Global Pandemic Part V: Enjoy a Corona while flying Delta

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LuckyNumber7 said:
I don’t think Tom Brady is as conservative as Donald Trump made him seem. His brand got caught up in politics. I doubt he wasn’t going to get vaccinated, regardless of the team angle.
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I wouldn't even think of his politics when it comes to getting vaccinated. Don't even know what they truly are(he cares about his image too much). For me it's a person who is extremely health conscious possibly being wary of a new vaccine. That doesn't make him an anti vaxxer.

For whatever it's worth I follow him and the Obamas on Instagram, so that's how I know he follows them. Don't know why he would follow Barack Obama if he's a Trumpster. I wouldn't have followed Trump before he was banned on there.
 
Well isn't that special-of course first incident of that nature on Vancouver Island is par for the course in US.


A man urinated on the counter of a Dairy Queen restaurant in Canada after being asked to wear a mask, reports say
Zahra Tayeb Sep 5, 2021, 7:50 AM

A man reportedly urinated over a Dairy Queen front counter during a dispute in Canada.

CTV News first reported the story. The incident reportedly occurred on Saturday night at a branch on Vancouver Island, British Columbia. A video of the incident was posted to Facebook.

In the video, the man can be heard arguing with staff over the restaurant's mask policy. "You do not have a brain" the man, who has not yet been identified, shouted at workers behind the counter.

A worker asked him to follow the rules, telling him he couldn't be served unless he wore a mask.


"What are the rules?" the man responded, before saying: "BC policy says you have to observe exemptions."

The staff member replied: "Sorry, I don't want to argue with you, we have customers standing behind you, we want to serve them."

Following this conversation, the man swore and appeared to unzip his trousers and relieve himself. Staff can be heard screeching in horror as they witness the scene.

"This is the first incident of this nature," Royal Canadian Mounted Police Sgt Chris Manseau told CTV. He added: "I think people should just wear their masks and be safe and be polite."
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
Insider.com


A doctor in rural Oklahoma said the number of people overdosing on the deworming medication ivermectin was so high that emergency rooms were filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with hospitals in Sallisaw, told KFOR, an NBC affiliate in Oklahoma City.

McElyea spoke to the channel this week about the dangers of overdosing on the version of ivermectin meant for use in livestock. He said the hospitals he worked at became overwhelmed after people started taking ivermectin, believing unverified claims that it's an effective COVID-19 treatment.

"The ERs are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated," McElyea said.
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Let's revisit this latest internet fable, too. The NBC station was fooled by the good doctor.
 
I’ve read that Sturgis appears to be a super spreader event, again.

Yet didn’t we just have dozens of mini sturgis over the college football weekend, and soon with NFL ?

It was awesome to have crowds again, bringing that familiar sound and experience to these games, but part of me wonders if we’ve only made this fall a whole lot worse for hospitals and schools

I’ve read that we really need to be above 85% vaccinated to slow/stop delta and we’re at what, 51% ??
 
i know that the optics of a full stadium don't necessarily look great, but no - we did not have dozens of mini sturgis' over the weekend - no more than we had dozens of them last summer/fall during the social justice protests.

the virus doesn't transmit well outdoors. we already know this.

sturgis was a super spreader event because there are/were lots of up close and personal interactions in dark bars and clubs - not because there were a bunch of motorcycles outside (which would have been fine) - just the same as the oft studied (and likely reason why we're all wearing masks again) outbreak in P-Town earlier this year - close and personal interactions in small spaces.

a small dive bar with 50 unmasked people inside is a much more likely to become a super spreader event than an outdoor football stadium with 100,000 - and we need to stop even insinuating otherwise.
 
He would lose people if he said college games aren’t a good idea.

Anyone who gets lost over a comment about masks was lost from the get go.
 
I agree with him though.

Yes we didn't see large surges from the BLM protests last year, but a lot of those people wore masks at those events.

