U2's odd stance on the War album.

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Overplayed because it's a shitty song that would've been cool to hear live once or twice. Not every frickin' night.

Elevation is a great song. Stuck has been *knockonwood* mostly neglected the past two legs and Walk On had an obvious reason in the set.

So to compare IALW with Elevation.... yeah. That's farfetched scifi babble.
 
Overplayed because it's a shitty song that would've been cool to hear live once or twice. Not every frickin' night.

see, i'm not trying to get into an argument here, but this is the thing: you're not seeing the band every night. you're likely going to hear it once or twice.

that could be what U2 are thinking - hey, this will be a treat for a lot of the audience to hear once - and the majority of them are probably only going to one, maybe two concerts.

they shouldn't produce setlists for people like us who sit here and analyze the setlists on a daily basis :wink: I feel like they have been trying to throw the hardcore nuts some treats - your blue room, boy falls from the sky, mercy, every breaking wave, unforgettable fire, ultraviolet.

:shrug:
 
Once or twice? That wouldn't be too bad. I heard it 7 times already. And I'm sick of it. I don't over analyze things because of setlists on the internet. I use my own experience, and that is that everyone around me did not care for IALW at all. The guy next to me also hated it. It wasn't his only show either.
 
Everyone around you - and the guy sitting next to you - is such a small sample size.

as I said, I highly doubt U2 are making their setlist expecting to play to people who are seeing 5+ shows on a tour.
 
Nice change of argumentation going on there. You gave me a nice argument, I prove you wrong, and you break up your own argument right away and change it to a new one.

Ah well, enjoy your IALW. I'm tired of this constant discussion.
 
My argument didn't change.

hardcore nuts like us = seeing U2 multiple times on the same tour, discussing the setlist.

you say you're not overanalyzing it, you cite the people around you at the seven concerts. That sort of proves my point - you and I have seen U2 many times on this tour and probably many times in general (don't know if you saw them previously).

the guy next to you at a given concert and the people near you in your concert is a small sample size - that's all i'm saying. my argument has stayed the same.

for what it's worth, I'd like to see In a little while rotated. I think it's a good song, and if it were up to me, i'd rotate it with Original of the Species or something along those lines. but obviously U2 think in a little while fits better, and probably because of the space theme - which is why they've played it so much. so :shrug: it doesn't bug me that they play it every night if they feel that it fits with the theme of the tour - giving the show they want to give to the audience that likely is seeing them once or twice on the tour.

but you're right, it's a pointless argument.
 
U2 should drop Elevation and replace it with Red Light. The "da-da-da" part can be sung by an army of prostitutes picked up off of street corners in whatever city they're playing in, walking around the inner circle.
 
Overplayed because it's a shitty song

Nice change of argumentation going on there. You gave me a nice argument, I prove you wrong, and you break up your own argument right away and change it to a new one.

Ah well, enjoy your IALW. I'm tired of this constant discussion.

Wow.

I hate to bring this up, and it's at the great risk of looking like an asshole, but isn't this the same kind of thing that you've gone out of your way to call me out for?

Trying to "prove people wrong" based on my subjective opinion passed off as more important than others?

I mean, how is IALW a shitty song?(Don't have to answer obviously, but you just say it like you can use it as a building block for an argument)

Regardless of whether it belongs in the set and what you think of that, do you realize almost NO U2 fan would agree that IALW is a shitty song in any way?

Either you're being hypocritical or more likely, you have nothing at all against this kind of statement, but rather a problem with people suggesting that more War songs be played.

If you're in a glass house, don't throw a stone at me.......

I think we were having a nice discussion before people started jumping on me for suggesting they give Elevation a rest........

The bottom line of this entire thread:

-War is a classic U2 album, the album that made them famous, and will be a classic in rock history.

-War songs went off incredibly well live.

-It's about time they start playing 1 or 2 more of them on occasion, seeing as they've dug up good amounts of Boy, TUF, R&H, AB and even Passengers on recent tours.
 
