Songs of Innocence - Album Discussion

[purpleblackeye]

Too early to make full assessment in context of band history but from volcano to the troubles seems one of the more interesting, varied and consistent 6 song stretches that I can remember. Love entire album but those last six songs to me are killer.


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[dan_smee]

Kind of funny how high it's ranked, all things considered.

In the months and years leading up to this, mostly what you heard around here was stuff like...

I want...

...something "experimental"...
...a "low key" release, just put it out there...
...something for "the fans"...
...for U2 to stop trying to be the biggest band in the world...
...for U2 to stop trying to make radio friendly pop hits!

Now that they've ignored all that and put out a pretty safe, mainstream collection of songs (great as they are) by partnering with one of the biggest corporations in the world with the biggest record release in history, all that's forgotten. To know what U2 was going to do all we had to do was expect U2 to act like U2.

It's amazing how good music just takes care of everything else.

Yep, great post.

I have also found that the gestation of this album was opposed to what the fans thought they needed to do to create great music. All the shouting about over-production killing NLOTH - this has made me think twice about that. I think NLOTH was watered-down conceptually, but over-cooked? - not a chance. If anything, I now think it was severely under-cooked. There is so much going on in these songs. They have fully formed melodies, licks, riffs, counter-melodies. They are complete songs. NLOTH is missing this for the most part. Some good to great ideas that aren't fully developed into songs.

 

[YBORCITY]

Yep, great post.

I have also found that the gestation of this album was opposed to what the fans thought they needed to do to create great music. All the shouting about over-production killing NLOTH - this has made me think twice about that. I think NLOTH was watered-down conceptually, but over-cooked? - not a chance. If anything, I now think it was severely under-cooked. There is so much going on in these songs. They have fully formed melodies, licks, riffs, counter-melodies. They are complete songs. NLOTH is missing this for the most part. Some good to great ideas that aren't fully developed into songs.

This is a great post..... a Monday morning quarterbacking the differences in both NLOTH and SOI.... I agree what was thought at over cooking now seems most of those songs under done. Except of course of MOS, I know doesn't get much love on here but going back and listening to it now kinda pointed us in the confessional mood Bono has been writing in. He turned the pen on himself and wrote what he saw in the mirror after the 40 years since his mom passed. Again, great perspective on the differences of the last two albums. Can't wait to hear Crystal Ballroom.

 

[angelordevil]

So fucking good.

Adam absolutely owns this album with those baselines you mention...

 

[Tranquilfire]

Too early to make full assessment in context of band history but from volcano to the troubles seems one of the more interesting, varied and consistent 6 song stretches that I can remember. Love entire album but those last six songs to me are killer.


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Completely agree. The back half is pretty consistently awesome.

Sent from my Freightliner, most likely.

 

[Nick66]

I don't know, I feel like I need to stick up for NLOTH a little bit.

Yeah, the album has some clunkers, to be sure. But damn, I think that was U2 really trying to be ambitious and stretch their wings. Did it always work? No. But I'm glad they did it anyway, and we got some amazing, all time classics out of that. NLOTH, Fez, and of course MOS. I mean...f*ck MOS, at this stage in their career? Parts of that record are just flat out bold and sonically adventurous like people want U2 to be...not concerned with pop radio hits. Don't get me wrong, the bad songs on that record, like dan_smee said, sound unfinished and not ready for prime time, and they bring down the whole record. But I would have loved to have heard the early concept for that album before Iovine got into their heads.

SOI is great, don't get me wrong, I love it. It's just what U2 needed right now. You could not dump NLOTH into 500 million iTunes libraries, you just couldn't. And we all agree that SOI is a more even and cohesive listening experience vs. NLOTH. So I'm not taking anything away from that record. But there's nothing as ambitious, IMO, on it as some of the best stuff on NLOTH. To the extent that SOI is a success and NLOTH is a failure, it's this...SOI aimed to be a solid collection of mainstream pop/rock songs and succeeded brilliantly. NLOTH aimed to be a sonic adventure like TUF, JT and AB and failed.

I don't know man, they're different albums with different goals. I don't see the need to throw one under the bus because something new and shinier has come along. They are both great, but different, records.

That said, SOI has managed to make me excited about U2 again it's getting me wanting to go back and listen to their studio records front to back again...something I haven't felt like in a long, long time.

 

[TonyH]

Okay, I'm just going to say it; MASTERPIECE!

I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me, but I've listened to this album dozens of times now...and it just keeps getting better!!!

To me, unlike other U2 albums, there is not a weak song on it.

 

[dan_smee]

I don't know, I feel like I need to stick up for NLOTH a little bit.

Yeah, the album has some clunkers, to be sure. But damn, I think that was U2 really trying to be ambitious and stretch their wings. Did it always work? No. But I'm glad they did it anyway, and we got some amazing, all time classics out of that. NLOTH, Fez, and of course MOS. I mean...f*ck MOS, at this stage in their career? Parts of that record are just flat out bold and sonically adventurous like people want U2 to be...not concerned with pop radio hits. Don't get me wrong, the bad songs on that record, like dan_smee said, sound unfinished and not ready for prime time, and they bring down the whole record. But I would have loved to have heard the early concept for that album before Iovine got into their heads.

SOI is great, don't get me wrong, I love it. It's just what U2 needed right now. You could not dump NLOTH into 500 million iTunes libraries, you just couldn't. And we all agree that SOI is a more even and cohesive listening experience vs. NLOTH. So I'm not taking anything away from that record. But there's nothing as ambitious, IMO, on it as some of the best stuff on NLOTH. To the extent that SOI is a success and NLOTH is a failure, it's this...SOI aimed to be a solid collection of mainstream pop/rock songs and succeeded brilliantly. NLOTH aimed to be a sonic adventure like TUF, JT and AB and failed.

I don't know man, they're different albums with different goals. I don't see the need to throw one under the bus because something new and shinier has come along. They are both great, but different, records.

That said, SOI has managed to make me excited about U2 again it's getting me wanting to go back and listen to their studio records front to back again...something I haven't felt like in a long, long time.

I think 50% of it is them stretching their wings. It comes back to why people thought they watered down the moroccan inspired album they set out to make. People assumed it was over-cooking, but I think they ran scared of the idea, and at the same time had some songs that needed to be baked a fair bit longer.

 

[Nick66]

I think 50% of it is them stretching their wings. It comes back to why people thought they watered down the moroccan inspired album they set out to make. People assumed it was over-cooking, but I think they ran scared of the idea, and at the same time had some songs that needed to be baked a fair bit longer.

I agree with this...that's why I said, the bad songs on that record bring the whole thing down. And yeah, it seems like they got scared and ran away from their original concept, which is a shame.

Anyway, don't want to get off on NLOTH, and my comment was directed at you. Just got a little peeved seeing it get slammed so much the past few days around the board.

 

[purpleoscar]

I think 50% of it is them stretching their wings. It comes back to why people thought they watered down the moroccan inspired album they set out to make. People assumed it was over-cooking, but I think they ran scared of the idea, and at the same time had some songs that needed to be baked a fair bit longer.

Unknown Caller could have improved lyrics but the music was great. Stand Up Comedy I enjoyed (especially the guitar) but the lyrics again could be more focused. Crazy tonight was okay but Bono's voice was strained and they had to radically change it live. I ended up liking NLOTH2 over the original which I didn't expect. Magnificent, MOS, and Breathe are major standouts. The last 3rd of the album was moody and ambient in a good way but is a little slow. The new album is moving like (instead of a knife through butter) a knife through air. It's faster paced than anything since Achtung.

 

[Niceman]

I'm a really big fan of NLOTH. There are some amazing songs on there. These two albums are not at odds. It's entirely possible to love them both.

 

[corianderstem]

I'm a big fan of NLOTH. The inconsistency is frustrating, but the only song on it I truly dislike is Stand Up Comedy ... and to be honest, it's nice to see Cedarwood Road work so well here, as I feel like it's what SUC wanted to be but failed miserably.

 

[angelordevil]

I'm a big fan of NLOTH. The inconsistency is frustrating, but the only song on it I truly dislike is Stand Up Comedy ... and to be honest, it's nice to see Cedarwood Road work so well here, as I feel like it's what SUC wanted to be but failed miserably.

