Obama General Discussion, vol. 4

[Moonlit_Angel]

BUSH is not running
BUSH is not running
BUSH is not running

I really dont see why this is so hard?

Yeah, I'm fully aware of that.

But no matter who's in office, the fact remains that people will look back to the president previous and what they left behind and compare it to the current scenario. Add in that some people criticize Obama for continuing Bush era policy and it makes sense the guy's name is going to come up. Obama is trying/not trying to clean up a mess of a situation. Who made that mess? The person who was last in office (hell, some people are even willing to go further back than that-I've seen people blame our current economic woes on things that happened 20, nearly 30 years ago).

You cannot look at economic situations strictly in a current form. You HAVE to look at the past to understand how we got here and how to fix it.

Of course i remember your earlier posts. And I told you then and i will tell you again, im not talking about YOU or YOUR family. I thought we cleared that up. Still, the problem remains, it deserves to be mentioned.

I dont have time to respond to anything else as you have written a very long post. Im just saying that right now to get it out there, please dont be offended.

Take care

I know you're not targeting it at me specifically, but I'm sorry, it still bothers me nonetheless. I'm just tired of people going after those on welfare, and talking about how some people don't pay taxes-as anitram pointed out, some of them are underemployed and can't because their job doesn't pay them enough to DO so. I'm underemployed. If we go by the definition of what income level constitutes "poverty" that has been stated in statistics and such, my mom and I qualify for that. I don't consider us poor, mind, not in the way most people perceive poverty, but we sure as hell aren't making a whole lot of money. So it's going to be harder for us to pay much, if anything, in taxes, because our jobs make it hard for us to do so. It's not that we don't want to, it's that we CAN'T.

And so when I hear about "job creators", or the rich, whining about paying a bit more, I want to just tell them to shut the fuck up. That is why so many people get angry with them, and it floors me that some people out there think rightfully complaining about the rich refusing to pay more is some sort of BS "class warfare" attack or something.

And don't even get me started on the "drug testing" thing. I remember "The Daily Show" did a brilliant bit on that very topic a while back...I may have to put that clip in here, I think it's worth seeing.

You're not targeting me specifically, but you keep bringing up that "Obama bucks"/"lazy"/etc. type argument, and it's just really irritating, because I hear it enough from politicians. I hear politicians say, "Oh, all we have to do is teach these people how to work and that'll solve everything!" as if we're too stupid to figure out how.

We know how to work. We ARE working. And we're not seeing much payoff in it. And the Republican Party decide to spend their time freaking out over abortion and birth control instead of coming up with decent economic ideas that DON'T involve more tax cuts for the rich and refusal to cut defense spending and so on.

I apologize if my post got ranty, but I think I am entitled to be bothered by the constant line of argument about people on welfare and not paying enough or anything in taxes. It's up there with the continued "women wars". Let's lay off targeting certain groups of voters and whatnot and start talking about fixing things for everyone for once.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

I suppose they could keep the drone as a trophy and some sort of moral victory for their regime. Or they could sell it to the Russians, Chinese. Or just have it reverse engineered and use it to spy on and possibly harm Americans.

No of course they don't have to give it back. Just like we don't have to persuade Israel not to attack them either. I forget, what was the good option again?

Are you just trolling?

 

[Irvine511]

​

I know you're not targeting it at me specifically, but I'm sorry, it still bothers me nonetheless. I'm just tired of people going after those on welfare, and talking about how some people don't pay taxes-as anitram pointed out, some of them are underemployed and can't because their job doesn't pay them enough to DO so. I'm underemployed.

we can all note that these sweeping "LAZY MOTHERFUCKERS" arguments fall to pieces when we apply them to actual individuals. essentially, Mrs. Garrison has said, "not you, you're one of the good ones" when the reality is that MOST people are "one of the good ones" and MOST people are just like you.

so keep posting and explaining.

maybe you'll chip away at this under siege mentality and stop Americans from the middle-class, working-class, and poor to all stop hating one another. because that's how the Romneys of the world control you -- they get you to hate one another.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Thanks, Irvine .

