Songs of _________________; New album discussion #7

[dan_smee]

I’m looking forward to reimagined recent songs. I imagine something like little things will be seriously enhanced by a chapter explaining it.

 

[Registered Dude]

Have folks heard the version of Vertigo from the other night?

Might be the SOS album arrangement? Not terribly different. But not terrible either https://soundcloud.com/user-468879649/2022-10-07-vertigo/s-vRGlwT25cyI

 

[The John Tree]

The issue I have with that performance of Vertigo (and with this entire project, generally speaking) is that if you’re going to do a version of an old song, it has to be either better than the original, or so different than the original that it necessitates me listening to it. That version of Vertigo is just “Vertigo…over cellos.”

Compare that to, say, the version of One that Bono and Edge did with Eno and Pavarotti. It was the same song, but done differently enough that I can listen to the two versions back to back and feel two different emotions, experiences, etc. I feel the same way about Every Breaking Wave - same song, but I enjoy both versions because they’re different enough to warrant two versions.

I’m hoping the majority of cuts on this album are like that, and not like the performance of Vertigo, or like acoustic Stuck.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Meanwhile…

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Oh lord

 

[dan_smee]

The issue I have with that performance of Vertigo (and with this entire project, generally speaking) is that if you’re going to do a version of an old song, it has to be either better than the original, or so different than the original that it necessitates me listening to it. That version of Vertigo is just “Vertigo…over cellos.”



Compare that to, say, the version of One that Bono and Edge did with Eno and Pavarotti. It was the same song, but done differently enough that I can listen to the two versions back to back and feel two different emotions, experiences, etc. I feel the same way about Every Breaking Wave - same song, but I enjoy both versions because they’re different enough to warrant two versions.



I’m hoping the majority of cuts on this album are like that, and not like the performance of Vertigo, or like acoustic Stuck.

Yeah, it’s the same. Except the cellos. And the no guitars, on what is essentially a guitar driven cock-rock song. Or bass. Or drums. But the same.

 

[Gonna Run 2 U]

Yeah, it’s the same. Except the cellos. And the no guitars, on what is essentially a guitar driven cock-rock song. Or bass. Or drums. But the same.

Cock-rock?

 

[Registered Dude]

11 O’Clock Thick Cock

 

[dan_smee]

Cock-rock?

Like, it’s not about dicks, but it is certainly a balls-to-the-wall rocker

 

[pacemaker]

If you don't like the Cock Rock identifier, Big Swaggery-Fuck-Off-Riff Rock could also work it's just more of a mouthful.

 

[ascender_RS]

Relevant to the chapters in the book or not, can we just take a moment to pour one out for Zooropa and Pop, two of my favourite (not necessarily best) albums U2 have recorded and seem to want to forget they recorded,

 

[Hewson]

it's just more of a mouthful.

 

[Registered Dude]

Relevant to the chapters in the book or not, can we just take a moment to pour one out for Zooropa and Pop, two of my favourite (not necessarily best) albums U2 have recorded and seem to want to forget they recorded,

cheers to that

 

[DeVaul]

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Relevant to the chapters in the book or not, can we just take a moment to pour one out for Zooropa and Pop, two of my favourite (not necessarily best) albums U2 have recorded and seem to want to forget they recorded,

eh... Pop for sure.

but in the past decade they've played Zooropa, Stay and Dirty Day lite - so it's not a complete ignoring of the album.

again - the songs on this album are based on chapters in the book, so i don't think we should read too much into which albums they come from.

 

[DeVaul]

eh... Pop for sure.



but in the past decade they've played Zooropa, Stay and Dirty Day lite - so it's not a complete ignoring of the album.



again - the songs on this album are based on chapters in the book, so i don't think we should read too much into which albums they come from.

Zooropa on 360 was cool and it’s insane they didn’t use the big production setup more impressively through most of the show

 

[lazarus]

again - the songs on this album are based on chapters in the book, so i don't think we should read too much into which albums they come from.