Well, of them got dropped quickly, and the other is still a regular. :shrug:

U2 still play IALW every night. It must be good then.

Epic argument. Even the band have some shitty ideas sometimes.
yeah, i mean by the same token acrobat must be awful because it's never been played live?

On DVD it looks like the crowd liked it enough. YBR by most acounts was a massive beer break song. Much like MS on Vertigo tour.
your argument is so flawed it's ridiculous. first of all, you never heard the song live so you can't be the best judge of it since apparently all that determines whether a song is good or bad is how the crowd reacts. i mean, really? so if bono forgets several lines of a song (and i mean truly forgets, not just passes the microphone over to the crowd or anything), edge misses a note, and larry drops a drumstick, yet the crowd goes wild then it was an amazing performance?

did you even see them during vertigo tour? because umm, the crowd enjoyed ms. they also enjoyed it when they did it on the two 360 shows i saw. if you're going to judge a song based on how the audience responded can you please just stick to shows you've actually seen?

besides, as u2387 just pointed out, this thread is about songs off the album war. if one wants to compare a song being played to a song off war that's fine of course, but this topic's got way too far off-topic to where it's just a discussion of other songs being played.
 
^^

This.

There were some really interesting pages of discussion about War and set lists.

Also, though this is not to be interpreted as an argument for keeping MS in the setlist, my experience was the exact same as Khandarhodes'. It went off quite well at the Vertigo show I saw, and by many accounts, was one of the highlights of the tour.
 
a song that would've been cool to hear live once or twice. Not every frickin' night.

That would cover a lot of U2 songs, then. Especially if, well, you see multiple shows.

elevation is a great song In what capacity ? Nothing special on record - in fact the most hated song on the album by a solid margin (while "shitty" IALW is one of the more popular songs), and while fun live, plenty of better material they could be playing. There is absolutely no reason for it being aroud for 3 tours in a row. Walk on lost it's excuse when Suu Kyi was released. As long as those two and Stuck keep marching along far more frequently, IALW is the least problematic of the ATYCLB material currently in rotation.

yeah, i mean by the same token acrobat must be awful because it's never been played live?

Songs never played before can not be compared to songs actually played live.

The overall crowd (not any single member of the audience) response is a big factor for U2, yes. Along with whether the song fits the theme of the show, and obviously, how the band feels about any given song.
I can still remember the reports on MS and YBR, from people that actually heard the song live. I also saw Youtube footage, and heard the song on bootlegs. That is enough to form an opinion. Since YBR was played for a very limited time in US only, there'd be virtually no debate at all if the "stick to what you've seen" rule is applied.
 
It escapes me how a slightly-lame acoustic number with the phrase "rocket ship" tacked onto it managed to become one of the highlights of 360. Annoying pop numbers worked so much better when Edge was singing over karaoke versions of them.

Yet another reason I'm sad Joey Ramone died: at least there would be some reason to keep playing the song.
 
while perhaps to most here still not an overly compelling reason, I think there is more to the lyrics of the song than just the phrase 'rocket ship'

A man dreams one day to fly
A man takes a rocket ship into the skies
He lives on a star that's dying in the night
And follows in the trail, the scatter of light
 
Talking about 360 tour:

Boy gets 1 song on a regular basis
October gets 0 (yeah Scarlet like 8 times)
War gets 3 max
TUF gets 3 max
TJT gets 3
R&H gets 2-3
AB gets 4
Zooropa gets a big fat 0
Pop gets a big fat 0
ATYCLB gets too many.... 5
HTDAAB gets 2
NLOTH gets 5-6 (now 4)

So basically, (and it's the 3rd tour in a row), ATYCLB is OVERPLAYED and this is a shame!
Zooropa and POP are not played at all, which is also a big shame (mostly for POP).
To me Boy and October are also underplayed....

All in all, add 1 Boy song, 2 October ones, 2 Pop, 1 Zooropa, take out 4 ATYCLB and 1 War and it's great! :D
 
Everyone said:
(arguments)
meh.ro3106.jpg
 
Why can't we all just agree that we are just a small majority of the U2 fanbase and that most of that fanbase aren't regulars on message boards that whine about how U2 isn't giving fair represntations of each album for their concerts. Now I will come out and say that I do think they should have a little more variety in their setlist, even though they already impressed me with bringing back The Unforgettable Fire and Ultraviolet (Light My Way) so i am happy for that, but you guys aren't looking at the whole picture. A lot of the casual fans probably don't know of a song like YBR or Zooropa or Acrobat, but they will probably know songs from All That You Can't Leave Behind because that was a very mainstream album, so the band needs to play to the crowd for the most part because casuals make up a bigger audience than hardcore fans, it's just the cold hard truth.
 
Yes, of course, but this thread is not about YBR, Zooropa and Acrobat, et al.

All That You Can't Leave Behind is not U2's only well known, mainstream album.

War was one as well. Along with Boy(at this point), TUF, JT, R&H, AB and HTDAAB.

30 years from now, War will be remembered a lot more than ATYCLB.
 
Yes, of course, but this thread is not about YBR, Zooropa and Acrobat, et al.

All That You Can't Leave Behind is not U2's only well known, mainstream album.

War was one as well. Along with Boy(at this point), TUF, JT, R&H, AB and HTDAAB.

30 years from now, War will be remembered a lot more than ATYCLB.

:up:

at least NYD and SBS will still be played in 50 years..... I doubt BD and Elevation will.....
 
Yes, of course, but this thread is not about YBR, Zooropa and Acrobat, et al.

All That You Can't Leave Behind is not U2's only well known, mainstream album.

War was one as well. Along with Boy(at this point), TUF, JT, R&H, AB and HTDAAB.

30 years from now, War will be remembered a lot more than ATYCLB.

Okay first off, I never said that the thread was about those songs. I was just using them as part of my argument that the hardcore fans want to hear these songs, but don't have the casuals in mind

Second, of all the albums you put up as mainstream, there are a couple I do disagree with. Boy was great within the underground audience, but was not anywhere near mainstream material and only got up the charts after the sucess of later albums. Rattle and Hum may have gotten to number one, but there were tons of people that were highly critical of it and the sales of that album just weren't as strong as the mainstream Joshua Tree


Also, I do believe that BD might be alongside SBS and NYD 50 years too. And I don't say it because I love the song, I'm just being realistic. BD was just as sucessful as them and I don't see the song dissappearing anytime soon.
 
Okay first off, I never said that the thread was about those songs. I was just using them as part of my argument that the hardcore fans want to hear these songs, but don't have the casuals in mind

Second, of all the albums you put up as mainstream, there are a couple I do disagree with. Boy was great within the underground audience, but was not anywhere near mainstream material and only got up the charts after the sucess of later albums. Rattle and Hum may have gotten to number one, but there were tons of people that were highly critical of it and the sales of that album just weren't as strong as the mainstream Joshua Tree


Also, I do believe that BD might be alongside SBS and NYD 50 years too. And I don't say it because I love the song, I'm just being realistic. BD was just as sucessful as them and I don't see the song dissappearing anytime soon.

1.)I never said that's what you said. You talked about hardcore versus casuals, I simply pointed out how, in the original topic of the thread(and what the 1st 7 pages were devoted to), we were talking about a well known, mainstream album. Well within casual fan territory. That's all. Wasn't accusing you- you were only responding to people who brought up songs like YBR and Acrobat.

2.)"Got up the charts after the success of later albums."

I'm quite well aware of that, which is why I put "later years" in parenthesis. Boy is definitely mainstream nowadays, it rates on almost every list of best debut albums and even on some lists of best albums ever.