 

[Pop Artist]

Too early to make full assessment in context of band history but from volcano to the troubles seems one of the more interesting, varied and consistent 6 song stretches that I can remember. Love entire album but those last six songs to me are killer.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

Yep, agree 100%, felt that on the first listen and my love of those six just continues to grow.

 

[venk]

Too early to make full assessment in context of band history but from volcano to the troubles seems one of the more interesting, varied and consistent 6 song stretches that I can remember. Love entire album but those last six songs to me are killer.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

I was thinking about adding my two cents...i'm just gonna use yours
The second half is definitely more interesting. If I dare say so, best wind down to an album since achtung baby...extremely consistent finish. Love Troubles and Cedarwood.

Having said that..I can't get California out of my mind.

 

[Nick66]

I'm a big fan of NLOTH. The inconsistency is frustrating, but the only song on it I truly dislike is Stand Up Comedy ... and to be honest, it's nice to see Cedarwood Road work so well here, as I feel like it's what SUC wanted to be but failed miserably.

For me it's mostly SUC and Crazy Tonight. Of the "problem children" I like UC, and even don't think Boots is that bad and don't quite understand the hate for that friendly little song.

 

[corianderstem]

I think Crazy Tonight is a well-crafted pop song, and I often like it a lot (depending on my mood). The live version was a total gas. It just doesn't belong on that album.

I really love Unknown Caller, even while I understand why some people find the lyrics troublesome.

But damn, that album has some really great, exciting moments, so I have a soft spot in my heart for it.

 

[YBORCITY]

Don't get me wring I liked Nloth but it seemed like they tried to do something and then pulled back. I often wonder if they didn't blink what the album would have been. Also like I said before it contains my favorite song since ATYCLB ERA with MOS, I don't wanna turn this into aNLOTH discussion and I think it was much better that Bomb.

After a bunch of listens SOI is pretty brilliant. I do like the second half, the Dangermouse stuff and the first half has a bit more synths it all works for me at least

 

[lazarus]

I don't know, I feel like I need to stick up for NLOTH a little bit.

Yeah, the album has some clunkers, to be sure. But damn, I think that was U2 really trying to be ambitious and stretch their wings. Did it always work? No. But I'm glad they did it anyway, and we got some amazing, all time classics out of that. NLOTH, Fez, and of course MOS. I mean...f*ck MOS, at this stage in their career? Parts of that record are just flat out bold and sonically adventurous like people want U2 to be...not concerned with pop radio hits. Don't get me wrong, the bad songs on that record, like dan_smee said, sound unfinished and not ready for prime time, and they bring down the whole record. But I would have loved to have heard the early concept for that album before Iovine got into their heads.

SOI is great, don't get me wrong, I love it. It's just what U2 needed right now. You could not dump NLOTH into 500 million iTunes libraries, you just couldn't. And we all agree that SOI is a more even and cohesive listening experience vs. NLOTH. So I'm not taking anything away from that record. But there's nothing as ambitious, IMO, on it as some of the best stuff on NLOTH. To the extent that SOI is a success and NLOTH is a failure, it's this...SOI aimed to be a solid collection of mainstream pop/rock songs and succeeded brilliantly. NLOTH aimed to be a sonic adventure like TUF, JT and AB and failed.

I don't know man, they're different albums with different goals. I don't see the need to throw one under the bus because something new and shinier has come along. They are both great, but different, records.

That said, SOI has managed to make me excited about U2 again it's getting me wanting to go back and listen to their studio records front to back again...something I haven't felt like in a long, long time.

All of this x 100

For me it's mostly SUC and Crazy Tonight. Of the "problem children" I like UC, and even don't think Boots is that bad and don't quite understand the hate for that friendly little song.

And this. SUC I can barely tolerate, and Crazy Tonight is so cringeworthy I skip it automatically on CD and have Winter on my playlist instead.

Boots is decent, at least fun. And UC is great; the lyrics on the verses are standout, the wonky chorus isn't enough to sink it for me.

 

[lazarus]

As for comparison between the albums, No Line starts out considerably stronger. I'll take the variety and depth of the title track, Magnificent, Moment Of Surrender, and Unknown Caller over the slick commercialism of The Miracle, Every Breaking Wave, California, and Song For Someone.