Right, but the band choosing which songs to rework for a new album should have been curated more carefully than "these titles worked as thematic chapters in my book", considering it's only his memoir and not theirs.

It's particularly lame to see material pulled from SOI when that album already came with a bonus disc featuring alternate/acoustic versions of some of it.

 

[Registered Dude]

Right, but the band choosing which songs to rework for a new album should have been curated more carefully than "these titles worked as thematic chapters in my book", considering it's only his memoir and not theirs.

It's particularly lame to see material pulled from SOI when that album already came with a bonus disc featuring alternate/acoustic versions of some of it.

maybe we shouldn't be expecting 40 new recordings. Wouldn't be surprised if some of these reworkings were already released alternate cuts.

That said, maybe that'd be OK! As we're still talking 35ish newly recorded tunes. Which is great and certainly not something I would ever have expected from these guys

 

[DeVaul]

They’re lazy.

 

[lightmyway91]

I have to admit I would have liked them to pick as many early songs as possible to rework just because I feel like they have the most room for improvement, particularly with Bono’s vocals. Every track on the boy album that’s been performed in later years sounds better from the full band imo. I’am still a big fan of the boy album but it’s been massively improved live. I’m glad Bad is in there, never thought the album version did that justice, I also feel the same about October, so there are some good picks but I would have happily sacrificed at least 3 or 4 of the 11 from the last 2 albums for more boy songs.

 

[womanfish]

Relevant to the chapters in the book or not, can we just take a moment to pour one out for Zooropa and Pop, two of my favourite (not necessarily best) albums U2 have recorded and seem to want to forget they recorded,

Absolutely. I happen to think they are two of their best records. I have come to appreciate them more and more over time, where other albums of theirs have faded. I think Lemon would be a song that could have been completely reimagined, in a low register, different instrumentation, etc...

Anyway. The bands treatment of these albums, especially POP really disappoints me. I'd like to sit them down and say, listen to these two albums front to back and learn from your past selves.

 

[Hollow Island]

Zooropa doesn't seem like the most personal album, so it's no wonder that none of its songs were used as chapter titles or framing devices. I have a feeling that the "framing device" idea came up after he started writing. It seems like the kind of idea that would come from an editor.

Daddy's Gonna Pay would have been good for a chapter dealing with Zoo TV, but some of its subject matter is unlikely to be covered by this book.

Gone is probably a chapter in the book. Bono will surely write about fame and the effect it's had on him, and it would lead in to the Stuck chapter, given that the latter is about Hutchence and the former was dedicated to him. I think those two chapters will be the big ones when it comes to talking about fame and mental health.

 

[MattD]

Meanwhile…

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If anything kills the Beatles v Stones argument stone dead (which was never an argument ever, how anyone could think some blues pastiche band are better than those four scousers is beyond me), that's it right there.

Oh and he has an NFT as his profile picture. That's what Ryan Tedder is, NFT music, no wonder uber corporate modern day U2 love him.

 

[The John Tree]

Yeah, it’s the same. Except the cellos. And the no guitars, on what is essentially a guitar driven cock-rock song. Or bass. Or drums. But the same.

You really don't understand what I'm saying? Or you're just being snarky because God forbid I level a criticism?

The cello is just taking the place of the guitar - playing the same riff, the same way, and it doesn't work. Bono sang the song the same way. If the songs are going to be reworked, they should be dramatically reworked. Not "the song as is, but now over cello instead of guitar."

If this is the way the album's gonna go, I'm not optimistic. Hopefully it's not - 11 O'Clock Tick Tock is apparently confirmed and I have no idea how they could convincingly pull that off acoustically without a somewhat dramatic reinvention.

That's all I was saying.

 

[The John Tree]

That's what Ryan Tedder is, NFT music, no wonder uber corporate modern day U2 love him.