I can safely say my list of people I could say I'd "hate" would be very, very small. There are people who make me angry, yes. There are people I wouldn't dare say I'm fond of in the slightest. But I refuse to give into the "hatred" mentality anymore than I have to. So if that's the plan from some politicians, they're failing miserably at getting it to work on me, at least. I may not like or agree with someone's politics, but if we have to work together to get something done, wonderful, let's do it and save the partisan crap for later.

There are certainly legitimate criticisms to be made of Obama, absolutely. I have my own, and I will welcome discussion of where he can do better. No president is ever perfect or should be immune from criticism. I hope, should he get a second term, he will learn from any mistakes he's made thus far and will come out swinging in the next four years.

But even if Obama isn't as strong on this issue as he should be, again, I at least get the feeling he is trying and does actually care-I feel if I were to tell him to his face what my family's been through he would listen and understand and at least see if he could do something to help. I don't really get that sense from some other politicians out there. They either care in the sense that obviously they don't think people should be poor, but also don't really, truly get what it's like for people like me, or I get the feeling they genuinely do not care at all and think we deserve this for some reason or another.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

Fox News Poll: 45 percent approve of Obama, as 83 percent say country still in recession | Fox News

well, some people also think obama's a muslim and that he was born in kenya. just because people think something doesn't make it so. we're not in a recession anymore. it's simple economics, and frankly this poll just shows how uninformed most of america is for things like this. just because people are unemployed or underemployed doesn't mean there's a recession.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

Well, duh.

i guess you're implying they call only registered republicans?

The Fox News poll is based on landline and cell phone interviews with 915 randomly-chosen registered voters nationwide and is conducted under the joint direction of Anderson Robbins Research (D) and Shaw & Company Research (R) from April 22 to April 24. For the total sample, it has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2012/04/25/fox-news-poll-45-percent-approve-obama/

For Release 6PM ET Wednesday April 25, 2012 Methodology

The Fox News Poll is conducted under the joint direction of Anderson Robbins Research (D) and Shaw & Company Research (R). The poll is based on live telephone interviews with a national sample of 915 registered voters, and was conducted April 22-24, 2012. Landline and cell phone telephone numbers were randomly selected for inclusion in the survey using a probability proportionate to size method, which means that phone numbers for each state are proportional to the number of voters in each state. Results based on the full sample have a margin of sampling error of ± 3% Results among subgroups have larger sampling errors, including: Democrats (n = 391) ± 5% Republicans (n = 341) ± 5% Independents (n = 155) ± 8% LV = likely voters Results from Fox News polls before February 2011 were conducted by Opinion Dynamics Corp.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

Are you just trolling?

Is this really necessary?

Some of these comments and personal attacks here are just amazing. Either im 100% on board with this administration or i must be a troll.

You've just made the ignore list

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

well, some people also think obama's a muslim and that he was born in kenya. just because people think something doesn't make it so. we're not in a recession anymore. it's simple economics, and frankly this poll just shows how uninformed most of america is for things like this. just because people are unemployed or underemployed doesn't mean there's a recession.

I will disagree with those who say this president is a muslim or born in Kenya. Clearly he is a christian, he attended that awful church in Chicago for 20 years, as we all know. He might be a bad leader but he's no muslim and he is a citizen, and he's shown his birth certificate so i dont understand the question.

As for whether or not we are in a recession, you can believe what you like. Im not going to change anybody's mind. And if i weren't "trolling" here with my (god forbid) unique viewpoint, then i guess everyone would just assume the world is in great shape. Yeah thats what im going with now....everything is fine....lets just keep it that way

 

[Irvine511]

Do independents only post conspiracy articles and wildly biased opinion pieces from Fox News and call half of the US lazy freeloaders while at the same time collecting government benefits and then ignoring anyone who disagrees with them?

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

Gerald Molen | Obama: 2016 | Documentary | Conservatism | The Daily Caller

Oscar-winning producer comes out of Hollywood’s conservative closet, preps Obama movie


By Taylor Bigler - The Daily Caller 10:58 PM 04/26/2012

Hollywood is known for its overwhelmingly Democratic-leaning population, despite a few high-profile conservative actors like Jon Voight, Kelsey Grammar and Patricia Heaton. But now a closet-conservative producer is coming out, so to speak, to make a film about President Obama.