Delta isn't the original virus either, it's more contagious, and while I do agree outdoor activities are much safer than indoor (and coming from someone who teaches indoors 4x a week), it's not like these people are stuck to their seats. They use the restrooms which we know are almost always packed

There's the bars, restaurants, and house parties that happen all around campus and the college town.

Hope it's all completely wrong and off, and we don't fuck ourselves over even more.

I saw polling that was encouraging where more and more people are in favor of mandates. For businesses, flights, etc.
 
BEAL said:
I agree with him though.

Yes we didn't see large surges from the BLM protests last year, but a lot of those people wore masks at those events.

Delta isn't the original virus either, it's more contagious, and while I do agree outdoor activities are much safer than indoor (and coming from someone who teaches indoors 4x a week), it's not like these people are stuck to their seats. They use the restrooms which we know are almost always packed

There's the bars, restaurants, and house parties that happen all around campus and the college town.

Hope it's all completely wrong and off, and we don't fuck ourselves over even more.

I saw polling that was encouraging where more and more people are in favor of mandates. For businesses, flights, etc.
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look - the kids in these southern and midwestern statdiums without masks? when they're not in the stadium? they're college kids... without masks.

the stadium looks bad - but they're at greater risk in their maskless dorms, classrooms, basement parties, bars and clubs.
 
Nobody is going to police mask wearing in their dorms or private parties nor do I think we need to. You lead by example though. People watch sports events, there’s a broader impact beyond just some college kid’s party.
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
He would lose people if he said college games aren’t a good idea.

Anyone who gets lost over a comment about masks was lost from the get go.
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But the latest was that masks weren't supposed to be required outside if you're vaccinated. Because the latest data says outdoor transmission is not likely.

I get it, it's a constantly evolving virus. But the general public views it as Fauci et al contradicting themselves constantly. Honestly sometimes I can see why people feel that way. Occasionally I do.

People are beyond tired and frustrated.
 
“Outside” isn’t some magical place though. If you’re shoulder to shoulder with 25,000 other people you’re breathing in their air. Idk, it’s quite obvious to me that that is a higher risk environment.
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
“Outside” isn’t some magical place though. If you’re shoulder to shoulder with 25,000 other people you’re breathing in their air. Idk, it’s quite obvious to me that that is a higher risk environment.
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I know that. But when I was two weeks past fully vaccinated I finally felt comfortable going to a baseball game outside with no mask, and the science people said that was ok to do.

Obviously with Delta that changed, but I watch games at that same place on tv and very few people are wearing masks (and no publicly available data indicating that those games are super spreaders). Because of the city indoor mask mandate you have to wear one in the indoor areas of the ballpark now.

Dr. Fauci went on tv over the weekend and said that boosters were always going to be required because the vaccine efficacy was always going to be reduced. So what's the deal, they didn't want to tell the public that because they were afraid people wouldn't get vaccinated? The messaging has been a mess.

I am not an anti Fauci, just looking for honesty and transparency
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
I know that. But when I was two weeks past fully vaccinated I finally felt comfortable going to a baseball game outside with no mask, and the science people said that was ok to do.



Obviously with Delta that changed, but I watch games at that same place on tv and very few people are wearing masks (and no publicly available data indicating that those games are super spreaders). Because of the city indoor mask mandate you have to wear one in the indoor areas of the ballpark now.



Dr. Fauci went on tv over the weekend and said that boosters were always going to be required because the vaccine efficacy was always going to be reduced. So what's the deal, they didn't want to tell the public that because they were afraid people wouldn't get vaccinated? The messaging has been a mess.



I am not an anti Fauci, just looking for honesty and transparency
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Nobody said that was okay to do though? By all accounts, there were no “science people” saying you’re free to gather en masse. Most of the conversation was still about how stadiums/arenas should be off limits for unvaccinated people and masked for vaccinated people.

