Canada Votes 2006

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Conservatives in Canada sure are, especially when they are run by the ilk of harper. Also when Canada is probably 65-70% liberal Conservatives seem very scary. The one thing an outsider must relize about Canada is that we have 4 party left of centre and one right or centre. The liberals, ndp, greens and bloc are are left of centre so the vote is split. If harper was out PM we'd be in Iraq, so to that end scary is a good word!
 
Just for you non-conservatives out there, an 8 point lead means nothing.

Had the election been tomorrow, Liberals would still have won simply because many NDP'ers would vote liberal in the 'fear' of a conservative win.

Also, regardless of which government wins, it's likelygoing to be a minority which is bad news. Having a minority makes it extremely difficult for the party in power to execute its game plan. This results in zero progress in either direction.

I still don't understand why theres so little love for the conservatives. Admittedly I'd have preferred if there were more 'PC' cabinet ministers than 'alliance' but other than that i fail to see the major fear.
 
fuck right off with your rape comment.

you're not wanted in this thread, and you bring absolutely nothing to this discussion when you show up.

please don't close this thread, but please delete a_wanderer's ridiculous comments.
 
Iraq
Money wasted on Iraq (hello Americans)
Soldiers dead in Iraq

Shall I go on?

Apart from that, they are repealing the tax cuts that the Liberals gave to the lowest income earners (!!), giving vouchers to hockey moms for children's sports (as if this is going to benefit the lower classes in some way, haha), decreasing the GST which will help absolutely nobody except the billionaires who have billions to spend on a yearly basis. And as for the tax break the are repealing, good news for our low income earners - you'll have to pay it back! That's right, isn't that fabulous news to look forward to.

They will also push their anti-gay marriage agenda regardless of the fact that most Canadians disagree with them and that every other party represented in Parliament disagrees.

A_W - your comment is silly and not constructive. This was actually a reasonably good discussion thread. Whatever.
 
Fundamentally, lowering the GST helps someone who pulls in 10k a year and 10 million a year. It doesnt make a difference.

Also, the liberals are the ones pushing the corporate tax cuts this time around. Which is why I don't understand why everyone is so liberal and anti conservative on this issue.

Iraq, do you really think the conservatives will send soldiers there. Why would they do that given that they win this election by a small margin it would be foolish to shoot yourself in the foot like that.

Gay marriage. The conservatives made it clear that it will be a national vote to decide whether or not the current laws will be upheld. If your claim
They will also push their anti-gay marriage agenda regardless of the fact that most Canadians disagree with them and that every other party represented in Parliament disagrees
Click to expand...
is true then you shouldnt be worried. Most of Canada is still loosely tied to religious roots morally and I honestly believe that should there be an election, the vote would fall as 65% against the title of marriage.

Privatization. Check my link on my first post on this thread.

Child care. Liberals want to instate a system like there is in Quebec all over Canada. Ask any Quebecer who has their child in the 'liberal' child care system and see what they think. Fact of the matter is that theres no space (there are huge waiting lines), the quality is sub par and overall not effective. And this is in a province that receives almost double the funding in that sector than any other province.

My simple watered down belief in the conservative ideology is this.

Do you want to give your money to the government and let them decide how to spend it for you. OR do you want to keep that money and you personally decide how to spend it how you see fit. Less government is better government.

Finally, Canadas conservatives are nowhere near the US in terms of Right wing stance. Hypothetically, if our Conservatives were to run in the US they would be considered radical leftists, which is why any comparison of the US democrats or republicans with our Conservatives is irrelevant, like apples and oranges.

Cheers,
Aaron
 
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The national vote or referendum on gay marriage is a complete waste of taxpayer dollars.

Why do you support it since you seem so interested on keeping most/all of your hardearned money?
 
What difference does it make to me, to you if gays get married? Without sounding too apathetic here, I'm not gay. Let them do what they want.
 
I have nothing against what they do or do not. But I am against having a gay marriage in a church done by a pastor under the eyes of God.

If they figure out or organize another way to 'marry' then so be it. This is obviously the hot button issue of the election. But I'd like to keep this discussion on the more political side of things rather than the religious side if you catch my drift...

cheers,
Aaron
 
djfeelgood said:


First of all, Mulroney was at the helm during the most recent economic recession. You'd have to be a magician to find a government that was able to pull in a surplus. Put a man in the corner theres only so much he can do.

Conversely, