The List Is Bigger Than Anything In Its Way - All GA Line Drama Discussions Here

[cbradfly1]

I wonder what kind of BS they tell these people at the venues? If I am head of security at Bridgestone arena and someone calls me telling me they are a U2 “line leader” I am laughing them off the phone. They must rep themselves as affliated with the band.

 

[bono_212]

I think it really speaks to the UNHEALTHY obsession that people have. Been up front for TONS of shows already, but stomp their feet and are completely upset about a potential lottery where people who have never been up there before are there instead? Selfish assholes - give someone else a chance you complete dicks. There are a lot of massive U2 fans in this world, and not all of them are fucked in the head.

I'd love a lottery

 

[nathan1977]

Or you just show up at the damn venue when they tell you to, and you get in a damn line and write a damn number on your wrist like a damn adult.

 

[nbelcik]

One would imagine that the group to be called would be guest services and not security... although I suppose if the venue were on private property behind a fence and not in the middle of a city block like MSG or Capital One that security would have to be called.

I know about the Phoenix discussions because I was there. Nate worked hard with the venue to be able to line up at the venue. Nate does not want lines to form offsite (although oftentimes line runners who don't know what they're doing aren't able to secure a spot onsite and sometimes venues are just simply uncooperative and no amount of persuading will work). He thinks that offsite lines are more unfair (even if they're well advertised on social media) and that if a random person is walking around the venue they should be able to see the line. I know because I stayed with Nate in Phoenix last tour and was privy to many conversations in the days leading up to the show. Setting the line up on venue grounds required a lot of relationship building with the venue before the show. But so many people here seem to think it's just a dude showing up with a marker (which is what was happening in Chicago this tour before people who knew what they were doing stepped in).

 

[nbelcik]

Not only do I have a bridge, but the river that runs underneath it, I’ll give you a two for one deal. Act now, or you’ll regret it.

Once again, I've been privy to a lot of line drama the past two tours and the closest I've seen to someone being put on a list without being there are spots being held for people that agree to do shifts. But even then those people still show up and then are asked to do a shift. I've never seen someone be put on a list without being there in person. I've seen people want to do it but then were talked out of it by people like Nate and Naomi. I'm sure it happened on 360 when the list system was in its infancy, but I haven't heard of it happening the last two tours at least.

 

[nbelcik]

I think it really speaks to the UNHEALTHY obsession that people have. Been up front for TONS of shows already, but stomp their feet and are completely upset about a potential lottery where people who have never been up there before are there instead? Selfish assholes - give someone else a chance you complete dicks. There are a lot of massive U2 fans in this world, and not all of them are fucked in the head.

What about the fan who wants to be up close for the one show they do and is willing to put in time to be up close? A lottery would screw those casual fans over. On 360 and IE I saw one show each from GA and I wanted to be upfront, so I figured out how to be upfront. I did my research about the line system (Joe Ahorro wrote a really great guide to the GA queue). If someone wants to be close to the band and see the show from the rail I don't think that's an unhealthy obsession.

 

[EdgeFest]

What about the fan who wants to be up close for the one show they do and is willing to put in time to be up close? A lottery would screw those casual fans over. On 360 and IE I saw one show each from GA and I wanted to be upfront, so I figured out how to be upfront. I did my research about the line system (Joe Ahorro wrote a really great guide to the GA queue). If someone wants to be close to the band and see the show from the rail I don't think that's an unhealthy obsession.

Once or twice, sure. But every single show they attend on every tour? You know there are a bunch of those people out there, and they definitely have a problem - and I’ve seen enough of them have breakdowns if they don’t get on the rail in whatever spot they believe they are entitled to at ALL costs. It can’t be called anything BUT an obsession. I love how anyone who wants to be “up close for one show” is a “casual” fan. Because unless you’re an obsessive maniac you can’t possibly be anything but a “casual fan”. Sigh...

