Some more people pissed off at U2 (what a surprise)

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biff

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From the Sunday Independent: another group of people joining the queue of U2-haters:



Bono, Edge at centre of Clarence row


NIAMH HORAN

A LEADING conservationist has launched a vitriolic attack on U2 rock stars Bono and The Edge accusing them of a "fetish for glamour" in what he calls the "bastardisation" of their landmark Dublin property the Clarence Hotel.

"Unfortunately for its owners, the Clarence Hotel is not a pair of sunglasses or a hat," says Michael Smith, the former head of An Taisce, objecting to their plans to re-develop the iconic Dublin hotel and referring to their recent legal battles with stylist Lola Cashman.

"The common good is not served by allowing the richest people in Ireland to build with the benefit of tax incentives, only to demolish when they get bored," says Smith, who, along with barrister Colm Mac Eochaidh, was responsible for launching the Flood (Mahon) Tribunal and who lives across the river Liffey from the U2 hotel. Mr Smith said he was making the objection as a "neighbour and frequenter" of the hotel.

"The City Council has indulged U2 and Mr Paddy McKillen [their property partner] long enough," he maintains. "The owners clearly still have not found what they are looking for."

In their plans, the owners of the Clarence have applied for permission to demolish an award-winning extension and to put a "sky-catcher", or glass dome, on top of the newly developed hotel - which would alter its current boutique status to five-star hotel.

Smith is not the only one concerned that the planning application may be influenced by the "celebrity names" associated with the development.

"I would ask Dublin City Council to consider the possibility that it is not the architectural quality of the Foster design, or its response to the urban context of the Quays, which are the real selling points of this proposal, but rather the weight of the celebrity names associated with it," says conservation architect Richard McLoughlin in his observation on the plan.

They are just two of the nine groups and individuals, including An Taisce and the Irish Georgian Society, who have objected to the €150m revamp of the Clarence.

The hotel was originally owned by the four membersof U2 and well-known Dublin trucking millionaire Harry Crosbie. But Larry Mullen, Adam Clayton andMr Crosbie are no longerassociated with the venture.

The Clarence is now owned by U2's Bono and the Edge and the low-key Dublin developer Paddy McKillen, who has substantial property interests in the city. The celebrated London architect firm Foster and Partners have been employed to design the new development.

But it is Mr Smith, who has been involved in manny planning battles in the past - through a company called Lanesford, who has been most voiciferous in his objection.

"The fact that the current owners are not up to running a hotel, having allegedly lost €12m on their plaything, does not give them the right to demolish it and start again," says Mr Smith.

He also asks: "The building won a conservation award as recently as 2005 from the Royal Insitute of Architects in Ireland (RIAI). So why demolish it?"

Originally built as a hotel in 1852, it was a well-known haunt of country people and parish priests visiting Dublin until it was taken over in 1992 by members of U2. Since then it has become a hit with some of the world's biggest names in the worlds of politics and show business, including former US President Bill Clinton and a whole host of supermodels from Naomi Campbell to Christy Turlington and Kate Moss.

Now the owners plan to demolish the Georgian building and transform the 44-bedroom boutique hotel into a nine-story, 141-bedroom five-star hotel and spa complete with signature restaurant, bar and fresh food market. A key feature of the proposal, however, is the "sky-catcher" atrium, which is said to have been inspired by the sleek shape of a Viking boat.

The new expanded hotel will encompass the former Dollard printing works and four other Georgian buildings on Wellington Quay.

Other objectors include An Taisce, which says the proposal is completely inappropriate for both the protected structures and their historic city-centre location, and the Irish Georgian Society, which believes that the development would dwarf adjoining buildings and dominate the Liffey quays.

When contacted, Foster, the architecture firm responsible for the hotel's proposed development, said they did not wish to make any comment on the matter.
 
:huh: what's this guy's problem??? they're changing the hotel in a more luxurious one, which will be good for the tourism right?

and sicne when did Larry and Adam also own the Clarence? I thought it was just Bono and Edge all the time!
 
Ya know, as far as I remember before Bono and Edge bought the hotel, it was in a sorry state of affair and was well on the way to being demolished like a lot of old buildings in Dublin have been. So this guy, whoever he his, should be grateful to Bono and Edge that the Clarence is still standing!! :tsk:
 
Seems like a solid plan to me. I always thought expanding to increase profit and tourism was a good thing? However, I would like to know why they are so against the idea in the first place. There has to be some valid reason like the "historical landmark" argument.
 
biff said:

Now the owners plan to demolish the Georgian building and transform the 44-bedroom boutique hotel into a nine-story, 141-bedroom five-star hotel and spa complete with signature restaurant, bar and fresh food market. A key feature of the proposal, however, is the "sky-catcher" atrium, which is said to have been inspired by the sleek shape of a Viking boat.


