Doctor Who and Torchwood

[mobvok]

Yeah well I was wrong about Paul McGann. Glad he got his mini-film, but John Hurt brought the heat.

The best scenes involved sitting in rooms, not weird antics in helicopters or dressing up Gallifrey sets. John Hurt and Billie Piper (!), the three Doctors together, even Jenna Coleman and Hurt. Tom Baker and Matt Smith. Jesus. Everything in that ramshackle farm shed. I thought the solution to the Tower of London cell was the final draft of The Big Bang's "cheat".

There were also antics, and Moffat doesn't have a great tonal sense for things like the military, but whatever. Bring on Capaldi.

Spoiler

 

[Rachel D.]

I started watching Doctor Who last Saturday, starting with the 2005 episodes. Some of my friends are really into it and warned me that season one is pretty bad, which it is, but it's getting better. It's actually funny and the humor reminds me a little of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I'm not going to watch any of the 50th anniversary stuff until I'm caught up.

So, hello, my name is Rachel and I'm a Doctor Who fan now.

 

[lazarus]

Season One isn't consistent, but The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances is one of the best Doctor Who stories, classic or reboot.

The finale's pretty great as well.

 

[mobvok]

I just re-read some of my posts earlier in this thread from 2+ years out and they are terrifying. Ugh.

...Doctor Who is occasionally erratic in quality, but that's just kind of its nature. There are a lot of outright great episodes to keep you busy catching up on, a fair number where the charisma of the actor playing the Doctor sells the episode and keeps it entertaining, and a few out and out stinkers.

The first time through the reboot seasons 1-4 I think I underrated RTD's work a bit since it was in light of Moffat in season 5, but I've rewatched a number of episodes back then and was pretty impressed. If you want a cheat sheet, I'd try some of the reviews from androzani.com. They're not unquestionable, but they're well written and the first few sentences should give you a sense of if it's worth your time.

 

[Rachel D.]

I recently finished Season 1 and watched the first episode of Season 2. The Ninth Doctor didn't last very long, but I like the Tenth so far. It's a lot less cringe-worthy than the beginning of Season 1.

 

[Cactus Annie]

^ That's because RTD is a hack (I'm gonna be hated for saying that on here)

 

[Rachel D.]

Why does the Doctor need to wear glasses? If he can grow his hand back when it gets chopped off, why didn't he regenerate himself some 20/20 vision?

 

[mobvok]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GhY-ds2Kfk

"Trenzalore" is one of those fictional names that just never never will sit right with me.

I hope they don't save meaningful Capaldi scenes for season 8, whenever that starts. I want Matt Smith falling into a trap and Peter Capaldi scheming his way out.

 

[Joey788]

Why does the Doctor need to wear glasses? If he can grow his hand back when it gets chopped off, why didn't he regenerate himself some 20/20 vision?

I think Ten said something like he doesn't need them. He just thinks they make him look clever. Might have been that minisode with Peter Davison.

 

[mobvok]

Saw The Caves of Androzani a few nights ago. My first Peter Davison story, I came away reasonably impressed by him in that it was pretty clear Davison carved out his own distinctive Doctor. Two notable things I liked: first, a good example of Doctor Who working within its limitations. This meant a lot of varied soundstage "cave" dressings, and working out of limited rooms, but while the budget was noticeable I didn't think the story outreached its grasp- everyone's socked away fighting over miserable claustrophobic tunnels, and that's what we saw.

The other element was the outright pessimism about how awful both sides of the Androzani conflict were- by no means should the Doctor have gotten in the middle of this, pulling in his companion as well. He's smart, but that can make his curiosity and incompetence (landing at the wrong time) all the worse.

 

[lazarus]

Weird to start with Davison's last story but glad you liked it. Deserving of its legendary status.

If you're going to hop around, I'd also recommend Castrovalva (though not unless you've seen Baker's finale in Logopolis), Kinda, The Visitation, Arc Of Infinity, Mawdryn Undead, Enlightenment, Earthshock, Resurrection Of The Daleks. And of course The Five Doctors.

Those aren't the only good ones but the stories that first come to mind.

 

[mobvok]

Weird to start with Davison's last story but glad you liked it. Deserving of its legendary status.

If you're going to hop around, I'd also recommend Castrovalva (though not unless you've seen Baker's finale in Logopolis), Kinda, The Visitation, Arc Of Infinity, Mawdryn Undead, Enlightenment, Earthshock, Resurrection Of The Daleks. And of course The Five Doctors.

Those aren't the only good ones but the stories that first come to mind.

Oh yeah, I was just checking Netflix and didn't realize it was Davison's last until about halfway through Androzani, but I ain't no quitter. Thanks for the other recommendations, I'll probably have to start torrent-hopping to snag a few of them. Actually I'm a bit tempted to see the Seventh Doctor- the descriptions I've heard make it sound a bit like Star Trek Voyager, where when there isn't active sabotage from the producers, there's some fascinating episodes.