 

[EdgeFest]

Oh, and “Spots held for people who agree to do shifts” and “I’ve never seen anyone put on a list who isn’t there in person”. Which one is it? It surely can’t be both...

 

[kabigon]

How long before someone from U2 reads all this shit, decides it's all too difficult and says we're back to seats on the arena for the next tour

 

[nathan1977]

What about the fan who wants to be up close for the one show they do and is willing to put in time to be up close? A lottery would screw those casual fans over.

You mean like the 2005 lottery system run by the band to gain access to the ellipsis? The system was specifically designed by the band to avoid what happened on the Elevation tour, where the same 20 fans showed up at every show. While it annoyed some people, I think most people got it. It was fair, and it honored the idea of trying to make “access” equitable. (They didn’t do it in 2009-2011 because in a stadium tour, with thousands of people in the circle, you’d notice the same small number of fans much less.)

 

[Axver]

Yeah, I loved the lottery. I was, admittedly, fortunate enough to get in the ellipse at two out of two shows, but if I had missed out I still would have got a pretty damn good spot.

I know about the Phoenix discussions because I was there. Nate worked hard with the venue to be able to line up at the venue. Nate does not want lines to form offsite (although oftentimes line runners who don't know what they're doing aren't able to secure a spot onsite and sometimes venues are just simply uncooperative and no amount of persuading will work). He thinks that offsite lines are more unfair (even if they're well advertised on social media) and that if a random person is walking around the venue they should be able to see the line. I know because I stayed with Nate in Phoenix last tour and was privy to many conversations in the days leading up to the show. Setting the line up on venue grounds required a lot of relationship building with the venue before the show. But so many people here seem to think it's just a dude showing up with a marker (which is what was happening in Chicago this tour before people who knew what they were doing stepped in).

Why the hell does this guy need you to stand up for him when he himself just comes here to throw a couple of cheap drive-by insults and not address a single substantive issue? It speaks poorly of his character.

And as for the underlined part, all I've seen on social media is that some megafan showed up days ahead of the gig to start the line, and got a response of "we stepped in to help him" from line runners who had suddenly found themselves behind a guy prepared to start the line before they did. Surely you can see how condescending that is? The guy's putting in the hard yards, doesn't sound like he needs any "help".

Now, maybe there's more to it, because I don't really care to follow this petty drama, but the bits I've seen doing the rounds are a bad look.

 

[d.darroch]

What about the fan who wants to be up close for the one show they do and is willing to put in time to be up close? A lottery would screw those casual fans over. On 360 and IE I saw one show each from GA and I wanted to be upfront, so I figured out how to be upfront. I did my research about the line system (Joe Ahorro wrote a really great guide to the GA queue). If someone wants to be close to the band and see the show from the rail I don't think that's an unhealthy obsession.

But are these “line leaders” really putting in the time? With the check-in system there’s really not much time put in at all. What, the first 20 people have to do a shift! Big deal, an hour or two a day.

If the venue allows it, put in the time! Camp out (I spent a cold night camped out for Vancouver’s 360). I guarantee that all these same faces wouldn’t be right at the front of the line for every show if they were expected to stay there, in line, overnight, day after day. Especially for back to back shows. But turn up for an hour or two a day, sure.

Obviously this can’t be done when the venue doesn’t allow camping. But the check-in system isn’t “putting your time in”. So why do these guys deserve to be at the front again? Get there as early as the venue will allow you. If this will create carnage with 100’s of people turning up at at 9AM, have a lottery at this time. Then stay in line!

ps. Joe’s an awesome guy. Always polite, helpful & never condescending Others, not so much.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I know about the Phoenix discussions because I was there. Nate worked hard with the venue to be able to line up at the venue. Nate does not want lines to form offsite (although oftentimes line runners who don't know what they're doing aren't able to secure a spot onsite and sometimes venues are just simply uncooperative and no amount of persuading will work). He thinks that offsite lines are more unfair (even if they're well advertised on social media) and that if a random person is walking around the venue they should be able to see the line. I know because I stayed with Nate in Phoenix last tour and was privy to many conversations in the days leading up to the show. Setting the line up on venue grounds required a lot of relationship building with the venue before the show. But so many people here seem to think it's just a dude showing up with a marker (which is what was happening in Chicago this tour before people who knew what they were doing stepped in).

Okay so let's tackle the elephant who doesn't stay in the room.

This is about more than just Nate. I know he has become the symbol of this whole disagreement, but this is about the bigger picture and not just him. It certainly sounds like from you that he puts in a lot of work that, frankly, he shouldn't have to if the band's management would step up to the plate. I applaud him for that much.

That being said... when he tells any fan who's confused and upset that the publicly issued rules don't matter and that "perhaps they'd be better off in seats"; when he responds to rules issued by official venue social accounts with obnoxious dismissiveness; when he pops in here to take a few shots and runs off before even answering any actual, legitimate concerns being discussed?

Yea. That's a bad look, and it's going to make anyone who isn't on board with this system hate him. Perhaps he doesn't care, but if he probably should. Have him come back and actually talk about this stuff. It'll go a long way.


Now that this is out of the way... sure, there's more to a GA check in list than a guy with a marker, but let's not make this out to be some complicated matter that couldn't be handled by most people; whether they did their "homework" and called Joe Bagadonuts at venue security or not.


A side note that isn't necessarily related to what you said or to Nate... but the next person who tries to explain away the GA check in list as a necessity because of security concerns should have their tickets taken away and handed to someone who can't afford them and told not to come back.

Thanks.

I like this. This is like the Trump Kim peace talks, only with slightly less crazy.

 

[bono_212]

I know about the Phoenix discussions because I was there. Nate worked hard with the venue to be able to line up at the venue. Nate does not want lines to form offsite (although oftentimes line runners who don't know what they're doing aren't able to secure a spot onsite and sometimes venues are just simply uncooperative and no amount of persuading will work). He thinks that offsite lines are more unfair (even if they're well advertised on social media) and that if a random person is walking around the venue they should be able to see the line. I know because I stayed with Nate in Phoenix last tour and was privy to many conversations in the days leading up to the show. Setting the line up on venue grounds required a lot of relationship building with the venue before the show. But so many people here seem to think it's just a dude showing up with a marker (which is what was happening in Chicago this tour before people who knew what they were doing stepped in).

The locations of the lines are in private closed Facebook groups. I didn't even get added to the LA one until after night 2's line had already started.

 

[Hewson]

The locations of the lines are in private closed Facebook groups. I didn't even get added to the LA one until after night 2's line had already started.

Perhaps you need to shack up with Nate.

 

[nbelcik]

Once or twice, sure. But every single show they attend on every tour? You know there are a bunch of those people out there, and they definitely have a problem - and I’ve seen enough of them have breakdowns if they don’t get on the rail in whatever spot they believe they are entitled to at ALL costs. It can’t be called anything BUT an obsession. I love how anyone who wants to be “up close for one show” is a “casual” fan. Because unless you’re an obsessive maniac you can’t possibly be anything but a “casual fan”. Sigh...

lol I've never seen anyone have a breakdown because they didn't get rail. Once again, you're making things up.

And for the shift thing, the people are there in person, are asked to do a shift and if they agree to do a shift they get put in the top 20. It's not remotely the same as someone being put on the list while in a different city.

 

[nbelcik]

Yeah, I loved the lottery. I was, admittedly, fortunate enough to get in the ellipse at two out of two shows, but if I had missed out I still would have got a pretty damn good spot.







Why the hell does this guy need you to stand up for him when he himself just comes here to throw a couple of cheap drive-by insults and not address a single substantive issue? It speaks poorly of his character.



And as for the underlined part, all I've seen on social media is that some megafan showed up days ahead of the gig to start the line, and got a response of "we stepped in to help him" from line runners who had suddenly found themselves behind a guy prepared to start the line before they did. Surely you can see how condescending that is? The guy's putting in the hard yards, doesn't sound like he needs any "help".



