Pentecostalism

[yolland]

Basstrap was referring to mass killings which were reputedly directly ordered by God.

 

[Basstrap]

Here we go:

Speaking in Tongues EXPOSED!


What's your question?

I think that blaming it on demonic powers is ludicrous. I feel 100% certain my grandparents and family were at no point possessed by demons.

 

[BVS]

Here we go:

Speaking in Tongues EXPOSED!


What's your question?

I am bewildered at the ignorance of Pentecostals today concerning this issue of speaking in tongues.

Nice source

Listen, I don't believe in "speaking in tongues"(I'm not a literalist) but the truth is there is Biblical backing to it, and I find it interesting that someone like yourself that takes the Bible literally doesn't believe in it. It seems contradictary.

As you may not know David J Stewart is also very very questionable(http://davidjstewartexposed.blogspot.com/), so you're gonna have to find a better source. The one verse that contradicts many of his points is:

And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.

—Acts 19:6

 

[Basstrap]

I am, of course, deeply skeptical of tongues. I think it best explained (as previously mentioned) by glossolalia and, in rare cases, xenolalia.

I myself was never "filled with the spirit", though I did try. I think I always held back; even in a frenzied emotional state I knew that in order to go to the next level I would have to just open my mouth and start speaking...well...gibberish. I think it is something we learned by example and tradition. Everyone pretty much spoke it the same way, using a rapid succession of monosyllables.
It would take a lot more confidence than I ever had, to let go and start speaking in that tradition. I probably wouldn't get it right, and everyone would know I was faking.

 

[yolland]

Was it looked down on to not be able to do it?

 

[Diemen]

Here we go:

Speaking in Tongues EXPOSED!


What's your question?

That certainly doesn't appear to be an objective, unbiased source.

 

[Irvine511]

I think when we are killing human beings, we can call it a war.

well, no, you can't, because war has a specific definition.

 

[Inner El Guapo]

I am not a denomination.

Which denominations, in your view, would not fall under "false teachings?"

 

[Basstrap]

Was it looked down on to not be able to do it?

naw, I never got any heat for that. Usually just encouragement to keep trying, and if that failed I'd have to just accept that I did not have that particular gift of the spirit.
It isn't a "do it or die" doctrine; one didn't go to hell for not being filled. It just meant you were a little less spiritually wise.

At least in official dogma people in all other Christian denominations could go to heaven. But, there was certainly a condescending attitude of "we're spiritually better than them."

 

[A stor]

I use to have a neighbor who was Pentecostal in belief. He would harrass me on a daily basis for being Catholic. He would wait outside when I was leaving for work. So he could tell me that I worshiped idols, was a pagen and I would be going straight to hell. It may sound funny, but it wasn't. He would even leave notes on my front porch that Catholics were evil and satanic. I had to put up with his bullshit for years. Thankfully, he has since moved.

I really can relate to the hatefullness that Muslims endure for their religious freedom. I have experienced it too.

 

[BoMac]

I was raised Catholic and now consider myself more agnostic, but I had no idea that Catholicism was so reviled by other Christian denominations. No idea. This comes as a surprise to me.

 

[A stor]

I have friends and family members who are traditional Protestants. Methodist, Lutheran, etc. and they have no problems what so ever with Catholics or any other faith. I think it was just what my ex neighbor was taught in the Pentecostal church.

 

[Basstrap]

I have friends and family members who are traditional Protestants. Methodist, Lutheran, etc. and they have no problems what so ever with Catholics or any other faith. I think it was just what my ex neighbor was taught in the Pentecostal church.

Yeah, that's too bad what you experienced
It's why I said that official dogma doesn't condemn Catholics. In practice, however, there are many people who consider Catholics to be pagans and idolaters.
In protestant denominations in general you get more of this kind of thing; this may be because they have no central authority to determine dogma. You generally don't find fringe churches like the Westboro Baptists in Catholicism. Do you?

