Dreadsox said:My issue is clearly this.....
I do not believe homosexuality is a choice.
I believe that SIN is something we choose to do.
Amen.
Dreadsox said:My issue is clearly this.....
I do not believe homosexuality is a choice.
I believe that SIN is something we choose to do.
Dreadsox said:My issue is clearly this.....
I do not believe homosexuality is a choice.
I believe that SIN is something we choose to do.
Dreadsox said:My issue is clearly this.....
I do not believe homosexuality is a choice.
I believe that SIN is something we choose to do.
80sU2isBest said:
Anything that is used in the opposite way than what God intended is sin. If you agree that God created humans, either through direct creation or even evolution, doesn't it seem that he intended man and women to be the ones who have sexual relations, since they are built that way? Isn't homsexual sex unnatural, biologically speaking?
phillyfan26 said:To sin, you have to consciously or subconsciously understand that what you are doing is wrong.
You have to choose to sin.
80sU2isBest said:
What is sin?
At its very basic meaning, sin is anything that goes against God's holy standards.
So whether you know you've sinned or not makes no impact on whether it was sin.
Now, ask me if I think God holds people accountable for sin if they don't know the difference between right and wrong, and you might be surprised at the answer.
phillyfan26 said:To sin, you have to understand that what you are doing is wrong.
You have to choose to sin.
AEON said:
According to my theology, we are ALL born with a self-centered nature. It isn't a matter of choice, it is our nature.
Only supernatural intervention can transform us into people that live for God and others.
phillyfan26 said:
Sin, in religions that believe in God, is that. If you believe in God, and are considered an adult (having received Baptism and Confirmation), then you are to know what is right and wrong under the eyes of God. If that is how you define it.
If someone makes an interpretation from the Bible that says, like Melon has pointed out, that there is no actual sin for the type of homosexuality that goes on today, then they do not believe they are commiting an act against God or God's word.
Thus it is not a sin.
AEON said:
It seems some are claiming that Paul is not calling out their “specific, twenty first century brand homosexual experience” as evidence that that Bible somehow supports this behavior. In my opinion, this is a great leap of logic.
By this same rational, I can justify ANYTHING I want to do sexually because Paul did not specifically call out the fact that adultery is much different today than it is today, that I am bombarded by images that evoke lust, that I live in a post sexual revolution society, that I am always a few browser clicks away from pornography…etc.
Just because Paul did not call out Melon’s specific circumstance (which is still being debated), does not mean it is condoned.
Irvine511 said:homosexuals have happy and active sex lives, and most of them would tell you that yes, indeed, they do fit together, that they are built that way. and to get a little bit anamotonical, men actually do have a G-spot (like women), only this spot can only be accessed through the anus. seriously. it's the prostate. so it seems to me that if we are to take into account notions of design and "fitting together," something like that must be taken into account.
AEON said:
It isn't a matter of choice, it is our nature.
AEON said:
It seems some are claiming that Paul is not calling out their “specific, twenty first century brand homosexual experience” as evidence that that Bible somehow supports this behavior. In my opinion, this is a great leap of logic.
phillyfan26 said:
Meaning you have to make an adjustment in your original way to live for God and others.
If you don't believe something is a sin that you are naturally inclined to do, such as being homosexual from birth, you will not make an adjustment.
80sU2isBest said:
What is sin?
At its very basic meaning, sin is anything that goes against God's holy standards.
So whether you know you've sinned or not makes no impact on whether it was sin.
phillyfan26 said:But you act like your interpretation of God's Law is everyone's. That's not true.
The differences lie there.
Irvine511 said:
i think this is a great point to talk about. i understand where this is coming from.
i ask you this: was a mouth designed for kissing? we kiss with our mouths, and talk and eat, but were they *designed* for kissing?
homosexuals have happy and active sex lives, and most of them would tell you that yes, indeed, they do fit together, that they are built that way. and to get a little bit anamotonical, men actually do have a G-spot (like women), only this spot can only be accessed through the anus. seriously. it's the prostate. so it seems to me that if we are to take into account notions of design and "fitting together," something like that must be taken into account.