Now, maybe there's more to it, because I don't really care to follow this petty drama, but the bits I've seen doing the rounds are a bad look.

The Vertigo lottery system was different from Springsteen's. You'd still have a good spot even if you didn't get scanned into the ellipse.

It's kind of hard for Nate to have a rational discussion with people in an echo chamber who constantly insult him. Y'all essentially trolled him so he's going to troll you back.

The guy who started the Chicago line literally posted that someone needed to bring a marker because he forgot his. He had no idea that he needed to work with security and thought that he had to be there 24 hours a day. He was not prepared at all. The line runners who arrived after he started the line have been helping him out and giving him advice and he still has his number 1 spot.

 

[nbelcik]

But are these “line leaders” really putting in the time? With the check-in system there’s really not much time put in at all. What, the first 20 people have to do a shift! Big deal, an hour or two a day.

If the venue allows it, put in the time! Camp out (I spent a cold night camped out for Vancouver’s 360). I guarantee that all these same faces wouldn’t be right at the front of the line for every show if they were expected to stay there, in line, overnight, day after day. Especially for back to back shows. But turn up for an hour or two a day, sure.

Obviously this can’t be done when the venue doesn’t allow camping. But the check-in system isn’t “putting your time in”. So why do these guys deserve to be at the front again? Get there as early as the venue will allow you. If this will create carnage with 100’s of people turning up at at 9AM, have a lottery at this time. Then stay in line!

ps. Joe’s an awesome guy. Always polite, helpful & never condescending Others, not so much.

Many of the line leaders would actually like to go back to camping. If you think that allowing camping would prevent the same people from being front row every show you're incredibly naive. Not to mention the fact that venues will not allow camping on their grounds due to liability and safety reasons. Those days are over.

 

[nbelcik]

The locations of the lines are in private closed Facebook groups. I didn't even get added to the LA one until after night 2's line had already started.

You could've walked around the Forum and seen the line pretty easily. It was on a public sidewalk next to the venue. It's not like people are trying to hide the line, almost all line runners want the list in an easily visible location.

 

[bono_212]

You could've walked around the Forum and seen the line pretty easily. It was on a public sidewalk next to the venue. It's not like people are trying to hide the line, almost all line runners want the list in an easily visible location.

How was I supposed to know when it started? Was I meant to go do a lap at the forum every few hours for four days before the show until I found the line starters? Since I'm clearly not allowed to start the line myself.

You ever tried to drive down to Inglewood? It's not fun.

 

[nbelcik]

Okay so let's tackle the elephant who doesn't stay in the room.

This is about more than just Nate. I know he has become the symbol of this whole disagreement, but this is about the bigger picture and not just him. It certainly sounds like from you that he puts in a lot of work that, frankly, he shouldn't have to if the band's management would step up to the plate. I applaud him for that much.

That being said... when he tells any fan who's confused and upset that the publicly issued rules don't matter and that "perhaps they'd be better off in seats"; when he responds to rules issued by official venue social accounts with obnoxious dismissiveness; when he pops in here to take a few shots and runs off before even answering any actual, legitimate concerns being discussed?

Yea. That's a bad look, and it's going to make anyone who isn't on board with this system hate him. Perhaps he doesn't care, but if he probably should. Have him come back and actually talk about this stuff. It'll go a long way.


Now that this is out of the way... sure, there's more to a GA check in list than a guy with a marker, but let's not make this out to be some complicated matter that couldn't be handled by most people; whether they did their "homework" and called Joe Bagadonuts at venue security or not.


A side note that isn't necessarily related to what you said or to Nate... but the next person who tries to explain away the GA check in list as a necessity because of security concerns should have their tickets taken away and handed to someone who can't afford them and told not to come back.

Thanks.

I like this. This is like the Trump Kim peace talks, only with slightly less crazy.

