Perhaps it's time for Rick Rubin

[Registered Dude]

I think U2 are gearing up to head back into the studio with Rick Rubin.

Edge on Rubin: "He gave us great advice as much as anything. His whole thing is, 'Don’t go near the studio until you know exactly what you want to do', which, of course, is the opposite of how we usually work."

We know how Rubin works.. avoid tinkering, re-writing, etc in the studio. Just go in, nail the take, and try to capture the essence of the song in as little time as possible.

I think U2 will - like it or not - avoid the NLOTH approach.. ie get lost in the music, see where it takes them. record and record until they can't not release an album.

They will not ignore however, that NLOTH was successful when they didn't overwork the song.. MOS, Cedars, the title track... all great pieces that stayed with them from the earliest incarnations of the album sessions. Here, they actually trusted their instincts, and let great songs be.

I'm betting they will also avoid the "arthouse" style of song they think made this album supposedly inaccessible. (whether or not this is the case is another argument)

As we know.. they've 4-5 songs in the bag that will likely appear on the next album. North Star, Mercy, EBW, Glastonbury, and maybe BFFTS They've also been writing regularly for much of this year and I think it's fairly safe to say they have an album's worth of songs ready to record.

With Rubin, they will get songs recorded quickly. Rubin will discourage extensive rewrites. He will tell them what works, what doesn't.

With Rubin they will produce an album of direct, straightforward songs, that will likely be easy to digest. (like it or not)

With Rubin, they will get a fair bit of media attention.. "U2 team up with Rubin" headlines... plenty of free hype.

With Rubin, we're more likely to get an album with 11-12 songs that can all be played live.

We also know they're keen on returning to work with Rubin.

at best, we'd get a U2 record with little artifice that captures the essence of the band, right now.

what think you?

food for thought:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/magazine/02rubin.t.html?_r=1

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i'd love to see it as i love rick rubin... i do think that if it ever will happen it'll happen now, but i still wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[LemonMelon]

Q: What happens when you strip down U2?

A:

Also, you probably get another Bomb, which would be lame.

 

[Registered Dude]

Also, you probably get another Bomb, which would be lame.

Bomb aint stripped down, Bomb is forced

 

[LemonMelon]

Not in U2's eyes. It's their return to the Boy era, remember?

 

[U2girl]

I would enjoy Rubin over Eno/Lanois/Lillywhite right now. If he can deliver for U2 the way he did for J. Cash, Metallica, Neil Diamond etc...bring it on. U2 did hint they'd return to working with him (someday) and we know he did say his wish is to work with U2.


No, it would not be "another Bomb".

 

[Registered Dude]

Not in U2's eyes. It's their return to the Boy era, remember?

I know.. which is very much worth a

but I'd like to think they recognize the weaknesses of that album, in hindsight.

they did after all, turn to Rubin for the follow up.

 

[LemonMelon]

they did after all, turn to Rubin for the follow up.

And, from those sessions, created what we know today as the '06 beach clips. The sessions Boy Falls From The Sky comes from. That's a great song, but I fail to see how it invalidates my fears for a Rick Rubin-produced album. Especially when The Saints Are Coming is another of the tracks.

If there's anything that the '00s taught us, it's that, though a band may be able to rock, it doesn't mean that they should. U2 rockers from this decade include:

Elevation
Love You Like Mad
Vertigo
Love And Peace Or Else
All Because of You
Crumbs From Your Table
Native Son
Are You Gonna Wait Forever?
No Line On The Horizon
Get On Your Boots
Stand Up Comedy
Breathe
Return of the Stingray Guitar
Glastonbury
Boy Falls From The Sky

Which is, you must admit, pretty damn spotty. Also, the high regard for the unreleased tracks tells me that people are likely imagining what a Rubin-produced album could be like, rather than looking at what the more "stripped down" U2 songs actually turn out to be.

Now, for those who assume Rick Rubin won't be moving U2 toward a rawk direction, here are the some of the recent albums he's produced:

Kid Rock - Born Free
Linkin Park - A Thousand Suns
Gogol Bordello - Trans-Continental Hustle
Slayer - World Painted Blood
Pete Yorn - Back & Fourth
Metallica - Death Magnetic
Weezer - The Red Album
Poison - Poison'd!

I mean, I could go back another 20 years and paste another 40 albums just like these, but the example everyone will trace back to is Johnny Cash's American Recordings series. But the only time comparing Cash to U2 could have made sense is, when, during the Rattle And Hum era? And I don't think anyone is wishing for a sequel to Love Rescue Me.

If you want stripped-back while retaining the U2 sound and spirit, I would think having the brains behind The XX's debut (I believe it was self-produced) makes a lot more sense. Think of an album of low-key, contemplative numbers like Heartland, MOS, Bad or the MDH soundtrack material that dials it back while focusing on Bono's vocals and the interplay of the rhythm section, with Edge creating all the textures and soundscapes himself. That, to me, sounds like a terrific idea.