Like 'The Day of the Doctor' before it, this isn't a story about the whizzes and the bangs or about the monsters, this is a story about the Doctor - and where Steven Moffat does succeed is in bringing the Matt Smith era to a satisfying conclusion.

Bar one point that immediately springs to mind, the showrunner tips his hat to every single dangling plot thread from 'The Eleventh Hour' onwards - some are referenced in passing while others form a major part of the plot.

Read more: Doctor Who: Matt Smith's final episode - Spoiler-free preview - Doctor Who News - TV - Digital Spy
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I'm betting it's too late for Moffat to coherently sweep all the pieces together into a single whole, but I won't mind watching the attempt. The preview goes on to mention that Matt Smith gets a great showcase on his way out the door.

This probably won't happen, but I'd love to see Capaldi show up suddenly about a third of the way in, short-circuiting the standard sort of ramp-up climax where the Doctor dies with 45 seconds left in the episode. I think playing with that structure a bit would be surprising and fresh.

 

[lazarus]

Over the last month I've been DLing entire seasons to fill in the gaps of what I didn't have. Some nice guy put up torrents of every single classic DW season.

So getting what you want shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Joey788]

Actually I'm a bit tempted to see the Seventh Doctor- the descriptions I've heard make it sound a bit like Star Trek Voyager, where when there isn't active sabotage from the producers, there's some fascinating episodes.

If you do, I'd recommend Remembrance of the Daleks, a late period classic. Also, the entire last season is really strong. Sadly it was a case of too little, too late. But those eps are definitely out worth checking out.

 

[mobvok]

So....I guess that worked. A lot of really sharp writing and good parts culminating in the Smith to Capaldi scene, but also, tonally off for good sections. See: 300-years-later voice montages and she's-a-Dalek but now she's not because she wished hard enough! And the whole strange Christmas war with Barnaby And The Dickensian Children. Moffat just doesn't have a great sense about building that kind of tone.

Jenna Coleman is awesome. And I hope Capaldi is a clean start for her without the baggage of the Impossible Girl, because she deserves good things. Fare thee well, Matt Smith.

 

[lazarus]

So....I guess that worked. A lot of really sharp writing and good parts culminating in the Smith to Capaldi scene, but also, tonally off for good sections. See: 300-years-later voice montages and she's-a-Dalek but now she's not because she wished hard enough! And the whole strange Christmas war with Barnaby And The Dickensian Children. Moffat just doesn't have a great sense about building that kind of tone.

Pretty forgettable aside from the changeover.

I preferred The Snowmen a lot more.

At least they didn't drag out out like The End Of Time.

Spoiler

Although it was kind of dumb that all the regeneration fire came spouting out and he still went back to regular Matt Smith.

 

[Rachel D.]

I've just started Season 3, so I'm not even paying attention to all the new stuff that's going on. "Doomsday" made me cry; I didn't like Rose at first, but she grew on me.

I like Daleks. Does that make me a bad person? They're like angry British salt and pepper shakers.

The Torchwood Institute has some great bonsai trees. That has nothing to do with anything; I just like bonsai trees and notice them in TV shows and movies.

 

[Joey788]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TivqZTq5u6Y

I'm really looking forward to Capaldi's take on The Doctor. This trailer looks pretty sweet as well.

 

[Rachel D.]

I'm still watching Doctor Who on Netflix; I watched The Snowmen yesterday. I noticed that they added a few older episodes that weren't there before and the 50th anniversary special, so that's good. I thought I was going to have to watch it on some shifty website once I get caught up with the ones before it.

 

[lazarus]

I loved The Snowmen. Maybe my favorite X-mas episode (not that this is saying much considering the others).

 

[achtungbabe]

Yeah, Jenna Coleman is amazing. I have to agree that The Snowman is the best Christmas one - it was a great introduction to her, even if it wasn't really "her"...

Spoilers to Series 7 here, better safe than sorry...


I didn't like that they split Series 7 in half, with Amy & Rory / Clara, because it didn't seem to serve any purpose. All the other seasons with Eleven had a huge finale that (mostly) tied everything together and blew my mind. I really don't see the point of the first half of the series, because there was no massive ending of Amy and Rory that tied all those episodes together. It was just a mix of random, pointless episodes. (I enjoyed most of them, actually, but they weren't very significant) I wish the Dalek Asylum had been mixed into Series 6 and Clara had the whole Series 7.

And the 50th Anniversary... Jeez. That was crazy. And really, really confusing. I hosted a party and dressed up as Clara (I managed to find the exact dress she was wearing in that episode for fairly cheap) so that was fun. But I had to watch it at least five times to fully understand it.

