Songs of Ascent: the lost album

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Johnny Cash put out his American label recordings as an old man and he regained relevance, Dylan started making great records again in his 50s, after 10+ years of mediocrity, and he garnered attention and acclaim. Springsteen, too.

so long as they don't try and pose as young guns, they'll be fine. a great album will receive the attention it deserves.

that's the problem... they're at this crossroads where they still try to compete with the young guns, but they're old.

the three artists you named didn't try to remain hip and cool with the kids, they just made good music that was relevant to their age and experience, and in that rejection of the mainstream, they actually were able to be come hip and cool with the kids agian.

u2 just seems to be at a point where they try too hard to be popular. it's no line's major fault in my eyes... they wanted to go down that expermental road and just make the record they wanted to make, but they couldn't quite cut away from making sure that it was also radio friendly!

radio friendly pop is great... experimental, trippy shit is great... but when those two mix, it just kinda confuses people.

 

[Registered Dude]

that's the problem... they're at this crossroads where they still try to compete with the young guns, but they're old.

the three artists you named didn't try to remain hip and cool with the kids, they just made good music that was relevant to their age and experience, and in that rejection of the mainstream, they actually were able to be come hip and cool with the kids agian.

u2 just seems to be at a point where they try too hard to be popular. it's no line's major fault in my eyes... they wanted to go down that expermental road and just make the record they wanted to make, but they couldn't quite cut away from making sure that it was also radio friendly!

radio friendly pop is great... experimental, trippy shit is great... but when those two mix, it just kinda confuses people.

agreed...

though Dylan and Springsteen did go through periods where they seemed lost, as though they were having to figure out if they had anything left to say.. Bruce dropped the E-Street band, starting writing in the first person, and released some pretty mediocre albums. Bob went through his Christian/Grateful Dead phase, and released some pretty awful albums..

I think U2 is in a similar position. What does U2 have to say anymore? do they have any artistic focus, a "voice"? they no longer seem interested in taking a political stand, Bono's writing about characters in his songs, (not to mention Spiderman).

I'm hoping with time will come renewed focus.

Edit: maybe uncertainty can be their guiding light, once again

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

well Bruce started writing in the first person long before he dropped the E-Street... almost the entire Nebraska album is in the first person... but i do agree with the all around feeling that Springsteen and Dylan had to come to terms with the idea that they were now the elder statesmen of rock and just do what they wanted to do both live and on record as opposed to trying to keep up with the trends of the day.

u2 needs to figure this out as well. they care too much about staying culturaly relevant with their new material. just do what you want to do and if the material is good enough then it'll be relevant all on it's own.

the rock hall of fame concerts said it all for me... here we have all these great all time artists playing songs from their entire catalogue, having these great moments and celebrations, and U2 goes out and opens with vertigo and magnificent, ends with beautiful day, and somehow has the fucking black eyed peas involved. where the hell was streets? bad? i will follow? come on... i understand wanting to show everyone that you still write good songs, which they do... but that was the moment to embrace their history, and while the things they did with springsteen and jagger were great, but come on... it's ok to be old. embrace it.

 

[ndmaxfield]

What does U2 have to say anymore?

They should stop worrying about dictating any particular message and just focus on writing great songs. A lot of their songs have gradually come to take-on greater meaning over time (e.g., One), when those songs were originally just written more as a concept (lyrically) and backed by great music. Lately, U2 almost seems to have a "conflict of interest" between their commitment to creativity and their ability to affect change in the world. They realize their music reaches millions of people, and (I think) they've tried to use their music to convey very specific messages, but often flop. It seems like when U2 intentionally tries to convey a grandiose message (e.g., Love and Peace), they somehow produce something less rich than it could have been (like they're trying to please as many ears as possible by not going too experimental on the music or too emotional/raw on the lyrics = boring). It seems like when they are blind to the ultimate goal of each song, and just focus on writing something great (i.e., they can "feel" this is going to be something special, but they don't know exactly how just yet), we get greatness.

 

[Registered Dude]

They realize their music reaches millions of people, and (I think) they've tried to use their music to convey very specific messages, but often flop. It seems like when U2 intentionally tries to convey a grandiose message (e.g., Love and Peace), they somehow produce something less rich than it could have been (like they're trying to please as many ears as possible by not going too experimental on the music or too emotional/raw on the lyrics = boring). It seems like when they are blind to the ultimate goal of each song, and just focus on writing something great (i.e., they can "feel" this is going to be something special, but they don't know exactly how just yet), we get greatness.

agree with this too..

all of which seems to suggest that they are unsure of their voice nowadays.. they're looking for something to say...

 

[Registered Dude]

though if MOS and NLOTH the song are any indication, great ideas still come naturally in the moment.. a great sign that they're still on to something

 

[U2girl]

they just need to put out a really solid album. if it captures the public attention than great, if it doesn't, that's too bad but there's nothing we can do about it.