Only 44 rooms? No wonder it was losing money.

The new version sounds nice.

A redevelopment fight? Are we sure these guys don't live in my area - it's all about redevelopment fights around here :yes:.
 
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While I am all for preservation of historic buildings for culture's sake, and am slightly wary of the fact the the planned demolitions are for listed buildings, I must say, their arguements are pretty rubbish.

Basically what these men are saying is that this redevelopment will make the city look different. They deserve a hearty congratulations for seeing the obvious. Just because it will change the scenery of the riverside does not automatically mean it will be worse. Dublin has been reluctant to move forward as it has got richer, which, for all intents and purposes, is fine for the historical buildings such as the GPO. However, a certain amount of modernisation would be welcome in the city, and you know what? If they didn't do it, someone else would. It is only a matter of time before Dublin makes itself more tourist-friendly rather than just luring the culture vultures.

Belfast, my own city, has been doing this since the end of the Troubles. Getting rid of the watchtowers, the H-blocks, because none of it is useful any more. It only serves to remind people of what went on a good few decades ago that people would rather forget. Now, it's getting a whole new look with shopping malls and becoming more of a city that everyone can travel to. Those who want to see Belfast's past can look at murals and the 'Peace Wall' (which I'm still not happy about - it looks a right disgrace) and people can still enjoy the modern, upbeat atmosphere of the city centre. That's what Dublin could be doing. Yes, it has Grafton Street, but it also has a good many other fecking Georgian houses, they can spare to lose one or two.

The fact that Bono and Edge are in on this proposal is just too good an opportunity to pass up for some people. And, in fact, I'm not entirely convinced it isn't their modus operandi to try and defame one of their own (history repeating itself: Oscar Wilde, anyone?) because they're easy targets.

Reasons to be cheerful, 1, 2, 3 :rolleyes::

1. 'Bono, floatin through town at night with his tinted wraparound goggles, won't even be able to tell the difference'

2.'Bono...Aah yes. A man renowned for his 'good, reasoned argument'.'

3. 'I don't want to put a xenophobic swing on this but is anyone else just a wee bit miffed that Sir Bono gave this commission to Foster?... Mind you, I suppose tired old Knights who's stars are waning should probably stick together.'

Notice how it's Bono. Not Bono and Edge, just Bono. It's like the people who think Bono IS U2. Fecking idiots.

I, for one, am happy this rejuvenation of Dublin is going ahead. It'll look out of place for a while, but then the rest of the Liffey (or a good bit of it, anyway) is going to get in line with modernisation and then we can all realise that it might not do the city as much harm as these eejits seem to think.

Half of them don't even realise the top bit of it's meant to be the 'environmentally friendly' approach, and just look at it as something stuck on the top for the fun of it.

How long has this been out, anyway? I recall knowing this information at least a month ago. They sure have taken their time to respond...and the critics will say this is Bono's way of trying to stay in the media spotlight. Again.

[/rant]
 
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^Something like in America they say, "I want to BE that :censored: on the hill" and in Ireland they say, "I'm gonna GET that :censored: on the hill."

Anyway, yeah, I didn't know Larry and Adam were owners at one time, too.
 
evillaurd said:
How long has this been out, anyway? I recall knowing this information at least a month ago. They sure have taken their time to respond...and the critics will say this is Bono's way of trying to stay in the media spotlight. Again.

[/rant]

I posted the following article here in PLEBA on January 16th, so over two months ago. The above article is from this week's Sunday Independent. Note my (rather prescient) comment at the bottom, LOL.


Developer joins U2 stars in EU150m Clarence project

Irish Times, January 16, 2007

Frank McDonald


Dublin's Clarence Hotel, owned by U2's Bono and the Edge, in partnership with property developer Paddy McKillen, is to be redeveloped at a cost of EU150 million as "one of the most spectacular city hotels in Europe".

The scheme, designed by international architects Foster and Partners, is to be submitted shortly to Dublin City Council. It would incorporate the former Dollard printing works and four Georgian buildings on Wellington Quay.