Perhaps there is a political analogy to be drawn here. In more centralized forms of government you may find more coherency in values and social norms, whereas in a democracy where there is greater decentralization the product is often more chaotic and messy. Nobody likes Fred Phelps, but in a democracy - in a republic, to be more specific - there is a place for him.
similarly, in protestantism, you might be surprised NOT to find the occasional asshole preacher.

 

[yolland]

Well, some individuals just happen to be bullies, too. I think it's fair to say that IF you're someone with a bit of a sadistic streak, then proselytizing could become one outlet for releasing that while telling yourself what you're doing is completely loving and compassionate, because within that situation it's easily possible to perceive yourself as coming from a standpoint of special authority, and that's exactly what a person with sadistic tendencies likes. But beyond that, in some places--like much of the South for example, but it's not limited to there--religious identity just is more salient a factor in everyone's social identity than elsewhere, and that can lead to rampant denominational stereotyping that pretty much everyone participates in. I probably subscribed to some degree to these local stereotypes myself as a kid...for example, the Baptists are the most poorly educated but also the most pious (sample popular joke: "What do you call a Baptist who can read?" "A Methodist"); the Methodists are better-educated, but probably the least pious (insert story about so-and-so who got plastered at her own husband's funeral reception and those people thought it was funny); the Catholics are the best-educated but have a huge chip on their shoulder towards everyone else (plus, y'know, some of their rituals are weeeiiirrrdd), etc. etc. Anti-Muslim (and anti-Jewish) sentiments are really a bit different, in that there's usually a fairly obvious racial/xenophobic undertone to them, even when they're primarily packaged in religious language. At any rate, the upshot of this type of environment is that "mere" doctrinal differences can morph into something else, which is probably further aggravated by the preoccupation with salvation and the belief (by many) that you'll go to hell if you get the doctrine at all wrong. Whereas if, by contrast, BoMac was never aware of such tensions growing up Catholic, my guess is that's because they truly weren't there.

In protestant denominations in general you get more of this kind of thing; this may be because they have no central authority to determine dogma. You generally don't find fringe churches like the Westboro Baptists in Catholicism. Do you?

I'm not sure it's fair to make protestantism in general answer for the WBC--they're really soooooo out there; there's probably some televangelist who would make a better example. There are self-identified "charismatic Catholics," I've encountered a couple of them, who are often linked with Opus Dei and, in fact, practice speaking in tongues, "spiritual healing" and so on. But I think, in general, you're right that the highly centralized nature of the Catholic Church keeps "fringe" activity at a minimum (though perhaps at the cost of enabling more pervasive institutional corruption in other ways).

 

[Vincent Vega]

I was raised Catholic and now consider myself more agnostic, but I had no idea that Catholicism was so reviled by other Christian denominations. No idea. This comes as a surprise to me.

This extreme level I only know from the States. Here in Germany, many people are critical of the Vatican and some of our Cardinals, especially if they are not Catholic, but else there is not much animosity.
Maybe that's because here there's only two Christian denominations present, more or less. You are either Lutheran or Catholic. Everything else is almost non-existent.
That's the number for religious affiliation for the main religions, according to Wikipedia:
1. Agnostic 34.60%
2. Roman-Catholic 30.50%
3. Lutheran 29.50 %
4. Muslim 4.5%
9. Buddhist 0.30%
10. Jews 0.24%
11. Russian-Orthodox 0.22%

And both Lutherans and Catholics are usually greatly concentrated regionally, for historical reasons. Where I grew up, e.g. in one class of 30 students there were usually one or two Catholics. In another area, the figures will be reversed.
I guess we just have less religions competing with each other, and those who are religious usually are way more relaxed. I would argue that the figure for Agnostics is much closer to 50%. Many of those are simply too lazy to drop out of church, or they are leaving in an area where it's still common to be in a church, like Bavaria. The figures are based on statistics from 2009, so the number of Catholics should be lower.

 

[financeguy]

Religion is weird.