AEON said:
It has nothing to do with whether or not I believe something is a sin or not. God sets the bar (the Law) - I don't.
Ormus said:
In fact, opposition to homosexuality within Christianity is mostly a medieval construction, and we have medieval theologians to thank for homophobia, not the Bible. Considering the nature of medieval Christianity, it is most certainly that the Bible was used as a later justification for their homophobia; and it's from their heritage that we inherited anti-gay sentiments.
.......the Bible has nothing to say regarding same-sex relationships. But, conversely, that means that they cannot condemn what they did not believe existed.
If this were 1500 years ago, groups arbitrarily excluded from religious ideology would merely have created their own religion. And, indeed, this is why we have Islam.
AEON said:
If you can’t see – from a “big picture” perspective, taking everything into consideration (pleasure, “fitting”, child birth, child raising, gender roles…all of it) – that Men are and Women are a better natural fit - then I have to say that you are simply deceiving yourself (or allowing yourself to be deceived).
80sU2isBest said:Anything that is used in the opposite way than what God intended is sin. If you agree that God created humans, either through direct creation or even evolution, doesn't it seem that he intended man and women to be the ones who have sexual relations, since they are built that way? Isn't homsexual sex unnatural, biologically speaking?
BorderGirl said:Trust me, you don't want to go Islam.
And you think Christians are intolerant....
AEON said:I'm sorry - I do find it somewhat ironic that you started this thread with the notion that you could "do without" Christians. That doesn’t quite seem like a very loving attitude to me.
If this is the foundational rule (which it is) - and you don't seem to give it little more than “conveniently placed quoting” status when a theological argument doesn’t seem to be going your way – then how can we take everything else you have asserted on this issue that was built upon your vaporous foundation seriously?
The fact that you quoted Romans 13:8-10, in THIS thread that you started of all places, only demonstrates to me that I think you are playing a game of smoke and mirrors in order to convince a sympathetic public that the Bible in fact justifies your behavior when in actuality - it does nothing of the sort.
Largely synonymous with exaggeration and overstatement, hyperbole is a figure of speech in which statements are exaggerated or extravagant. It may be used due to strong feelings or is used to create a strong impression and is not meant to be taken literally. It gives greater emphasis. It is often used in poetry and is a literary device.
* "I nearly died."
* "He is as big as a house!"
* "I've heard that a million and one times."
* "I will die if no one asks me to dance."
* "I'm so hungry I could eat a horse."
* "She has a brain the size of a pinhead."
* "I told you a million times not to exaggerate."
Ormus said:
In short, homosexuality, along with heterosexuality, bisexuality, and asexuality, are all an integral part of God's creation, and, as such, are completely natural.
BonoVoxSupastar said:You have a tendancy to twist things or miss the point all together. No one said anything about a better "fit", Irvine was just showing there isn't a natural and against nature way.
Ormus said:
I had a particular laugh at this post this morning at work. Fortunately, for you, I draw the line against posting on web forums on work time.
Foremost, allow me to introduce to you to an important literary concept we call "hyperbole."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole
I believe that nathan1977 told the story of how his pastor wore a shirt to a similar degree of my statement. Looking at a Christian pastor wearing a shirt like that, do you really take from that the idea that he truly hates all Christians? He wouldn't be a pastor anymore, if that was true, and, as such, it falls under the realm of hyperbole.
But let's assume, hypothetically, that I really truly wasn't emitting a hyperbole (and one out of frustration, mind you). What does this have anything to do with the point about love that I demonstrated? Nothing. All you'll have demonstrated is that I am not the reincarnation of Jesus Christ and His perfection. You and all conservative Christians tout how you're all sinners, so does that mean if you lie that it means that you're not a Christian? After all, there's a commandment against lying.
I am not a perfect individual, and I never once claimed to be. However, I stand by the wisdom of Romans 13, which I believe I more than clearly demonstrated its importance.
AEON said:
I was only using the argument that you constructed.