An excellent description of Tedder's work.

 

[lightmyway91]

You really don't understand what I'm saying? Or you're just being snarky because God forbid I level a criticism?

The cello is just taking the place of the guitar - playing the same riff, the same way, and it doesn't work. Bono sang the song the same way. If the songs are going to be reworked, they should be dramatically reworked. Not "the song as is, but now over cello instead of guitar."

If this is the way the album's gonna go, I'm not optimistic. Hopefully it's not - 11 O'Clock Tick Tock is apparently confirmed and I have no idea how they could convincingly pull that off acoustically without a somewhat dramatic reinvention.

That's all I was saying.

Not to weigh into the debate but just to inform it’s not an acoustic album so some of the reinventions may well just be new arrangements with all the usual instruments. 11 o’clock tick tock is another good one you’ve picked out that I think is almost certain to be improved over the original studio version. Ordinary love has been confirmed now as well just to add.

 

[MattD]

Zooropa doesn't seem like the most personal album, so it's no wonder that none of its songs were used as chapter titles or framing devices. I have a feeling that the "framing device" idea came up after he started writing. It seems like the kind of idea that would come from an editor.

Daddy's Gonna Pay would have been good for a chapter dealing with Zoo TV, but some of its subject matter is unlikely to be covered by this book.

Gone is probably a chapter in the book. Bono will surely write about fame and the effect it's had on him, and it would lead in to the Stuck chapter, given that the latter is about Hutchence and the former was dedicated to him. I think those two chapters will be the big ones when it comes to talking about fame and mental health.

Lemon is the most personal lyric Bono's ever had I think. It works so much better than Iris because it's a more effective portrait of grief and reflection through the prism of one poignant moment, i.e. watching a home video of his mother in a lemon dress at a wedding. Ruminating on how that impacted him as a man and his yearning by viewing grainy footage from the past gives it that great sense of time and distance. It's the nearest Bono could get to seeing his mother again, the nearest a son can get to his mother's love and he's chasing that beauty through other means, but never quite fulfilling a childlike desire that never leaves. It's chasing innocence that he can never recapture.

Iris, much like a lot of Bono's modern day lyrics don't inspire me in such a way. It's a lovely sentiment and affecting for sure but it doesn't hold anything as poignant. What made U2 genuinely great and unique is songs like Lemon.

They miss a trick in not reinventing Lemon. It subverts the very personal lyric through it's weird and inventive production but strip it all back and there's a very stark and devastating song.

But hey ho, the band seem skewed in their mind these days as to what genuine quality is, happy to dismiss such genius and emphasise shite Hallmark card platitudes like Song For Someone. This is why haters think U2 are crap, because they only ever push this rubbish over real quality.

 

[womanfish]

Lemon is the most personal lyric Bono's ever had I think. It works so much better than Iris because it's a more effective portrait of grief and reflection through the prism of one poignant moment, i.e. watching a home video of his mother in a lemon dress at a wedding. Ruminating on how that impacted him as a man and his yearning by viewing grainy footage from the past gives it that great sense of time and distance. It's the nearest Bono could get to seeing his mother again, the nearest a son can get to his mother's love and he's chasing that beauty through other means, but never quite fulfilling a childlike desire that never leaves. It's chasing innocence that he can never recapture.

Iris, much like a lot of Bono's modern day lyrics don't inspire me in such a way. It's a lovely sentiment and affecting for sure but it doesn't hold anything as poignant. What made U2 genuinely great and unique is songs like Lemon.

They miss a trick in not reinventing Lemon. It subverts the very personal lyric through it's weird and inventive production but strip it all back and there's a very stark and devastating song.

But hey ho, the band seem skewed in their mind these days as to what genuine quality is, happy to dismiss such genius and emphasise shite Hallmark card platitudes like Song For Someone. This is why haters think U2 are crap, because they only ever push this rubbish over real quality.

