LemonMelon said:
Do hippies fit anywhere into this theory?
If you want to stretch it back earlier than the 1990s.
LemonMelon said:
Do hippies fit anywhere into this theory?
Axver said:
Depends what you're looking for in a leader, really. Anybody who thinks Obama and Ron Paul aren't inextricably tied to the system is deluding themselves.
Axver said:So, on a different note, I'm re-listening to Bowie's Station To Station as I don't really know how I'd rank its songs beyond the title track at #1, and I'd like to keep voting on Survivor.
Axver said:
Depends what you're looking for in a leader, really. Anybody who thinks Obama and Ron Paul aren't inextricably tied to the system is deluding themselves.
Personally, I don't care if someone's inside or outside the system, just as long as they have long-term vision. My political hero is Julius Vogel. My admiration for the man is considerable.
LemonMelon said:
Screwy isn't wrong, people do want a leader, but you are definitely correct on this point. Particularly Obama. I support him, but I realize he's not really that much different than any other politician that's come down the pipe in the last 20 years.
Axver said:So, on a different note, I'm re-listening to Bowie's Station To Station as I don't really know how I'd rank its songs beyond the title track at #1, and I'd like to keep voting on Survivor.
coolian2 said:
Just keep voting for Station to Station because it's the one you know.
Axver said:
It won the first round. So now I've no idea what to vote for since it's gone.
Axver said:
Yeah, he just has a charismatic edge.
But this is getting away from what we were originally talking about, and in a way it's exactly what I was saying. Protest movements are ignored or ridiculed. People just want to chug along inside the system. They don't want to rally around a movement of activists; they'll flock around a candidate for President and do little more than vote.
Axver said:
Yeah, he just has a charismatic edge.
But this is getting away from what we were originally talking about, and in a way it's exactly what I was saying. Protest movements are ignored or ridiculed. People just want to chug along inside the system. They don't want to rally around a movement of activists; they'll flock around a candidate for President and do little more than vote.
Screwtape2 said:
We are all part of the system. I think Obama and Ron Paul are men of ideas. We need more of that.
I agree that long term vision is the goal. Look at Ghandi or MLK. They had long term visions and brought about a revolution. I don't know who Julius Vogel is so educate me.
There is someone out there hiding in the shadows who will be the voice of this generation. They just aren't being heard.
Axver said:
Yeah, he just has a charismatic edge.
But this is getting away from what we were originally talking about, and in a way it's exactly what I was saying. Protest movements are ignored or ridiculed. People just want to chug along inside the system. They don't want to rally around a movement of activists; they'll flock around a candidate for President and do little more than vote.
Screwtape2 said:
You don't have enough faith in what a single voice of thousands is capable of. People live outside the system and constantly mould it. They will become sculpters with the right voice leading them.
Screwtape2 said:
You don't have enough faith in what a single voice of thousands is capable of. People live outside the system and constantly mould it. They will become sculpters with the right voice leading them.
coolian2 said:
Why haven't we seen it?
Time and time again many things worth protesting pass us right by with no cohesive group effort.
coolian2 said:
Is it because so many protest movements and leaders of them seem to fly off the handle often - they make a concerted effort to appear mis-informed and quick to ignore anything else.
LemonMelon said:
They certainly could have that effect, but they don't because they're simply not interested enough. The discussion here is why that is and what could be done to turn it around. People aren't as extroverted as they once were, and it's showing up in politics.
LemonMelon said:
And, sadly, I think you're absolutely right. At least, based on recent evidence.
But let's face it, there hasn't really been any widespread movements that had the potential to cause a revolution since the 1960's. Sure, a few protests pop up now and again, but the sense of urgency has been dulled. Why? Well, we did discuss that for a minute there.
Screwtape2 said:
You are wrong. People can have an effect but they need a champion. I think the assumption that people aren't interested is simply wrong.
coolian2 said:It's actually interesting that there's an increasing backlash against Greenpeace too - or at least at my uni.
LemonMelon said:
You certainly have a point. But here's another question I have to pose to you: why aren't there any champions around? They are people too, obviously. Why aren't people stepping up and making themselves known, and making these issues known?
Axver said:
I can't say I've even seen Greenpeace or any similar movements even ACTIVE. The Socialist Alternative is the one that seems to get out there the most at Melbourne Uni - and accordingly it's the butt of a lot of my comments, despite the fact that I support them to an extent.
Screwtape2 said:
It all about responsibility. No one chooses to be a leader of something great than themselves. Like I said it just lands in your lap. Many simply don't take on the responsibility, many don't have their voices heard but they are out there. You have to breath life into the idea of revolution in the minds of young people. The real heroes never wanted to be heroes, they just accepted the responsibility.