Oscar-winning producer Gerald Molen, who collaborated with Steven Spielberg on “Schindler’s List,” has been low-key about his conservatism.

In this week’s print edition of The Hollywood Reporter, Molen speaks about his politics and writes about his upcoming documentary with Dinesh D’Souza, “Obama: 2016,” which seeks to unveil the origin of President Barack Obama’s worldview.

Molen says it was more common to be openly conservative in Hollywood’s early days. For conservatives like Bob Hope and John Wayne, political contrarians were nothing out of the ordinary.

But in 2008, Molen saw a shift in the political discourse of Hollywood. ”It was more difficult for conservatives to open up. I don’t know why Hollywood is so monolithic in its liberal politics now,” he said.

“Today, those on the right have a tendency to hide their politics because the left is vindictive. I guess it has hurt some of them in the past, or they wouldn’t hide. All of a sudden, if you disagreed with someone, they’d intimate you’re a racist or intolerant of some people.”

Molen said he is concerned, like many other Americans, about the direction the country is taking. Neither he nor the American public, he insisted, knows much about Obama. While we know the president was a law professor, there are no scholarly articles carrying his name. Molen thinks that the media were soft on Obama, and that is why he wasn’t vetted as intensely as George W. Bush or even John Kerry.

So Molen decided to set out to discover what shaped Obama’s world view.

Molen teamed up with D’Souza, whose book “The Roots of Obama’s Rage” piqued his interest. Molen wrote that “Obama: 2016″ will take a fair and balanced look at Obama’s life and career.

He thinks movies like “Farenheit 9/11″ are more propaganda than documentary, and that Hollywood liberals are using films to perpetuate their political agenda — something that he vows not to do.

“My movie will be the truth,” he said.

“It’s not really a negative take on Obama because both sides are looked at by Dinesh,” Molen explained. “The movie isn’t out there saying you should vote one way or the other; it’s just the truth, a lot of it from Obama’s own words.”

Could “Obama: 2016″ bring Molen another Oscar statuette? The odds are long, but the film comes out in June.

Follow Taylor on Twitter
Read more: Gerald Molen | Obama: 2016 | Documentary | Conservatism | The Daily Caller

 

[Caleb8844]

In Mrs Garrison's defense, it doesn't seem like many people who disagree with him do so respectfully. He just gets flamed.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

In Mrs Garrison's defense, it doesn't seem like many people who disagree with him do so respectfully. He just gets flamed.

thank you for that

 

[Diemen]

Gerald Molen | Obama: 2016 | Documentary | Conservatism | The Daily Caller

I would hardly say that basing a movie on a book by Dinesh "Obama is a Kenyan Colonialist" D'Souza is a good foundation for exploring "only the truth" of Obama's political career.

 

[Irvine511]

Sounds really independent.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

I would hardly say that basing a movie on a book by Dinesh "Obama is a Kenyan Colonialist" D'Souza is a good foundation for exploring "only the truth" of Obama's political career.

One might wait until it comes out to make that determination, or is your mind already made up w/o seeing the movie?

 

[INDY500]

you see?

And if they ignored the problem and defaulted causing their economy to crumble... what would that look like? How would that affect the poor, aged, vulnerable and those truly dependent on government programs?

All the more reason we should act NOW rather than wait until forced to make drastic measures. Unfortunately we're stuck with this for another 8 months:

 

[INDY500]

Pave your own damn roads then, Indy, an print your own money and test your own food.

Believe it or not, pointing out the economic fact that government doesn't create wealth, it merely redistributes dollars from the private economy through taxes or by borrowing from existing capital, does not mean one doesn't recognize the important role that government plays in regulating, refereeing and providing infrastructure to assist commerence.

But erect straw men if you need.

 

[Irvine511]

And if they ignored the problem and defaulted causing their economy to crumble... what would that look like? How would that affect the poor, aged, vulnerable and those truly dependent on government programs?