Only the quayside facades of the existing hotel and adjoining buildings - all of which are protected structures - would be retained, although the oak panelling from the Clarence's Octagon Bar is to be salvaged for re-use.

The rear elevations of the hotel and adjoining buildings on East Essex Street would be demolished in their entirety and replaced by a undulating glazed facade, with shops and cafés at street level and bedrooms above.

The existing hotel, which has only 34 bedrooms, has lost up to EU12 million since its refurbishment 10 years' ago. Bono (Paul Hewson) and the Edge (David Evans) were advised to sell, but decided to bring Mr McKillen on board.

They set up the Clarence Partnership, which is split 50-50 between the two U2 band members on the one hand and Mr McKillen on the other. His largest project in Dublin to date has been the Jervis Centre on Mary Street.

A hotel for the past 140 years, the new Clarence will have 114 bedrooms and 28 suites, if planning permission is granted for the project. It will also have a 1,360sq m (14,640sq ft) spa - the first on this scale in central Dublin.

Andy Bow, a senior partner in Norman Foster's practice, said the new hotel would be organised around a "skycatcher" atrium - shaped like an elongated hourglass - rising from a 25-metre swimming pool in the basement to the roof.

An elliptical canopy with a reflective surface - a "white hovering halo", as Mr Bow described it - would cover the structure, uniting its different elements, and this would be topped by a fully-glazed "skyroom" with panoramic views.

The development will incorporate a number of sustainability strategies, including natural light and ventilation, to ensure that it will function as an energy-efficient and environmentally sensitive mixed-use hotel, spa and conference facility.

Mr Bow said the city council's planners were "hugely supportive" of the scheme, while conservationists were also positive. "There's a sense that people think it would be great to have a 21st century hotel like this in Dublin."

Norman Foster described it as "an ambitious project - architecturally and structurally [ that] presents an exciting opportunity to regenerate Temple Bar's river frontage, while also creating a bold new addition to Dublin's skyline."

© 2007 The Irish Times



There's been talk of this for a couple of years now; it sounds like an exciting project. Maybe this huge investment into Dublin's core will somewhat muffle the tax-related hatred (but probably not).


Here's a link to the original thread: http://forum.interference.com/t171764.html
 
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biff said:
From the Sunday Independent: another group of people joining the queue of U2-haters:


"Unfortunately for its owners, the Clarence Hotel is not a pair of sunglasses or a hat," says Michael Smith


That reply sounds like it came from a 2-year old, not a grown up. That´s a bad start to defend your position.
 
Re: Re: Some more people pissed off at U2 (what a surprise)

Niamh_Saoirse said:



That reply sounds like it came from a 2-year old, not a grown up. That´s a bad start to defend your position.

exactly! and I'm honestly wondering for how many decades we're gonna hear these completely ridiculous arguments :rolleyes: bravo miss Cashman, mission accomplished!
 
Re: Re: Some more people pissed off at U2 (what a surprise)

Niamh_Saoirse said:



That reply sounds like it came from a 2-year old, not a grown up. That´s a bad start to defend your position.
That's what I was thinking as I was reading it. People are sounding really bitter these days, like they're twisting any situation into an excuse to attack U2 personally. It's getting to the point where people are going to say "You know why I don't like Bono? Cause he's Bono :tsk:"
 
biff said:
Other objectors include An Taisce, which says the proposal is completely inappropriate for both the protected structures and their historic city-centre location, and the Irish Georgian Society, which believes that the development would dwarf adjoining buildings and dominate the Liffey quays.

An Taisce and the Irish Georgian Society have raised some very valid points here, which hopefully will carry weight when the decision is made.

That is my opinion speaking as someone who actually

(a) pays taxes in Ireland
(b) is a citizen of Dublin city
(c) has not and will not be accepting any honours off of a foreign queen
 
Re: Re: Some more people pissed off at U2 (what a surprise)

financeguy said:


An Taisce and the Irish Georgian Society have raised some very valid points here, which hopefully will carry weight when the decision is made.

That is my opinion speaking as someone who actually

(a) pays taxes in Ireland
(b) is a citizen of Dublin city
(c) has not and will not be accepting any honours off of a foreign queen

sorry but your a and c points make me considering your argument as completely invalid

I'm NOT going to have this bloody discussion again, I'm just asking you to stop spreading LIES and GET OVER THE FUCKING KNIGHTHOOD :banghead:
 
Re: Re: Re: Some more people pissed off at U2 (what a surprise)

Galeongirl said:


sorry but your a and c points make me considering your argument as completely invalid

I'm NOT going to have this bloody discussion again, I'm just asking you to stop spreading LIES and GET OVER THE FUCKING KNIGHTHOOD :banghead:

:shifty:


Ummm...what?

