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Old 07-17-2014, 10:22 PM   #21
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Why was the flight path changed?

On the 15th the same flight was made to avoid the regions of conflict.



But why did it change to go right through the heart of the conflict? Why did it happen?

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Old 07-17-2014, 10:24 PM   #22
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prime suspect MH17 disaster: Is this the man who shot down the plane?
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:36 PM   #23
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The plane was reportedly 10km above the ground, from what I understand the rebels only have weapons/equipment that can reach up to 3km.

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A referendum in March — widely dismissed as a farce — saw the territory incorporated into Russia.
Both the self proclaimed 'people's republics' are not and have never claimed to already be part of Russia. And it's interesting that this 'farce' had more enthusiastic involvement than the 'proper and fair' presidential elections did.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:54 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2 View Post
Believe me, I'm no pro-nationalist anti-Russian character.

I wasn't even referring to KAL 007. I was speaking a bit more modern day, referring to Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 in 2001 (as a BSAE I tend to read into aviation disaster a lot).
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:59 PM   #25
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Believe me, I'm no pro-nationalist anti-Russian character.

I wasn't even referring to KAL 007. I was speaking a bit more modern day, referring to Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 in 2001 (as a BSAE I tend to read into aviation disaster a lot).
But wasn't that an error by the Ukrainian armed forces? I don't remember that crash at all, but upon reading, the Ukrainian armed forces even admitted that they were most likely at fault for it on that particular occasion.

(I was reading on Wikipedia so FWIW feel free to correct me)
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:21 PM   #26
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https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489813837013848065

An ATC at Boryspil airport claims that he saw two Ukrainian jets following the plane before it disappeared off the radar.

Take it with as much credibility as you like.

The only conclusion you can come to right now is that there is no conclusion.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:22 PM   #27
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Ukraine is blaming Russia and Russia is blaming Ukraine.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:23 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2 View Post
But wasn't that an error by the Ukrainian armed forces? I don't remember that crash at all, but upon reading, the Ukrainian armed forces even admitted that they were most likely at fault for it on that particular occasion.

(I was reading on Wikipedia so FWIW feel free to correct me)
Sorry, my post was supposed to say I was *actually* referring to the Ukranian event.

Meaning, I was erroneously counting that as Russian in my head.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:31 PM   #29
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Ukraine is blaming Russia and Russia is blaming Ukraine.
That was to be expected.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:32 PM   #30
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Oh, okay. No problem.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:54 PM   #31
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Journalists seem to be falling for Strelkov's supposed threatening posts on social media, it's a fake account. This is the 'official' page.
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Old 07-18-2014, 12:01 AM   #32
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Journalists will fall for anything these days, it's sad. We live in such a day and age where news can travel instantly, and everyone wants to be first.

It's highly irresponsible and can be dangerous.
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Old 07-18-2014, 12:04 AM   #33
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As someone who flies Malaysian a lot (I get staff benefits through QANTAS and as a One World carrier we have reciprocal rights) I can say they are one of the most professional and safety conscious carriers out there.

I was woken early this morning with the news that a number of QANTAS staff were booked to fly home to Melbourne and Brisbane from Amsterdam with KL being the stop over point (MH17 was scheduled to refuel in KL and continue onto Melbourne under another flight number - same plane). In a twist of fate due to the overbooking of MH17 it appears all of them went through customs, checked bags and were at the gate waiting to board when told they would not be able to fly due to overbooking (before anyone says anything their bags were not on board at that point - staff bags go on last these days for this exact reason - saves time taking them off if the staff do not get on).

They were re-accomodated on the Cathay Pacific Amsterdam to HKIA flght instead and some on the later KLM flight (who have codeshare agreements with Malaysian even though they are not One World) with connections back to Australia tonight on QANTAS. I've been told as soon as they stepped off the flights at HKIA they were taken into rooms and told what has happened by locally based QANTAS and Malaysian staff (their flights left Amsterdam before or just as the crash happened and for obvious reasons no mention was made mid-flight).

Needless to say I am relieved as two of the Melbourne ladies are quite good frends of mine and there had been no official word they weren't on MH17 as planned.

Sadly many have lost their lives - in completely barbaric conditions. It has been one helll of a morning but please do not blame Malaysian for this. They are having a horror year and are a really good, quality airline.

I really can't add much more as we are being briefed with dribs and drabs of info at this end.
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Old 07-18-2014, 12:13 AM   #34
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Malaysian Airlines are just about the last entity to blame in this, unfortunately if the Spanish ATC at the Boryspil airport in Kiev is to be believed (and judging by his tweets he does come off as legitimate) then this is something Malaysian Airlines may not have had a say in.

Also: again I'll preface this, you can take this with a grain of salt if you like, a Russian twitter account (a blogging platform of some sort) posted this tweet on the 13th.



It talks about some "info"/rumour, that "Kolomoiskiy is planning to have a surprise for Poroshenko. As per info: Something with planes." Very creepy in any case, Kolomoiskiy is one of, if not the most influential oligarch in Ukraine.
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Old 07-18-2014, 12:46 AM   #35
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What about this? As always I don't know enough about the situation, but this is pretty damning of MA.

MH17: Malaysia Airlines responsible for Ukraine plane crash | Crikey

Obviously the outrage should be directed at the people who shot the fucking thing down, but if MA changed the flight route to go over a warzone to save fuel...
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Old 07-18-2014, 12:55 AM   #36
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If that's true, then I'd have to really to reconsider my earlier judgment that MA were the least deserving of the blame. That's bad, that's bloody reckless and in no way a good idea no matter the situation. That would explain a lot about why the flight path was changed so drastically, at least.

There's still a lot to find out about the reports of Ukrainian fighter jets following/'chasing' the plane up until the plane disappeared off the radar though.
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:05 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2 View Post
The plane was reportedly 10km above the ground, from what I understand the rebels only have weapons/equipment that can reach up to 3km.
AP journalists reported seeing Buk launchers (of the variety that can shoot down planes flying at 72,000 feet, twice the altitude of this plane) behind rebel lines a day before the attack.
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:11 AM   #38
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Yeah, I heard about that, a Guardian journalist asked the rebels about those launchers and they responded that they were under repair at the time that the plane was struck down.
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:11 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobl04 View Post
What about this? As always I don't know enough about the situation, but this is pretty damning of MA.

MH17: Malaysia Airlines responsible for Ukraine plane crash | Crikey

Obviously the outrage should be directed at the people who shot the fucking thing down, but if MA changed the flight route to go over a warzone to save fuel...
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Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2 View Post
If that's true, then I'd have to really to reconsider my earlier judgment that MA were the least deserving of the blame. That's bad, that's bloody reckless and in no way a good idea no matter the situation. That would explain a lot about why the flight path was changed so drastically, at least.
Given it was the European air traffic control who declared the flight path safe, can we really blame Malaysian Airlines for using it?
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Old 07-18-2014, 02:29 AM   #40
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On the topic of flying over (or avoiding) Ukraine, here are some interesting maps of which airlines did and did not: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2....html#diverted

British Airways, Air France, and one Thai Airways flight in the last week avoided Ukraine. KLM, Malaysia Airlines, Lufthansa, and the rest of the Thai Airways flights flew over Ukraine.
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