Johnny Cash put out his American label recordings as an old man and he regained relevance, Dylan started making great records again in his 50s, after 10+ years of mediocrity, and he garnered attention and acclaim. Springsteen, too.

so long as they don't try and pose as young guns, they'll be fine. a great album will receive the attention it deserves.

For some reason it's easier for solo musicians to make great albums late in the game.

What band past 50 pulled something like that off ? Also, what band can do it in the download/singles era ?

 

[Niceman]

For some reason it's easier for solo musicians to make great albums late in the game.

What band past 50 pulled something like that off ? Also, what band can do it in the download/singles era ?

What band of importance ever managed to go this long without breaking up?

I think it is an important point that U2 has managed to fall into a trap with big messages. But at the same time, Bono's political work has hogtied him. He's afraid to offend anyone now. So, we have this luke-warm middle that gives us "Peace on earth," "When I look at the World," "Love and Peace or Else" that talk about world issues only in the vaguest and most non-offensive of ways.

They want to save the world without taking any sides.

 

[bram]

Now that I think about it, U2 only began writing songs specifically aimed at teens starting this decade, and the shamelessness of this move has been increasing with each album, culminating with Crazy Tonight and Stand Up Comedy. They need to go back to writing adult music only. If they do, it's possible that teens will actually like it this time around.

 

[Registered Dude]

Now that I think about it, U2 only began writing songs specifically aimed at teens starting this decade, and the shamelessness of this move has been increasing with each album, culminating with Crazy Tonight and Stand Up Comedy. They need to go back to writing adult music only. If they do, it's actually possible that teens will actually like it this time around.

what if that means more Graces and Yahwehs?

 

[bram]

Well, it's obviously just a starting point: Don't write music aimed at the 12-17 demographic. Ok, check. Don't write overt hymns to the Hebrew God and the Holy Spirit. Ok, check.

 

[U2girl]

They want to save the world without taking any sides.

Wasn't that the whole point of their political songs ? Not taking any sides ?

And Don't write overt hymns to the Hebrew God and the Holy Spirit. that's a tough one for U2.

The time to be hip is gone - they're too old now for the kids to care about.

 

[bram]

Well, that was tongue-in-cheek. Still, I'd rather have them write 'God Part III' and 'Jesus Christ II' than 'Twitter Truth to Power' and 'Let's Go Crazy at Prom Tonight.'

 

[ndmaxfield]

Well, that was tongue-in-cheek. Still, I'd rather have them write 'God Part III' and 'Jesus Christ II' than 'Twitter Truth to Power' and 'Let's Go Crazy at Prom Tonight.'

I think they should write a song about divorce, or twins, called "Two."

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Now that I think about it, U2 only began writing songs specifically aimed at teens starting this decade, and the shamelessness of this move has been increasing with each album, culminating with Crazy Tonight and Stand Up Comedy. They need to go back to writing adult music only. If they do, it's possible that teens will actually like it this time around.

even unknown caller, one of the most, i dunno, ambitious songs in it's experimentation had touches of this...


i think this all stems from us on interference making fun of freedom having a scent like cheerio's and baby poop.

 

[Niceman]

They want to save the world without taking any sides.

Wasn't that the whole point of their political songs ? Not taking any sides ?

Yes and no. In Sunday Bloody Sunday they didn't take the Protestant or the Catholic side - they lectured BOTH of them. I think it was a lot more bold.

 

[zoocarolina]

Aren't we all forgetting about 360 which will probably go down as the largest grossing tour of all time if it's extended. To me that is being relevant and if they put out a hugely popular album at the end of the year, they'll be at one of the high points in their career again. A good album with a good theme (how NLOTH should have been all the way through!) and it'll buy them another couple years to put out the next, then the next then who knows. Eventually they'll stop trying to please the teenie boppers and gracefully ride it out.

If they can still produce a FEROCIOUS tune like MOS, they can keep the fire burning!

I call the lack of NLOTH success (a major success by most band's standards) a true anomaly of poor timing, poor economy and poor lead single for god sakes!

 

[Niceman]

Aren't we all forgetting about 360 which will probably go down as the largest grossing tour of all time if it's extended. To me that is being relevant and if they put out a hugely popular album at the end of the year, they'll be at one of the high points in their career again. A good album with a good theme (how NLOTH should have been all the way through!) and it'll buy them another couple years to put out the next, then the next then who knows. Eventually they'll stop trying to please the teenie boppers and gracefully ride it out.

If they can still produce a FEROCIOUS tune like MOS, they can keep the fire burning!

I call the lack of NLOTH success (a major success by most band's standards) a true anomaly of poor timing, poor economy and poor lead single for god sakes!