I haven't watched any Doctor Who at all since the Christmas episode (which I thought was mostly dreadful, though all the characters were amazing.... Wonderful actors/characters cannot make up for horrible writing) so I should probably watch at least Series 7 again before the premiere a week from now...


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[achtungbabe]

Anyone watch the new episode?


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[mobvok]

Agh not yet, I'm much more low key about this season then prior ones for some reason, and the premiere date nearly caught me by surprise when I remembered yesterday. Are they still splitting the season in half?


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[achtungbabe]

Not sure, I only looked as far as Wikipedia, and they only had air dates for the next two episodes. I sure hope not.

The episode was good, vast improvement from the last one.


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[LJT]

The mood of the show does seem to have gotten darker. Capaldi's Doctor comes across much more seriously even when he is messing around.

 

[lazarus]

Jesus, that

Spoiler

Matt Smith cameo

was one of the worst things I've ever seen on DW. A slap in the face to Capaldi and totally condescending to the fans. Not to say that a lot of the young 'shippers aren't going to be complaining about the old guy replacing the old heartthrob, but let them deal with it themselves.

The villain was Moffat basically updating his Weeping Angels and Silents, with not being able to breathe substituting for the previous gimmicks. It was executed well, but lazy writing.

And I don't know what the fuck that was in the epilogue, but it sure seemed a lot like a ripoff of Madame Kovarian. Again, lazy and Moffat mining his own past material for ideas.

Coleman was fucking fantastic. Her showdown with the main baddie was a high point for her, acting-wise.

Capaldi great as expected but hard to judge him until he's settled down into his persona. The last 10 min with him was promising, and the restaurant repartee with Clara was played well.

 

[Kieran McConville]

"Matt Smith's gone now and I'm the fucking Doctor so fucking deal with it."

Children at home burst into tears.

Also his new companion is a homeless bum from London. Oh if only.

 

[mobvok]

I'm on board with your reaction/note list laz, but generally a touch more positive across the board. Strikingly, for a good chunk of the episode Moffat's writing pace was methodical in how a number of scenes breathed (sorry) around a single location. It was a refreshing feeling occasionally hearing Moffat's tangled dialogue flow without the rest of the episode trying to hit a psychotic amphetamine-dosed pace. The flip side was the sluggish action and occasionally weak direction. 12 falling out of a tree, the slow sword fighting where nothing seems to actually be happening, and a real disappointment when the cyborg and 12's taut conversation was interrupted by an unneeded outbreak of physical grappling by the open door.

Clara's tête-à-tête with the cyborg was marvelous, not just for Coleman's standout acting but how it actually leveraged the character's teaching background, like a....character. Damn. I've got a great feeling about Coleman and Capaldi together.

Spoiler

I always thought it'd be a fitting representation of such a temporally tangled character that the actor/actor transition be less abrupt than it's historically been. The concept of 11 reappearing as a knot in the wood has a certain power.

I just wish it wasn't for "pleeeeease love the new guy".

Seriously though, did they intend to hire Kovarian 2.0?

 

[Rachel D.]

I think I'm going to wait to watch Season 8 until it's on Netflix, since I still have to catch up.

I watched "The Rings of Ahkaten" last night. That one was not good at all. So there's a sun monster that eats memories and Clara's leaf gave it indigestion or something...? The one before it was really good, though ("The Bells of St. John").

I have several nerdy friends on Facebook that are writers and also watch Doctor Who (I started watching it because I wanted to see what all the fuss was about), and all they do is complain about it. They overanalyze everything and don't even seem to enjoy it anymore. They remind me of U2 fans, actually.

I was thinking about why I like Doctor Who and why I keep watching it. Despite it having dud episodes now and then, I suppose I keep watching it because it's just fun to watch. It doesn't always make sense, but it doesn't have to. It's like a whimsical fairy tale that is sometimes terrifying, and it shows a lot of creativity and imagination. The Matt Smith era especially has a fairy tale feel to it.

I grew up around sci-fi stuff like Star Wars and Star Trek, but I'm the first Whovian in my family (if I can claim that title at this early stage), so I feel like it's mine somehow. It's my little guilty pleasure that I keep for myself.

 

[achtungbabe]

Seriously though, did they intend to hire Kovarian 2.0?

Exactly my thoughts.... one of my friends has a theory that she could be River Song, because River is still technically alive in the database in that library. The attitude certainly matches, that's for sure.

Despite it having dud episodes now and then, I suppose I keep watching it because it's just fun to watch. It doesn't always make sense, but it doesn't have to.

This is a great attitude to have! I'm actually jealous of it, haha. I was like that the first year or so I started watching, but then I got way too into it...