 

[the iron horse]

Which denominations, in your view, would not fall under "false teachings?"

Historical Baptists teachings and views.

 

[Irvine511]

Historical Baptists teachings and views.

why do you think you feel this way?

 

[the iron horse]

why do you think you feel this way?

One word, freedom.

 

[the iron horse]

Reading is fun


What is an Historic Baptist?, David A. West | The Reformed Reader

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

Did you know Jehovahs witnesses are not allowed blood transfusions? They take a verse from the Old Testament wayyyy to literally. Even if they're dying and a blood transfusion will save them, they won't do it. Or if their kid is dying. Won't let them recieve a transfusion.

Now that's a false fucked up teaching.

 

[yolland]

I don't think JW parents are legally permitted to refuse blood transfusions for minors when doctors believe the child's life is endangered without it, though adults and older ("mature") minors can refuse them for themselves.

It's not so much that they take the relevant Bible verses--Gen 9:4, Lev 17:10 and Acts 15:29--"too literally" as that they VERY expansively interpret a prohibition against "eating" blood (what the Hebrew says) to extend to blood transfusions. (And worse, from the standpoint of Jewish law, that they apparently recognize no principle of saving a life taking precedence over keeping a commandment.)

 

[Vincent Vega]

A few years ago there was a case where JW parents "kidnapped" their own child to prevent it from receiving cancer treatment. But I cannot recall the details.

 

[BVS]

Historical Baptists teachings and views.

One word, freedom.

Reading is fun


What is an Historic Baptist?, David A. West | The Reformed Reader

So the one denomination that is right, just happens to be the one you were raised in? Well that's convenient...

So how are Baptist more free than say Methodists? It's funny that you mention freedom when part of the reason for the Baptist split in America was based on Southern Baptists not condoning slavery.

Pretty bold statements for a denomination that's only 400 years old.

So you want us to read about the Baptist from a Baptist website, but they're almost as biased as you.

 

[Irvine511]

One word, freedom.

or maybe because of where you were born and how you were raised and if you had been born somewhere else we'd be hearing about how great Mormonism or Roman Catholicism or Judaism or secular humanism is?

 

[jonnytakeawalk]

Here we go:

Speaking in Tongues EXPOSED!


What's your question?

Ah yes written by the same man who gave us this delightful insight into hell.... Hell Inside The Earth -by David J. Stewart

'Can you imagine how hot Gene Simmons' hell will be if he dies in his sins?'

I can just imagine God shouting, 'Right everyone let's put a few more logs on the fire Gene Simmons is coming!'

 

[the iron horse]

Ah yes written by the same man who gave us this delightful insight into hell.... Hell Inside The Earth -by David J. Stewart

'Can you imagine how hot Gene Simmons' hell will be if he dies in his sins?'

I can just imagine God shouting, 'Right everyone let's put a few more logs on the fire Gene Simmons is coming!'

My point here is that it is a false teaching.

You can see this often on so called "Christian Television."

 

[Inner El Guapo]

My point here is that it is a false teaching.

Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.

Let's hope you got it right.

You've thrown down that gauntlet...so may The Force be with you.

Too bad all those Christians who gave their own blood for 1600 years before 'Baptists' figured it all out had it all wrong. Sucks to be them, I guess. Oh...and that's only Historic Baptists...so of the 70 million Baptists, I guess not all of them have the proper teachings from the same old white haired man that The Iron Horse listens to.

 

[maycocksean]

That business about hell is a false teaching too.

FWIW

 

[the iron horse]

So the one denomination that is right, just happens to be the one you were raised in? Well that's convenient...

So how are Baptist more free than say Methodists? It's funny that you mention freedom when part of the reason for the Baptist split in America was based on Southern Baptists not condoning slavery.

Pretty bold statements for a denomination that's only 400 years old.

So you want us to read about the Baptist from a Baptist website, but they're almost as biased as you.

I simply answered the question.

I would just suggest you read and search and question.