It was 90% not listening to Brian Eno and picking Get On Your Boots instead of Moment of Surrender....

 

[zoocarolina]

It was 90% not listening to Brian Eno and picking Get On Your Boots instead of Moment of Surrender....

I guess it's up to Edge to redeem himself on the next album!

 

[powerhour24]

MOS would not have been a commercially viable lead single, not to mention any radio edit of it would kill the song. Eno is not the master of knowing commercially successful material, the man tried to erase the masters of Streets because he thought it was horrible.

NLOTH or Mag, much better choices.

 

[Niceman]

MOS would not have been a commercially viable lead single, not to mention any radio edit of it would kill the song. Eno is not the master of knowing commercially successful material, the man tried to erase the masters of Streets because he thought it was horrible.

NLOTH or Mag, much better choices.

Magnificent was the second single. It was NOT popular or successful. I strongly agree with Eno that the band needed to do something unexpected, and I believe that could only have been MOS. I've heard it played on the radio, and in the supermarket -unedited- more than once, and it wasn't even a single!

 

[lazarus]

Do we have to remind everyone again that WOWY didn't sound like a hit single, either?

I don't think MOS failing is a sure thing. I think the power of the song would have trumped its lack of electric guitar or speed. Remember, you had people like Lars Ulrich from Metallica praising that thing.

It should have won Grammys for song and record of the year, and it's sad they were so proud of it yet never gave it a chance.

 

[BVS]

Different landscape.

End of (sad)story...

 

[Utoo]

I've said it before, and it fits here, too: What U2 lacks right now is sexual tension. That's what made and makes WOWY great, and why MOS would be so incredibly dull as a single. He'll, it was the driving force behind all of Achtung Baby. It's the force behind all of their non-uplifting music (I.e., not streets or BD). There was a glimpse of it in IALW, but the song's music provided no tension.

Post-1984 U2 are at their best in songs about hurt and longing. Until that comes back, we may have a few fun and interesting songs, but no masterpieces.

 

[ascender_RS]

Just disappointed the way this has all fizzled out to be honest. They had a great chance when the tour ended to keep the momentum going, release something, whether that was an EP or the SOA album, that would keep them in the public eye, the minds of their fans and build excitement for the next tour dates.

I was tidying out some files last night and found the short Fez clip with them playing with some Moroccan musicians and it sounds brilliant, I just wish we'd heard more of the sounds they were experimenting with during that time. They definitely seem to be playing it safe, which is a real shame.

Never thought I'd hear myself saying this, but i'm pretty non-plussed about the next tour dates.

 

[KUEFC09U2]

Just disappointed the way this has all fizzled out to be honest. They had a great chance when the tour ended to keep the momentum going, release something, whether that was an EP or the SOA album, that would keep them in the public eye, the minds of their fans and build excitement for the next tour dates.

I was tidying out some files last night and found the short Fez clip with them playing with some Moroccan musicians and it sounds brilliant, I just wish we'd heard more of the sounds they were experimenting with during that time. They definitely seem to be playing it safe, which is a real shame.

Never thought I'd hear myself saying this, but i'm pretty non-plussed about the next tour dates.

Can i have your tickets then please? because i sure wish they where coming back to the UK

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Aren't we all forgetting about 360 which will probably go down as the largest grossing tour of all time if it's extended. To me that is being relevant

... and who's most recent tour would they be passing?

 

[Irvine511]

I've said it before, and it fits here, too: What U2 lacks right now is sexual tension. That's what made and makes WOWY great, and why MOS would be so incredibly dull as a single. He'll, it was the driving force behind all of Achtung Baby. It's the force behind all of their non-uplifting music (I.e., not streets or BD). There was a glimpse of it in IALW, but the song's music provided no tension.

Post-1984 U2 are at their best in songs about hurt and longing. Until that comes back, we may have a few fun and interesting songs, but no masterpieces.

this is absolutely true.

the sad-yet-happy truth is that all members of U2 seem to be very happy people with great families and spouses and live fantastic lives with everything they all could ever possibly want.

which is pretty boring. not always, but often, compelling art comes from emotional pain. we need a good, messy divorce again.

you could argue that they could draw anger from politics, like they did on War, but it is true that maturity and sophistication -- which Bono certainly has -- does not lend itself well to chest-thumping outrage like SBS. only a 22-year old could have written that, not a 50-year old man who has developed a nuanced understanding of economics and history.

so i don't know what you do if you are U2 at this point.

 

[nielsgov]

Why is everyone so negative here? If you'd believe everything in this thread you'd think U2 is almost going to stop and that they only make shitty music now. Some people think that of course but I don't think they'd post here.

 

[Niceman]

I think some of you underestimate how good a song Moment of Surrender was.