I think where you’re making a mistake here is conflating public health policy with science. That’s especially challenging given that we are at the frontier of a pandemic. Science requires some sense of theory and is revised by study. Public health needs to be pragmatic. It may be that you are hearing slightly different versions of the same general message, and that message is partially made up of science and partially made up of a pragmatic social study (e.g. the public health policy folks determined that they will not be able to stop you from going to the baseball game in this country, so they will find the best guess alternative as to how to make it accessible).

I’m not sure what you’re saying about “no public information” saying that outdoor gatherings en masse haven’t been super-spreader events. First, no need to use the buzzword. It’s not a technical term, so it’s not surprising that you’re finding that the media is in fact biased. I don’t mean to give the Trump people some credit here, but the reality is you’re going to hear Trump’s rose garden event or a rally of his be called a super-spreader event, but you won’t hear a baseball game be called as such. That’s probably because Donald Trump was flippantly running out there downplaying the seriousness of the virus, disregarding social distancing, and actively getting everyone killed, whereas people attending a baseball game in a socially distant fashion are simply trying to regain some portion of their lives back.

Dr. Fauci was against Pfizer coming out and declaring a third shot was needed because it wasn’t Pfizer’s place or role to do so. Another reality though is that early evidence was suggesting waning efficacy. That’s not something they should’ve known in advance. That required data. I’m not sure what you expect from them regarding transparency on this issue. There are many moving parts, and they (the CDC and NIAID and USAMRIID and whoever else) are scientific organizations caught in a political shitstorm. None of them were readily equipped to be playing ball with politicians, the media, and giant corporations.
 
Trump's rose garden event was bookended by indoor maskless social gatherings. That's why it became a super spreader.

There is some evidence that trump outdoor rallies were followed by minor surges. But I wouldn't put that on the fact that it was a crowded event, but rather because it was a crowd of people who were more likely to ignore any and all tips to avoid covid, before during and after.

Same with Sturgis. It's not THAT they gathered. It's what they did after they gathered, combined with a large group of people who may have been unlikely to get vaccinated and/or follow any mitigation advice.

The only well documented case of a super spreader event tied to an outdoor sporting event was in March of 2020 on northern Italy. But this was before we knew much about the virus, and again also involved large crowds likely to jam into packed bars before and after the event.

Studies on last year's NFL and college games showed that they weren't super spreaders. They were mostly limited seating, but that number increased heavily as the year went on. Still, no super spreader events. Even the indoor basketball playoff games didn't cause any documented surges.

The Bucks had 100,000 people outside the arena and had 500 documented cases that they could possibly tie back to the Deer District. But it also came at a time where the state was seeing a huge increase in cases - and the rate of infection outside of Milwaukee was greater than the rate of infection at the actual site of the event, so it's inconclusive at best.

Many of these colleges where we see these huge crowds? They require vaccination to attend the school now.

Music festivals seen to be more likely to be super spreaders for the obvious reason - people are singing (poorly) for hours at a time in close proximity. But even here there's some evidence that shows that festivals on more remote areas - where people are more likely to need to pack into a bus or train to get to the site - have had more incidents than, say, a lollapalooza, which was held in a large, walkable city.

Is there zero risk going to an outdoor sporting event? Of course not. But as with everything nowadays people and local governments need to decide what an appropriate level of risk is. Is shutting down these huge revenue generating events, most (not all, but most) of which are held in areas of high vaccination, a risk worth taking, when the majority of the documentation right now currently shows that it is highly unlikely (but not impossible) for the event to become a super spreader?
 
not to beat the proverbial dead horse (which is what interference does best)...

https://twitter.com/barstoolsports/status/1434227610393972737

forgive me for using a tweet from the barstool assholes, it was the first one that came up. alas...

on the outset this looks horrifying. so many unmasked humans in close contact. the comments are pretty much as expected - left leaning people screaming about COVID, right leaning people calling the left sheeples.