It should be clear by now that Nate is right when he states that the venue rules don't matter. U2's team always makes the venue follow the list. People who think the list isn't going to be followed are naive. There's a reason why Nate will tell people that if they don't like the system they'll be more comfortable in seats. The check-in system is how the line is run and U2's team is on board. Also, it's kind of difficult to have a rational discussion who lie about him, insult him, and accuse him of doing things he hasn't done. You're right, Nate has become the symbol of the list, which is why when things like the list being kept a half a mile away from the venue happen, Nate gets blamed even if he had nothing to do with that. Meanwhile, when Nate actually steps up and creates a very good, transparent list, like in Phoenix, it gets ignored. It's a lose-lose situation for him.

Believe me, it actually does take skill to run a line. You have to be able to talk to security the right way, be firm on rules even if that upsets people, be able to communicate with people, and have good persuasion skills to ensure that the line happens on property. I've seen examples of lines that were run by unprepared people and in some cases (Seattle last tour) we were in a potentially dangerous situation. Line running isn't putting a number 1 on your hand and handling a notebook.

 

[bono_212]

It should be clear by now that Nate is right when he states that the venue rules don't matter. U2's team always makes the venue follow the list. People who think the list isn't going to be followed are naive. There's a reason why Nate will tell people that if they don't like the system they'll be more comfortable in seats. The check-in system is how the line is run and U2's team is on board. Also, it's kind of difficult to have a rational discussion who lie about him, insult him, and accuse him of doing things he hasn't done. You're right, Nate has become the symbol of the list, which is why when things like the list being kept a half a mile away from the venue happen, Nate gets blamed even if he had nothing to do with that. Meanwhile, when Nate actually steps up and creates a very good, transparent list, like in Phoenix, it gets ignored. It's a lose-lose situation for him.

Believe me, it actually does take skill to run a line. You have to be able to talk to security the right way, be firm on rules even if that upsets people, be able to communicate with people, and have good persuasion skills to ensure that the line happens on property. I've seen examples of lines that were run by unprepared people and in some cases (Seattle last tour) we were in a potentially dangerous situation. Line running isn't putting a number 1 on your hand and handling a notebook.

Then listen to the basic premise of what all of us our asking: use this power to communicate with the band's people and have them run the line, not the fans. An official communication about when the line is starting and how it's going to be run is all we want, for the most part.

 

[nbelcik]

How was I supposed to know when it started? Was I meant to go do a lap at the forum every few hours for four days before the show until I found the line starters? Since I'm clearly not allowed to start the line myself.

You ever tried to drive down to Inglewood? It's not fun.

Do what people did in the days before social media. Show up to the line. This tour they've tended to start when the previous show is happening, which we've encouraged because it means that local folks have a better shot of getting a good number before the regulars show up. Also, if you're prepared enough and know what you're doing, I don't think anyone would have a problem with you starting the line.

 

[nbelcik]

Then listen to the basic premise of what all of us our asking: use this power to communicate with the band's people and have them run the line, not the fans. An official communication about when the line is starting and how it's going to be run is all we want, for the most part.

I don't think the band will ever step up and run the line (although I know Nate's had conversations with U2 crew about that), but what Nate and Naomi have been pushing for is venue communication...but many venues won't announce the line due to liability reasons. Naomi and the line runners in Detroit helped convince the venue to send out information about the line, but many venues don't. Everyone who I've spoke to in the group chat I'm in really likes what Nashville is doing.

 

[mama cass]

Many of the line leaders would actually like to go back to camping. If you think that allowing camping would prevent the same people from being front row every show you're incredibly naive. Not to mention the fact that venues will not allow camping on their grounds due to liability and safety reasons. Those days are over.

are you guys the ones who do the "paper-doll" thing? i mean, how do you react when people run to grab a good spot when the doors open? (or do we only do that in Europe )

 

[kabigon]

Do what people did in the days before social media. Show up to the line. This tour they've tended to start when the previous show is happening, which we've encouraged because it means that local folks have a better shot of getting a good number before the regulars show up. Also, if you're prepared enough and know what you're doing, I don't think anyone would have a problem with you starting the line.