Absolutely love your description of Lemon. I read it like three times through.

I was listening to it a couple nights ago and it just hits me more and more as time goes by. Could see them doing an almost Leonard Cohen-esque take of it... as a complete flip on the falsetto filled original.

 

[ATLU2]

Lemon is the most personal lyric Bono's ever had I think. It works so much better than Iris because it's a more effective portrait of grief and reflection through the prism of one poignant moment, i.e. watching a home video of his mother in a lemon dress at a wedding. Ruminating on how that impacted him as a man and his yearning by viewing grainy footage from the past gives it that great sense of time and distance. It's the nearest Bono could get to seeing his mother again, the nearest a son can get to his mother's love and he's chasing that beauty through other means, but never quite fulfilling a childlike desire that never leaves. It's chasing innocence that he can never recapture.

Iris, much like a lot of Bono's modern day lyrics don't inspire me in such a way. It's a lovely sentiment and affecting for sure but it doesn't hold anything as poignant. What made U2 genuinely great and unique is songs like Lemon.

They miss a trick in not reinventing Lemon. It subverts the very personal lyric through it's weird and inventive production but strip it all back and there's a very stark and devastating song.

But hey ho, the band seem skewed in their mind these days as to what genuine quality is, happy to dismiss such genius and emphasise shite Hallmark card platitudes like Song For Someone. This is why haters think U2 are crap, because they only ever push this rubbish over real quality.

Or Tomorrow...

 

[dan_smee]

You really don't understand what I'm saying? Or you're just being snarky because God forbid I level a criticism?



The cello is just taking the place of the guitar - playing the same riff, the same way, and it doesn't work. Bono sang the song the same way. If the songs are going to be reworked, they should be dramatically reworked. Not "the song as is, but now over cello instead of guitar."



If this is the way the album's gonna go, I'm not optimistic. Hopefully it's not - 11 O'Clock Tick Tock is apparently confirmed and I have no idea how they could convincingly pull that off acoustically without a somewhat dramatic reinvention.



That's all I was saying.

I genuinely didn’t, and still don’t understand your comments. It seems to be that you expect the melody (the way Bono songs it) and the basis of the music (the riff) be entirely different. I think your expectations are possibly unrealistic.

Also a a low quality audience recorded clip of a live performance of it probably isn’t a great representation to base initial judgements on.

If it’s shit, it’s shit. Criticism is fine. I don’t think what you are saying is criticism.

 

[The John Tree]

I genuinely didn’t, and still don’t understand your comments. It seems to be that you expect the melody (the way Bono songs it) and the basis of the music (the riff) be entirely different. I think your expectations are possibly unrealistic.

Also a a low quality audience recorded clip of a live performance of it probably isn’t a great representation to base initial judgements on.

If it’s shit, it’s shit. Criticism is fine. I don’t think what you are saying is criticism.

Forgive my previous tone, then. The internet has trained me to be ready to fight at any moment.

I suppose what I’m saying is that I do expect some differences in the songs. I’m struggling to come up with an example in U2’s songs, but Bruce Springsteen, for example, is a master at taking his more upbeat tunes and transitioning them to a more mellow, stripped down arrangement (which is what this project is, no?). The melodies remain the same, but the arrangement is changed to work with just a guitar or piano/organ/Wurlitzer.

I don’t expect the entire melody and song structure to be different - but in the case of the version of Vertigo performed, it was a little too close for me. You were right when you called Vertigo a guitar-based cock rock song earlier, and the song is actually reliant on that, to me, so this version didn’t really land for me.

The one thing that I *did* like about the performance of Vertigo (I thought the audio in the clip was sufficient to judge it) was that Bono’s voice was in fine form and he was singing full voiced. When I heard they were rearranging their old tunes in a sparse, stripped down way, I was concerned that we were going to get low-register, breathy Bono, like we did on the acoustic version of You’re The Best Thing…, which I absolutely loathe.