but what are the actual facts here?
--the school has a 90% vaccination rate.
--all unvaccinated students and faculty at UW are required to undergoing mandatory testing
--the city of madison has a vaccination rate just shy of 75%
--high risk citizens have a vaccination rate of 95%
--covid rates in dane county are actually 3% less week over week, with 6% fewer hospitalizations. the rate of infection, while still high, has remained stable over the past few weeks and if anything is beginning to see a slight decrease.
--if there was to be a surge from a potential superspreader event it's likely we would have begun to see a spike as it's inside the 3 to 5 day window when the majority of people begin to see symptoms after exposure.
--since all unvaccinated persons are required to be tested, they'd be able to pick up an uptick in cases even amongst asymptomatic persons and/or persons with mild symptoms (as most college aged individuals do not see severe covid symptoms). that hasn't occurred.

are they out of the woods yet? not officially - it's not impossible that they see a spike today. but for now it appears that this event went off without issue and without being a super spreader. why? because despite the very loud bitching from a very vocal minority of people? we are actually much smarter about this thing now, and the school has taken the appropriate precautions to ensure that those on campus are either fully vaccinated and/or receiving regular testing.
 
We’ve already established that the virus still spreads amongst vaccinated people, albeit at a lower efficacy l. The amount vaccinated is less important then the amount attending. These events should be socially distant (and for vaccinated people only).

Also, this isn’t beating a dead horse. The horse is very much so alive.
 
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https://www.nytimes.com/article/breakthrough-infections-covid-19-coronavirus.html

there's still a lot unknown - but it's becoming more and more clear that vaccinated persons are only spreading COVID if/when they are symptomatic.

one positive of COVID is that people who are actually sick aren't "pushing through," they're staying home.

that doesn't mean that everyone will - or that there isn't risk. but the odds of transmission at an event like this one in madison - at a place of very high (over 90%) vaccination? the risk of the event becoming a super spreader is very low. that doesn't mean that there won't be breakthrough cases, or that someone might get sick and pass it along.

but at some point it gets absurd. a vaccination rate well above the expected threshold for herd immunity, an even higher rate of vaccination in the community among at risk individuals, outdoor event, 18 months of changed behaviors towards disease/germs in general?
 
Your pure measure for what’s “absurd” is hospital capacity. It has always been the measure for what works and what doesn’t. Holding capacity as a constant or as a function of population, we don’t stop curbing social behaviors until the ramification of said social behaviors doesn’t threaten our public health infrastructure.

Last I checked, hospitals were still being swarmed with COVID patients.
 
That’s absolutely not true. A breakout in Madison causes a breakout nationwide. This is an all or nothing cooperation game. That’s precisely why we as the US have sucked so much at this Covid game and seen no results from taking measures to curb Covid, while other countries with a stronger centralized goal have, proportionally, done at least marginally better, if not outright better.
 
Biden is going to mandate vaccines or weekly covid testing for all employers with more than 100 or more employees. Thousands of dollars in fines per employee for failure to follow that.
 
Last edited:
From CNN

Biden plans to sign an executive order requiring all government employees be vaccinated against Covid-19, with no option of being regularly tested to opt out. The President will also sign an order directing the same standard be applied to employees of contractors who do business with the federal government.

He will require that 300,000 educators in federal Head Start programs be vaccinated and will call on governors to require vaccinations for schoolteachers and staff.

And he will require the 17 million health care workers at facilities receiving funds from Medicare and Medicaid to be fully vaccinated, expanding the mandate to hospitals, home care facilities and dialysis centers around the country.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
Biden is going to mandate vaccines or weekly covid testing for all employers with more than 100 or more employees. Thousands of dollars in fines per employee for failure to follow that.
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Totally laughing at my Anti-Vax neighbor who recently said that he employer will never force her to get the vaccine or take tests. :lol:
 
Are we finally going to use the enormous mountain of vaccine doses we've been hoarding like Smaug? Big if true.
 
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