Is Feminism Still Relevant?

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

Pearl

Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Joined
Dec 1, 2003
Messages
5,736
Location
NYC
Country singer and millennial Taylor Swift recently told the Daily Beast she doesn't consider herself a feminist, explaining to the interviewer who posed the question: "I don't really think about things as guys versus girls." But many feminists would argue that Swift, 22, is missing the point, that feminism isn't a battle between the sexes.
I can't say I blame Swift if she hasn't quite pinned down the definition of the word. I do identify as a feminist -- after all, I trust in my abilities, combat stereotypes and believe in equal rights. But I've also been unsure at times what exactly it means to be a feminist and whether the modern movement is the best vehicle for gender equality.
Women have been divided over feminism, its definition and practice, since the first suffragettes demanded space in politics. Even today, asking a roomful of millennial women, roughly those 18-29, whether they identify as feminist will elicit a range of responses: yes, no and someplace in between.
"If you went up to a millennial and asked if they believe in equal rights for all, they would look at you like you're crazy, because that's a silly question," said Lauren Rikleen, executive-in-residence at Boston College. "But if you ask if they're feminist, there's this backing away and an emotional reaction."
That reaction is at odds with the attitudes of women who came of age in the '70s, '80s and even '90s, said Dr. Paola Bacchetta, an associate professor of gender and women's studies at University of California at Berkeley.
Read more: Women gain wider access to power
After the first wave of women's rights activists campaigned for the vote and the second wave fought for reproductive rights and parity in the workplace, it seemed a given that many progressive young women had no qualms calling themselves feminists, even if they didn't participate in the movement. But progress has given some young women grounds to dismiss feminism's necessity, Bacchetta said: "We have a long way to go, and the idea that things are OK, that people aren't thinking about it because they feel like their lives are OK, is also a part of the problem."
After an election season that spurred debate over women's rights so heated that some said a war was being waged on women (a fight that may have given President Barack Obama and other Democrats a bump in the polls) it bears exploring what feminism means to millennial women.

Where are all the millennial feminists? - CNN.com

I agree very much with this article. Believe it or not, I'm not sure if I should call myself a feminist. Sure, I believe in reproductive rights, equal pay, and women being treated with respect. But as this article points out, there are so many ways to define feminism that it can be very confusing. Some groups make slam women who choose to be stay-at-home moms, others want to ban pornography and strip clubs forever (note: I'm not too crazy about both but they are complex issues). Heck, some feminists say women should be domineering towards their male partners and reject any type of chivalry, even if a guy holds a door open for you on a date. If you don't agree with certain forms of feminism, you are not a real feminist then.

But then again, there are still many misogynists out there and not enough justice for rape victims. If some men hear the term "feminist" they think, "oh she's a lesbian who hates men" - and that can be a man of any age. There's even some women who despise feminists (Phyllis Schlafly, anyone?)Hence the reason why feminism is a term to be proud of because it tells those woman-haters to go to hell.

I don't think feminism has run its course because there is still work to be done, but it has gone in so many different directions that it is hard to pin point what is real feminism. So that's my attitude towards the term.

Thoughts?
 
Everyone seems to have different ideas of what a feminist is or should be. Most of these different definitions seem to come from people who will tell you're they're not feminists. Like Taylor Swift.

I happily call myself a feminist. Anyone who thinks that women should be treated equally should happily call themselves a feminist, too - men or women. (And "equal" covers a ginormous range of things.)

I don't let other people's misconceptions about feminism stop me from calling myself a feminist.
 
I'm a feminist and it will always remain relevant as long as we have fairly large sections of our society who still don't seem to get it.
 
We have a black president, elected with many white votes, twice.

and 20 women in the Senate.

So racism and sexism no longer exist. We all just need to move on.
 
I'm with Cori on this one.

I feel being a feminist means supporting the idea of and allowing women to do what they want to do without making them feel like less because of their choices. If a woman wants to be a career gal who doesn't have kids, fine. If a woman wants to be a stay-at-home mom, fine. If a woman likes having a crazy sex life, or enjoys doing porn, or whatever, fine. If a woman wants to get married, fine. And so on. As long as the woman is willingly choosing to live whatever live she wants, and is happy with or in whatever she's doing, whether she's acting like the stereotypical "girly girl" or not, I consider that a good thing.

And I certainly will continue to support things like equal pay for equal work, and being able to have control over my own body, and things of that sort, as well. I think there's been some great improvements made in regards to how women are treated in this country and in the world (for the most part) over time, but there are still a lot of horrible ways to mistreat and disrespect women still going on out there that we should continue to be aware of and try and stop. The comments this year from some politicians about women's health issues, the patronizing attitude about women voters that was out there...that's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of problems we've still got to deal with.