Before social media there were no check-ins, secret locations or private facebook groups that kept the information to a small group of people. A line started at, and visible to anyone passing by the venue is fair, and not comparable to what's happening now.

 

[mama cass]

Before social media there were no check-ins, secret locations or private facebook groups that kept the information to a small group of people. A line started at, and visible to anyone passing by the venue is fair, and not comparable to what's happening now.

thankfully it doesn't seem to be like this in Europe, as far as i can see anyway... hope it stays that way...

 

[nbelcik]

are you guys the ones who do the "paper-doll" thing? i mean, how do you react when people run to grab a good spot when the doors open? (or do we only do that in Europe )

Once again, the people who I go to shows with are against paper-dolling. I know that some people have taken spots that other people have been holding for other people, which is a good thing. Paper dolling sucks.

Honestly, as someone who's pretty fast, I would love to be able to run...I'd probably beat a lot of people, but it wouldn't be fair so I don't do it.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

It should be clear by now that Nate is right when he states that the venue rules don't matter. U2's team always makes the venue follow the list. People who think the list isn't going to be followed are naive. There's a reason why Nate will tell people that if they don't like the system they'll be more comfortable in seats. The check-in system is how the line is run and U2's team is on board. Also, it's kind of difficult to have a rational discussion who lie about him, insult him, and accuse him of doing things he hasn't done. You're right, Nate has become the symbol of the list, which is why when things like the list being kept a half a mile away from the venue happen, Nate gets blamed even if he had nothing to do with that. Meanwhile, when Nate actually steps up and creates a very good, transparent list, like in Phoenix, it gets ignored. It's a lose-lose situation for him.

Believe me, it actually does take skill to run a line. You have to be able to talk to security the right way, be firm on rules even if that upsets people, be able to communicate with people, and have good persuasion skills to ensure that the line happens on property. I've seen examples of lines that were run by unprepared people and in some cases (Seattle last tour) we were in a potentially dangerous situation. Line running isn't putting a number 1 on your hand and handling a notebook.

See you lose me and a lot of people with your open. That is what makes the system inherently unfair, and what leads to a lot of pissed off people.

It is clear to us, here, who are involved on message boards and Facebook groups that the venue rules don't matter.

That alone is bullshit and why LiveNation needs to step in.

If a venue issues rules and then they don't follow them? That's false advertising. You talk about venues not allowing camping because of liability, which is partially true (they don't want to incur the expense of supervising a bunch of U2 wackos for 48 hours, and can't allow them unsupervised for liability reasons). But if there was an incident between people who followed the rules and people who followed their own fan run rules and someone got hurt, there's certainly liability there as well. If there's a crush of people pushing to the entrances because the venue changes it's publicly written rules to accommodate people who made their own rules, there's a huge liability there. So one way or another, it is in the interest of the venues, LiveNation and U2 to figure this out before anything happens (such as what could have occurred in Seattle) - not after.

Telling someone who followed the venue's rules and who was denied that they'd be better off in seats is NOT rational. He's wrong to do that. Period.

The shit he's gotten here and in other places is also too far - I created this thread and I've made a few posts asking people to stick to actual wrong doing rather than simply bashing people - but on the flip side, jumping in and saying that anyone who disagrees with how the check in procedures are going is just a hater? Yea, it's ignoring obvious issues and only deepening the divide. There will always be people on message boards who are going to simply bash people, but honestly the majority of us simply want a system that's fair and open - and dismissing any complaints as simply being a hater, or "you don't do GA anyways", or "perhaps you'd be better off in seats" only adds to the impression that these groups and line leaders are in it for their own gain, whether that's true or not.

 

[TinKnight]

I am not sure you will be able to see these. But *gasp* it may as well be an online check in. Also, horror of horrors what if it becomes a Bruce system! View attachment 11961View attachment 11962

Wow, I expected a "bleh, this is dumb" not a full on meltdown. Beautiful.