While you very well could be right in saying that BD will be remembered as well as NYD and SBS, I was talking about the albums as a whole. The War era is so iconic, not just for the songs, but for the symbolism. The rise of U2 from underground band to fame, Red Rocks, the white flag, MTV music videos. It's the image almost every older person thinks of when they see U2. These are iconic moments in rock history, representing the time when the "rock and roll torch" was passed to U2. It will be tough for ATYCLB to compete with the era that put the band who would dominate the next 2+ decades on the map, seeing as the history books are usually only written with the highlights.

As for Rattle and Hum, so what? You're comparing it to JT, one of the best selling albums of all time, and calling it "not mainstream" because it didn't match those numbers? Who cares if the critics gave it a lukewarm reception, it still went to #1 as you point out. And it had worldwide hits that are still well known today- Angel of Harlem and Desire. All I Want Is You was also a reasonable sized hit and is well known, too.

Boy may be debatable, but to call R&H not mainstream is really, really stretching it.
 
Other thoughts:

Does anyone actually believe for a minute that U2 would allow a negative crowd reaction to make it on a DVD?! :lol: (see: Boston) I'm firmly in the "IALW can take a long if not permanent" break camp. I actually like it more on the album, as one of the things I like most about it is the funky almost hip hop-ish drum track. They don't do that live, so it just becomes another acoustic number and frankly I want less of those in a stadium, not more.

BD will be remembered as much if not even more than NYD 50 years from now. Not more than SBS, however. I don't agree necessarily, but I wouldn't allow my own opinion of which is a better song to prevent me from acknowledging that there is a whole generation of U2 fans (and likely some of the older ones too) who will remember BD as much if not more fondly as "their song" than NYD. The two songs are like, what, 20 years apart? (give or take)
 
I think you're both a little out of touch. BD will most definitely be played alongside NYD 50 years from now.

Leave my quote out of it!

I said as much very clearly. I was talking about the albums as a whole.

BD will be remembered as much if not even more than NYD 50 years from now. Not more than SBS, however. I don't agree necessarily, but I wouldn't allow my own opinion of which is a better song to prevent me from acknowledging that there is a whole generation of U2 fans (and likely some of the older ones too) who will remember BD as much if not more fondly as "their song" than NYD. The two songs are like, what, 20 years apart? (give or take)

It's strange. I always kind of tolerated BD. Liked it, didn't love it, never "got it." But I always acknowledged it- I am 23 years old so I know very well from talking to people in my age group that BD was the start of U2 for so many. I hear from people of all ages who will talk about the old stuff but then say "I like U2 now more than I ever have, you know, BD really resonated with me."

Well, anyways, about a year ago, maybe a little more, this song all of a sudden hit me! Like a ton of bricks. I now absolutely love it and perfectly understand why others speak so highly of it.

Again, even before this "epiphany" of sorts, I always acknowledged the significance of BD as the song that got U2 a hearing with a whole new generation and successfully re claimed the "biggest band in the world" title for them.

I think my constant complaining about ATYCLB dominating set lists gives off the wrong impression sometimes. I love the album. I think BD, Kite, Walk On and IALW are top tier U2 songs. I always make very clear when I complain that BD realistically is not going anywhere nor would I want it to.
 
Leave my quote out of it!

I said as much very clearly. I was talking about the albums as a whole.

But I don't think that's a fair assesment either. I think ATYCLB will be remembered just as much if not more than War.

Who knows how history will treat U2 songs, it's really hard to tell but if I had to guess it would go something like this:

I think a song like NYD will still be played and considered a classic song, but I think SBS might lose it's relevance. The iconic drumbeat might keep it alive but I think like many Vietnam songs the lyric might make the song forgettable. I don't think it has the ability like NYD to take on another meaning by the audience.

But BD, Streets, Pride, WOWY these songs will last the test of time.
 
But I don't think that's a fair assesment either. I think ATYCLB will be remembered just as much if not more than War.

Not much of a chance of this.

It will be remembered for sure, and deserves to be, but not to the level of War.