Anywho, blah, blah, bottom line, I would consider myself feminist, yes.
 
Yep- the Mr. And I are both feminists. I've always defined it as equal rights, equal pay, etc- not "us against them."

I would have never married a man who wasn't a feminist as well.

I hope there will be a day soon when feminism will be irrelevant- when both sexes are on equal ground. I think it's coming, but we still have a long ways to go.
 
The sexes are not yet on equal ground with regards to pay and prestige, so feminism is still relevant. Men and women are not "the same," and the only misguided brand of feminism is the sort that tries to equate them qualitatively, but the two sexes deserve equal opportunities and honor in our society. Until that happens, I'll always consider myself a feminist.
 
I'm a feminist and it will always remain relevant as long as we have fairly large sections of our society who still don't seem to get it.

This. The fact that feminism's continued relevance is even a question is testament - unfortunately - to how successful the Right has been in giving the movement the connotation of some misandric, bra-burning cult.
 
Yikes, I guess I'm making a mistake being reluctant to call myself a feminist :reject:

Well, I guess this is a good time to start?
 
I think you should do whatever makes you comfortable. If you don't want to call yourself a feminist, don't. A label, or lack thereof, won't affect your values one bit
 
I never walked away from the term feminist, though I've walked away from some feminist organizations in the same way I would not associate myself with PETA.

I claim the right to define myself in any way I see fit without apology or justification. I am a feminist.

I believe in reproductive rights and choice, but that is not the be-all and end-all of feminism for me. My feminism doesn't see women as being morally or intellectually superior to men (nor do I see men as morally or intellectually superior to women). I've seen horrible and stupid women and I've seen horrible and stupid men. My feminism doesn't want to limit, define, punish or discard men. My feminism just doesn't want women to be limited or defined or punished or discarded.
 
BonosSaint said:
My feminism doesn't see women as being morally or intellectually superior to men (nor do I see men as morally or intellectually superior to women). I've seen horrible and stupid women and I've seen horrible and stupid men. My feminism doesn't want to limit, define, punish or discard men. My feminism just doesn't want women to be limited or defined or punished or discarded.

I agree with that 100%. Taylor Swift is only 22 so I get why to some extent. But if she thinks feminism is about boys vs girls, maybe she should do some more reading about it.

Feminism is about being able to call yourself whatever you want, about having the right and choice to do that. It's about women having the same rights to freedoms and choices that everyone else enjoys. About having rights to equal pay, education, all of that too.
 
Personally, I would say that Taylor Swift's opinion on feminism is beyond irrelevant. This is someone who makes her living through juvenalia. The trend of media pretending that any given celebrity's thoughts on social or cultural issues are intrinsically relevant is an extremely dangerous one, especially in terms of women's issues. There are very few A-list female celebrities whom one can safely call feminist. In music especially they tend simply to exploit many of the worst stereotypes of women for their own gain.
 
It seems to happen anytime any celebrity is asked about feminism. Lady Gaga comes to mind. I remember being disappointed by her response, as I had more expectations based on what she's all about. If I recall correctly, she had a similar response, something like "No, because I like men." Ugh.

Taylor Swift? I had no expectations and not much interest in what she might have to say about it.
 
Even so, I felt the entire article reflected my attitudes toward feminism and I wanted to share and discuss here.
 
It seems to happen anytime any celebrity is asked about feminism. Lady Gaga comes to mind. I remember being disappointed by her response, as I had more expectations based on what she's all about. If I recall correctly, she had a similar response, something like "No, because I like men." Ugh.

Taylor Swift? I had no expectations and not much interest in what she might have to say about it.


yes, Swift and GaGa don't need any Ledbetter legislation or care if birth control is included in their health plans.
 
to get to the real question, sexism still exist,
there was plenty on display this election cycle

the term feminism, who cares :shrug:
I try and stay away from labels and just support the right thing, position, politicians
that is the most, and best we can do

I think labels divide people
 
It looks to me like an entire article was written based on a throw-away quote :shrug:


I thought it was an interesting article, not because of Taylor Swift, but I've heard similar aversion to the word "feminist" from a lot of women. That doesn't particularly bother me. You embrace the word that resonates with you and for a lot of women, there is no resonance with "feminist". Perhaps they'll need to find a new word. Maybe they don't need any word. But if they think the journey is done...when there is so much more to travel....that would be a shame.

Women take stands for many things, but not always for themselves.
I've learned to be selfish that way. And I've learned to be generous that way.
 
I agree with all of you who said that the word "feminism" is often the issue. In that sense, labels can hurt.

