature to waste time on, and I have some wonderful other friends whom I enjoy spending time with. So, I've been feeling better, we'll see what happens.

Thanks for your response.

 

[Achtung11]

It's understandable that you'd be angry about his assiness after the fact. Sounds like you called him on his bad behaviour, and he tried to lie and weasel his way out of it, rather than own up to it. That's fairly common behaviour for some people, it's hard for some people to say "I screwed up, I was wrong, I'm sorry," without making excuses and getting defensive.

From what you've said, given that he didn't invite you over this past weekend, it sounds like he probably won't make the first move. Maybe he thinks you're pissed and there was no point, maybe he's being stubborn.

I really can't say whether you should invite him to your birthday gathering, that depends more on how you feel about the situation. It obviously does matter to you, or you wouldn't have posted about it. Maybe talk to your mutual friend, and see what advice he can offer? He would have a much better idea of the personalities involved, and the group dynamics, and should be able to give you better informed advice than I ever could. Inviting him could be a chance to patch things up, if that's what you want. Not inviting him negates that chance.

I did talk to my mutual friend and he actually made me feel a lot better. He suggested that I don't have to invite anywhere I don't want to just because I feel bad, because he didn't invite me. But at the same time, I can still keep in touch, so I can call him next week, etc. Its a good balance because I don't feel like an idiot for inviting him places when he doesn't invite me, but at the same time I'm not completely cutting off the friendship. I actually feel good about this.

 

[Achtung11]

Thanks purplereign.

 

[Casamares]

Well, I think he wasn't fair for you.
I agree with what has been said before: he seems to be a little bit egoistic person and this invitation to a conversation is a kind of excuse. Why didn't he visit you if these 45 minutes are not a problem?