Who knows how history will treat U2 songs, it's really hard to tell but if I had to guess it would go something like this:

I think a song like NYD will still be played and considered a classic song, but I think SBS might lose it's relevance. The iconic drumbeat might keep it alive but I think like many Vietnam songs the lyric might make the song forgettable. I don't think it has the ability like NYD to take on another meaning by the audience.

But BD, Streets, Pride, WOWY these songs will last the test of time.

SBS and NYD are both very event specific as originally written. However, both have taken on many different meanings throughout the years, SBS as much or more than NYD.

Even if you couldn't give another meaning to a song like that, "Ohio" by CSNY(and others) show that it doesn't mean the song will necessarily go away.
 
Not much of a chance of this.

It will be remembered for sure, and deserves to be, but not to the level of War.



SBS and NYD are both very event specific as originally written. However, both have taken on many different meanings throughout the years, SBS as much or more than NYD.

Even if you couldn't give another meaning to a song like that, "Ohio" by CSNY(and others) show that it doesn't mean the song will necessarily go away.

Come on, let's get real here. Your average listener does not know what NYD is written about, it's written in a way that many can take on their own meaning(it's just a love song to many), SBS not so much.

I find that War is my least listened to U2 album, I find it to be incredibly dated. I have almost since the day I became a U2 fan back in the late 80's.

Are you trying to tell me you hear 'Ohio' still played on the radio where you live? I have a classic rock station that plays a lot of CSNY and I've never heard that song played on the radio. I wouldn't have even known the song except that I roomed with a guy in college that was obsessed with them.
 
Come on, let's get real here. Your average listener does not know what NYD is written about, it's written in a way that many can take on their own meaning(it's just a love song to many), SBS not so much.

I find that War is my least listened to U2 album, I find it to be incredibly dated. I have almost since the day I became a U2 fan back in the late 80's.

Are you trying to tell me you hear 'Ohio' still played on the radio where you live? I have a classic rock station that plays a lot of CSNY and I've never heard that song played on the radio. I wouldn't have even known the song except that I roomed with a guy in college that was obsessed with them.

A bit of advice:

Try and hide your bias and how it is influencing you a bit more. You don't like War that much, ok, good for you.

But it's obviously influencing what you are saying here, because I highly doubt you'll get too much agreement anywhere(U2 fan or rock industry in general) with your prediction that ATYCLB will be remembered more.

Younger people generally are as clueless as to the event that inspired SBS as they are NYD. They just know it's an iconic song written by U2.

Like I said, SBS has already been adapted many times and taken on many different meanings. It's a condemnation of a black and white, blind wave- the -flag and count the bodies way of dealing with problems in the world.

SBS is not some little niche protest song and if you think it is, you are the one who needs to get real.

I hear "Ohio" played plenty on the radio, same with many other Vietnam era songs that are a lot more event/time specific than SBS.

I don't even know why I am answering your "Ohio" question, because it's not even like you have a strong argument there. Since when does event specific mean it won't be remembered????? By that standard, the Star Spangled Banner should have faded into obscurity 100 years ago, same with all the classical numbers honoring kings and queens and other luminaries that are still played in music halls and done by composers the world over. Hell, what about Fortunate Son by CCR??? That's still around, still resonates, hell, U2 even covered it!

Fortunate Son, like SBS, like many other well written, passionate reactions to circumstances at a specific time, sends such a timely and powerful message and speaks to the broader human realities and consequences of a situation. It's these broader realities that persist beyond the specific time of the inspiring event, and the songs stay around because they speak to them so well.

See?

One more test if you don't like what I wrote above:

Go down the street in your city and stop people. Ask them if they know what SBS was written about, the specific event. 1/10 will know if you are lucky.(many will say Easter Rising, many will say some IRA bombing, most will give you a blank stare)

None of us has a crystal ball, obviously, but looking at U2's career so far and popular/critical reaction to different parts of it, War is far more likely to come out ahead of ATYCLB than behind it when the books are written.
 
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