I think I have missed a few threads.lol.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Some more people pissed off at U2 (what a surprise)

Niamh_Saoirse said:


:shifty:


Ummm...what?

I think I have missed a few threads.lol.

:rolleyes: he's one of those bitter irishmen who believe every piece of crap the Irish press writes.... aka the whole U2 move a PART of their business to Holland to AVOID PAYING NEW TAXES ... in the irish papers this translates as u2 avoid paying taxes.... which is a big effin lie and I have had enough of the whole bullshit :madspit:



the other part is that some :rolleyes: people are annoyed because Bono :ohmy: oh noez he's Irish and accepting a BRITISH honour, aka teh knighthoodz! Noez he shallt not acceptz that cuz he's Irish!
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Some more people pissed off at U2 (what a surprise)

Galeongirl said:


:rolleyes: he's one of those bitter irishmen who believe every piece of crap the Irish press writes.... aka the whole U2 move a PART of their business to Holland to AVOID PAYING NEW TAXES ... in the irish papers this translates as u2 avoid paying taxes.... which is a big effin lie and I have had enough of the whole bullshit :madspit:



the other part is that some :rolleyes: people are annoyed because Bono :ohmy: oh noez he's Irish and accepting a BRITISH honour, aka teh knighthoodz! Noez he shallt not acceptz that cuz he's Irish!

Try it in English.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Some more people pissed off at U2 (what a surprise)

financeguy said:


Try it in English.

Try notifying sarcasm implied in writing style... aka, the omgnoez stuff was on purpose because a lot of Irish people make a BIG problem out of completely NOTHING!
 
Re: Re: Some more people pissed off at U2 (what a surprise)

financeguy said:




That is my opinion speaking as someone who actually

(a) pays taxes in Ireland
(b) is a citizen of Dublin city
(c) has not and will not be accepting any honours off of a foreign queen

(a) So does Bono. And The Edge. Besides income tax, I'm sure they also pay taxes on The Clarence.

(c) So no sir financeguy then? :hmm:
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Some more people pissed off at U2 (what a surprise)

Galeongirl said:
Try notifying sarcasm implied in writing style... aka, the omgnoez stuff was on purpose because a lot of Irish people make a BIG problem out of completely NOTHING!


What are your views on An Taisce, the Irish Georgian Society?

Are you familar with the work of these organisations, as I am?
 
Re: Re: Re: Some more people pissed off at U2 (what a surprise)

kellyahern said:
(a) So does Bono. And The Edge. Besides income tax, I'm sure they also pay taxes on The Clarence.

I am aware that Bono and Edge pay taxes.

I was simply pointing out that I, also, pay taxes in Ireland (unlike some contributors to the thread, for example).
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Some more people pissed off at U2 (what a surprise)

financeguy said:


I am aware that Bono and Edge pay taxes.

I was simply pointing out that I, also, pay taxes in Ireland (unlike some contributors to the thread, for example).

I used to pay taxes in Ireland too and just let me say it reduced my wages considerably.

On another note, let´s not be hypocrites: nobody likes paying taxes, even those who have tons of money. I mean, I´m not saying they are avoiding paying taxes ´cus I don´t even know if that´s true (and to be honest I don´t care), but if I were given the chance to move my business to some other place where I wouldn´t have to pay as much as I do in Ireland, I´d do it in a heartbeat.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Some more people pissed off at U2 (what a surprise)

financeguy said:



What are your views on An Taisce, the Irish Georgian Society?

Are you familar with the work of these organisations, as I am?

So where was the Irish Georgian Society back when Bono and Edge saved the Clarence from the wrecking ball, eh? :eyebrow:
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Some more people pissed off at U2 (what a surprise)

financeguy said:


I am aware that Bono and Edge pay taxes.

I was simply pointing out that I, also, pay taxes in Ireland (unlike some contributors to the thread, for example).

I'm sorry, I got that wrong then...

but does it matter where you are paying taxes? wether it's Ireland or england or holland or america or whatever? we're all paying taxes, and some are paying a little mroe than others.. The fact that you pay taxes in Ireland doesn't give you more rights than us!

And what does it matter in this case :huh: I don't get that... yes you are paying taxes in Ireland... and what does that have to do with the Clarence?
 
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