 

[zoopop]

U2 just needs to hire "The Doves" to produce..

 

[super fly guy]

Why do peope bad mouth the bomb? Its a great album!

 

[U2girl]

we'd get a U2 record with little artifice that captures the essence of the band, right now.

It wouldn't be, nor would U2 ever make, a full on "rawk" album.

 

[Registered Dude]

Now, for those who assume Rick Rubin won't be moving U2 toward a rawk direction, here are the some of the recent albums he's produced:

Kid Rock - Born Free
Linkin Park - A Thousand Suns
Gogol Bordello - Trans-Continental Hustle
Slayer - World Painted Blood
Pete Yorn - Back & Fourth
Metallica - Death Magnetic
Weezer - The Red Album
Poison - Poison'd!

I don't think Rubin will push them toward this sort of "rawk".. he's going to work with what he's given. granted, U2 have been stumbling toward a rock record for much of this decade, and recently have hinted that a rock record is one of their focuses..

my point is that Rubin seems an obvious choice for the band right now.. given what songs they've got under their belts, and how I think they plan on approaching the next record, he would be the safe - and maybe smart, bet.

and with any luck, he'll tell them to scrap Glastonbury..

 

[God Part III]

Brian Eno is essential.

I don't trust a U2 album unless Eno is on there. Eno's track record with U2 is perfect, save for Rattle and Hum maybe, but the problem with that record doesn't lie in production, but in concept.

Seriously, Eno, for me, is the fifth member of U2.

here are the some of the recent albums he's produced:

Kid Rock - Born Free
Linkin Park - A Thousand Suns
Gogol Bordello - Trans-Continental Hustle
Slayer - World Painted Blood
Pete Yorn - Back & Fourth
Metallica - Death Magnetic
Weezer - The Red Album
Poison - Poison'd!

I hate every artist on that list as well.

 

[Niceman]

Rick Rubin produced License to Ill, in my opinion one of the best albums ever recorded.

Also, I think there's a logical error being made here. Rubin didn't WRITE the Saints are coming, Window in the Skies, or BFFTS. Whether those are good songs or not falls completely on U2's shoulders! The Rubin sessions were aborted. I don't think we can judge the effect he would have on a full album/era of U2 by these tracks - for good or ill.

 

[Registered Dude]

Also, I think there's a logical error being made here. Rubin didn't WRITE the Saints are coming, Window in the Skies, or BFFTS. Whether those are good songs or not falls completely on U2's shoulders!

 

[PookaMacP]

I don't think Rubin will push them toward this sort of "rawk".. he's going to work with what he's given.

Exactly what I was thinking. I was worried that he'd bring them in that direction back in 2006, but to my ears 'Window in the Skies' is one of the best five songs they did in the 2000s, and has none of that 'rawk' element.

and with any luck, he'll tell them to scrap Glastonbury..

Please, oh please.... That would be Rubin's greatest gift. What a terrible song.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

And I say that as, in general, a big Rubin fan. I think he's the exact opposite of what they need.

 

[U2girl]

Rick Rubin produced License to Ill, in my opinion one of the best albums ever recorded.

Also, I think there's a logical error being made here. Rubin didn't WRITE the Saints are coming, Window in the Skies, or BFFTS. Whether those are good songs or not falls completely on U2's shoulders! The Rubin sessions were aborted. I don't think we can judge the effect he would have on a full album/era of U2 by these tracks - for good or ill.

And the much maligned Saints isn't even a U2 song. It means absolutely nothing for a U2/Rubin record.

 

[AEKU2]

Brian Eno is essential.

I don't trust a U2 album unless Eno is on there. Eno's track record with U2 is perfect, save for Rattle and Hum maybe, but the problem with that record doesn't lie in production, but in concept.

Seriously, Eno, for me, is the fifth member of U2.



I hate every artist on that list as well.

Jimmy Iovine produced Rattle and Hum

 

[U2girl]

Brian Eno is essential.

I don't trust a U2 album unless Eno is on there. Eno's track record with U2 is perfect, save for Rattle and Hum maybe, but the problem with that record doesn't lie in production, but in concept.

Seriously, Eno, for me, is the fifth member of U2.

Eno also wanted to erase Streets, have MOS as the lead single and was the instigator behind Passengers. (edit: and vastly overhyped Winter)



He did a lot for them over the years, obviously - with Lanois - but they didn't bring out the goods for NLOTH.

He's busy with Coldplay, and Lanois is recovering from that motorcycle crash, and according to internet, on 3 February 2010, Amy Lee of Evanescence announced on her Twitter that Lillywhite will be producing their upcoming third album, which is expected to be released in late 2010.[2] On 25 May 2010, the official Oasis website announced that Lillywhite was working with Liam Gallagher, Gem Archer, Andy Bell and Chris Sharrock on material for their new band Beady Eye.

The trio doesn't seem to be available. Another hint at someone new producing the next album ?