The difference is, one album gets better as it goes along and the other steps into a giant pothole in the middle before righting itself.

So which one is the better album? Hard to say; SOI is more "consistent" in that it sets a low bar and then proceeds to top it again and again. But I think if you chopped out the middle three of No Line, added Winter, Soon, and finished some other song lying around you would probably have a more artistically accomplished work.

 

[ozeeko]

It's funny how albums almost seem like people. I know you all have some visual association with each album, maybe a certain personality attached. NLOTH has now suddenly become an underdog since the release of SOI. A misunderstood introspective type of person who never could quite work up the courage to stand by his convictions in the face of less sensitive, brutish mofos.

 

[ShipOfFools]

I'm back...yikes. It's been four years since I last logged in here, and I did it today because I can't get this U2 album out of my mind.

It's quite honestly their best album since All That You Can't Leave Behind, and one of their best albums overall. I just love it to death. There are elements that remind me of 80's U2 (particularly October), and elements that remind me of Achtung Baby and Zooropa, and elements that remind me of today's U2. It's like the last two albums never happened (and I do like those albums, but this is a different beast.)

U2 didn't have to give it away for free, but I love that they did. Amazing album.

 

[RobertWiscy]

Here's the deal: immediately there were songs on HTDAAB and NLOTH that I either despised or was like meh. This album -- not the case. There's nothing I hate or find meh or embarrassing.

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[purpleoscar]

NLOTH feels more like another The Unforgettable Fire with great songs and some unfinished rushed works. Similarly TUF would have improved so much if Eno actually allowed Bono to finish Elvis Presley and America. Though the b-sides to TUF are great.

My version of NLOTH has NLOTH2, Disappearing Act, Soon and Winter. It still feels unfinished because Winter has some unfinished vocals and lyrics and the soundtrack version didn't do it for me. NLOTH also had problems in that we could hear snippets of interesting instrumental work that never made it to the final album. With Every Breaking Wave we can already see some fans pining for the old version, though I'm very happy with what we got.

That got me thinking about creating a new TUF compilation. I should have done this ages ago.

A Sort Of Homecoming
Pride (In The Name Of Love)
Boomerang II
The Unforgettable Fire
Promenade
Love Comes Tumbling
Bass Trap
The Three Sunrises
4th Of July
Bad
Indian Summer Sky
MLK
Sixty Seconds In Kingdom Come

 

[lazarus]

My version of NLOTH has NLOTH2, Disappearing Act, Soon and Winter.

Your version of a 2009 album contains a song with a backing track from 1984?

Umm, ok.

 

[prbiker15]

NLOTH2, Disappearing Act, Soon and Winter.

That's pretty interesting.

 

[purpleoscar]

Your version of a 2009 album contains a song with a backing track from 1984?

Umm, ok.

I like the modern vocals and it fit the atmospheric quality of NLOTH. I put it between MOS and Unknown Caller to make it like the characters that were married in MOS broke up in Disappearing Act and the depressed guy is suicidal in Unknown Caller. I'm used to it now.

 

[Niceman]

Your version of a 2009 album contains a song with a backing track from 1984?

Umm, ok.

It's not as crazy as you make it sound. It was finished far later.

 

[tomtom]

I like the modern vocals and it fit the atmospheric quality of NLOTH. I put it between MOS and Unknown Caller to make it like the characters that were married in MOS broke up in Disappearing Act and the depressed guy is suicidal in Unknown Caller. I'm used to it now.

That's interesting. I think of the "unknown caller" moment in UC happening to the character at exactly the moment that MOS ends.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to take that story any further given that Crazy Tonight is the next song.

 

[jrjunior31]

Speaking of going back and listening to earlier albums I went back and listened to some of Bomb today. I loved it when it came out, and I saw the Vertigo tour 5 times. But going back and listening today the sound quality seemed vastly inferior to SOI. It was strange I didn't like what I was hearing at all. Maybe I am just not a huge fan of Bomb and when it came out it was the newness factor that I loved. Or maybe SOI is just that much better? To my ears the production on SOI seems like it's in a different league.