All the more reason we should act NOW rather than wait until forced to make drastic measures. Unfortunately we're stuck with this for another 8 months:

I'm glad you now agree that the stimulus was absolutely the right thing to do and that you were dead wrong about austerity and putting deficit reduction first.

 

[Irvine511]

But erect straw men if you need.

This from someone who thinks FDA research librarians making $62k a year are the cause of our national debt?

 

[INDY500]

I'm glad you now agree that the stimulus was absolutely the right thing to do and that you were dead wrong about austerity and putting deficit reduction first.

Ahhhhhh, no.

I'll compare Reagan's stimulus-free recovery against Obama's recovery any day of the week.

It's still about the debt.

 

[Irvine511]

Yes because the two periods are totally comparable.

If you'd like to be more like Spain and the UK go ahead and vote for Romney.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

Economic Growth Slows to 2.2% in First Quarter of 2012

Economic Growth Slows to 2.2% in First Quarter of 2012

The U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis reported today that the U.S. economy grew at a compounded annual rate of 2.2% in the 1st quarter of 2012, down from 3% in Q4 2011.

Last month, The Washington Dispatch began tracking the progress of the current recovery against the 1980s recovery.

Since the second quarter of 2009 (the last quarter of GDP contraction), real GDP growth has averaged 2.4% over the last eleven quarters. By comparison, in the eleven quarters following the third quarter of 1982 (the last quarter of GDP contraction resulting from the early 1980s recession), real GDP growth averaged 5.5%, or more than double the current average:

Stalling industrial production, falling demand, rising inventory excesses, and declining labor force participation have all contributed to lackluster growth and continue to expose the U.S. economy to the risk of a "double-dip" recession, a fate the United Kingdom recently succumbed to.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

Chart Of The Day: Change In Q1 American Debt And GDP | ZeroHedge

Chart Of The Day: Change In Q1 American Debt And GDP
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 04/27/2012 09:15 -0400

Gross Domestic Product


Presented without much commentary, because little is necessary: the only ratio that matters for the US economy, the change in US public debt ($359.1 billion) and US GDP ($142.4) in the first quarter, hit 2.52x and rising.
It takes $2.52 in new debt to "buy" $1 of economic "growth"

Source: Debt to the Penny, Commerce Dept

 

[INDY500]

If you'd like to be more like Spain and the UK go ahead and vote for Romney.

How does that even make sense?

 

[Caleb8844]

I'm amused by the logic that says "hey, debt has gotten us into so much trouble, that we can't get out of it without having some hard times. So let's just ignore it. It'll go away."

 

[digitize]

I'm amused by the logic that says "hey, debt has gotten us into so much trouble, that we can't get out of it without having some hard times. So let's just ignore it. It'll go away."

The logic is more an acknowledgment that cycles do exist, and that markets do irrationally (yes, markets can be irrational) pull away from their full structural capacity, which can cause a recessionary spiral without government support. And removing government support right now would make that spiral worse, and cause a giant revenue issue that would likely cause a worse long-term deficit-to-GDP ratio issue. The government has made incredibly irrational policy decisions in times of normal-to-good economic activity, which liberals and conservatives of all stripes stand to be blamed for. These decisions are probably a fairly large part of the debt problem we have now, both directly and indirectly (by promoting overheating that may have deepened the recession), especially coupled with lax regulation. But that still doesn't excuse the fact that reduction of government spending in the face of a weak recovery would be problematic. A year from now may be another story. And I also don't think that I would introduce any more stimulus at this point, or even monetary measures (namely a third round of quantitative easing). But a fiscal tightening? Probably not the best idea.

 

[digitize]

How does that even make sense?

Because Spain (and the rest of Europe) have acted in a far more fiscally conservative manner towards the recession (they are actually in a recession, unlike the US) than the United States has.

 

[Irvine511]

How does that even make sense?

Because Romney believes in austerity.

Except for the rich. And the military.

 

[Caleb8844]

How high should the top tax bracket be?

 

[Irvine511]

It's still about the debt.

no. it's about jobs.