 

[powerhour24]

U2 just needs to hire "The Doves" to produce..

They're actually just called Doves, but man wouldn't that be a dream team? Of course it would take 8 years instead of 4 considering how slow both bands are, put them together and see what happens.

As for Rubin, hell no. The man is a glorified recording engineer, not what we need to see a new creative vein for U2. They already have plenty of creative material they could release, so a producer isn't the issue so much as getting them and Paul McG over their fear of the marketplace.

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

Eno is NOT essential to U2...not now at least. U2 needs to find their feet again and do what they do best: make big songs that take you somewhere. The last two albums haven't done that at all. NLOTH was an attempt to recreate some of the magic that the Joshua Tree's imagery provided, but, like Pop, it was forced. You can't force magic...

The Bomb was just a scattering of songs, produced by different people with no real cohesion...the songs were pretty good (much like Pop) but, to me, they were just thrown on a CD and called an album.

I agree with Registered Dude...Rubin will have them record the songs and then choose the best ones and not allow them to overwork the songs...just allow them to breathe.

 

[powerhour24]

Brian Eno is essential.

I don't trust a U2 album unless Eno is on there. Eno's track record with U2 is perfect, save for Rattle and Hum maybe, but the problem with that record doesn't lie in production, but in concept.

Seriously, Eno, for me, is the fifth member of U2.

Lanois is the 5th member, he's the one who is more of a songwriter/producer whereas Eno's adds atmosphere and misunderstands the marketplace (wanting to erase Streets, insisting the Linear-version of Winter was a winner, etc). Notice that AB is credited to Daniel Lanois with Eno (on certain tracks). In terms of writing, I'd much rather listen to a Lanois album than and Eno one. I'm not discounting the contribution he's made (he'd be the 6th member!) but I think he gets far more credit than Lanois, and even The Edge/Bono sometimes.


As for who will get the producer credit should they go back and record their current material, my guess is Declan Gaffney who's been their go-to mixer during the past 2 years.

 

[powerhour24]

Eno is NOT essential to U2...not now at least. U2 needs to find their feet again and do what they do best: make big songs that take you somewhere. The last two albums haven't done that at all. NLOTH was an attempt to recreate some of the magic that the Joshua Tree's imagery provided, but, like Pop, it was forced. You can't force magic...

I wouldn't say that NLOTH was forced, I'd say it was watered down, listen to the behind-the-scenes clips when they were recording in Morocco, that was real, they just felt the need to over-work it in post-production.

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

I wouldn't say that NLOTH was forced, I'd say it was watered down, listen to the behind-the-scenes clips when they were recording in Morocco, that was real, they just felt the need to over-work it in post-production.

What I mean is U2 went looking to 'capture' or 'recapture' whatever magic they thought they were missing...not saying that music isn't interesting or even good, I just feel that sometimes U2 gets caught up in wanting to make 'this' or 'that' album...they should just write songs and record them and then figure out what works best in the context of an album.

The Joshua Tree is a great example of this. They have a nearly complete 'other' album of GREAT songs, that didn't fit the cohesiveness of the eventual album. Rubin takes them back to that approach, I believe.

 

[U2girl]

NLOTH would benefit from a little more force and a little less of "getting lost in the music".

 

[powerhour24]

What I mean is U2 went looking to 'capture' or 'recapture' whatever magic they thought they were missing...not saying that music isn't interesting or even good, I just feel that sometimes U2 gets caught up in wanting to make 'this' or 'that' album...they should just write songs and record them and then figure out what works best in the context of an album.

The Joshua Tree is a great example of this. They have a nearly complete 'other' album of GREAT songs, that didn't fit the cohesiveness of the eventual album. Rubin takes them back to that approach, I believe.

No thanks, I like when they actually go for a concept (like Zooropa) not a collection (like ATYCLB)... it's just that they've gotten gun-shy about releasing it.

No we get concepts that get half-assed or overcooked by the time they get released:

The Bomb: U2 as garage guitar rock band in introspective mode (modern day Boy)
NLOTH: Album of 'future hymns'

(SOA: Meditative concept album on pilgrimage)

I want to see them be brave and release what they conceived of without worrying about the marketplace like what they did with TUF-Pop, that practice didn't always produce a diamond record, but it never worried about what the mainstream was doing/would accept.

 

[U2girl]

NLOTH merely tries to have a concept...as do all the post-Zooropa releases.
Incidentally also the last album that didn't require a delay in its release...

 

[powerhour24]

Well, the songs from the time where the album was referred to in that way fit the concept... while some of the later-written stuff does not, so that strikes me as watering down the concept, not pretending there was one.

 

[Salome]

if people really think that after about 30 years in the business people like Eno, Edge, Larry, Lanois, Bono, Adam, Lillywhite need to be told how the music business works or how they obviously can't separate Art from commercial fodder then perhaps we shouldn't discuss anything music related in this forum