Do I consider myself a feminist? Yes. Do I think that women have reached parity? No. It is a very obvious statement of fact in less developed countries so we don't even have to discuss it. Women there have limited opportunities with respect to work, education, independence, etc. In the west it is more difficult to see, but still exists. There is a reason why women make about 70 cents for every $1 made by a man. Now that number is skewed because of certain industries, but holds true.

I am a corporate lawyer. It is an extremely male-dominated field, to this day. I was the only woman in my year in my practice group when I started working at the firm right out of law school. Almost all of the women leave well before partnership year which then skews the ratio even further. Obviously some of it is due to self-selection, but there are many things about working at a large corporate firm as a woman that work against you. I have to say that aside from your usual asshole that every workplace has, I was treated extremely well there, by the men and women. Male partners were great, willing to mentor and I never felt like I was getting worse assignments than my male peers. To be perfectly honest I think that my path to partnership was in some way easier than theirs because I would be fulfilling a quota. Where the differences arose was in networking opportunities. Keep in mind that corporate clients are overwhelmingly male. So when a client invites a partner for a day out on his sailboat, or to play 18 holes of golf, or to go to a hockey game or for drinks after work, etc. do you think that the 55-year-old partner will invite me to join them or the 30-year-old guy sitting next to me? This in turn means that my relationship with the client will never be the same as theirs, which means it is harder for me to drum up business in the longterm, etc. It is things like these which are far less obvious that hurt women in that particular field.

As for Taylor Swift, I don't mean to sound judgmental about age, but she is only 22. I can almost guarantee to any woman out there who is 22 right now that when she is 30 or 35, she will have a VASTLY different view of the world. It is something that can only come with age and time and experience and the observations that come with it. At 33 I wouldn't presume to understand our world the way my Mom does at 58. In addition to age, Taylor Swift is the 0.1% and therefore has essentially no understanding what life is like for women generally. Does she worry about getting a promotion, paying her mortgage and all her other bills, how she can afford a new car for the winter when the old one craps out, her husband's job security, how she can get her kids into a good school district, how her elderly parents will retire without a pension and on and on.
 
Hey anitram, my brother is also a corporate lawyer, is also from Toronto, and also works in new York. I'm sure it's a big industry, but I wonder if you might know him.
 
I would generally agree that labels are much less important than actions and behavior, but in the case of the term "feminist" we have a word that has been coopted by the Right to the extent that people now are often hesitant to use it. In that sense, I think using the term "feminist" is empowering in and of itself, simply because it represents a rejection of conservative propaganda.
 
Hey anitram, my brother is also a corporate lawyer, is also from Toronto, and also works in new York. I'm sure it's a big industry, but I wonder if you might know him.

Probably not as I have not been in NYC since 2008. I know I should update my Interference profile!
 
Well he's been there since 2003 or so. But ya, it's a big place. He's at Sullivan & Cromwell
 
i has a big :yawn: so i will comment more another day....

I am a proud Feminist, especially as a girl growing up in the late 50's - mid- 60's who loved "girl" things like clothes/fashion & jewelry but also "boy" things like science, politics, tinker toys & lego. It wasn't exactly easy, but thank goodness, I did live in nyc in a mixed ethnic neighborhood I didn't live in an enclave of just my ethnic group; where it might have been even harder to be myself.

and still love all these things! :D
 
iron yuppie said:
I would generally agree that labels are much less important than actions and behavior, but in the case of the term "feminist" we have a word that has been coopted by the Right to the extent that people now are often hesitant to use it. In that sense, I think using the term "feminist" is empowering in and of itself, simply because it represents a rejection of conservative propaganda.

Good point. I hardly think Lady Gaga is alone in equating the word feminist, or any sort of feminist ideas/ideals, with man hating. You can still find plenty of examples of that. Right and left, male and female. All over the spectrum. Her whole issue with her weight gain recently and the scrutiny of it..well maybe she could look at that as a feminist issue.

And Taylor Swift is relevant because of her age, and as anitram pointed out - her income level gives her a whole different perspective. She's symbolic in those ways. To be that young with that kind of.money and that kind of life , well it's difficult to relate. Her father was a stockbrocker and she grew up on a Christmas tree farm. Rather idyllic 22 years so far. I applaud her for it, she 's beautiful and writes very catchy songs and is very successful
 
BonosSaint said:
Women take stands for many things, but not always for themselves.

Yep. It's selfish to take a stand for yourself, that's what some of us are often told. You get the message that you're not worth it, not supposed to feel like you are. Sometimes you learn the hard way and sometimes it takes way too long.

It gets demoralizing to always have the backs of others and to sometimes feel like no one has yours. That's when it's best to just have your own and be able to shrug it off.
 
Back
Top Bottom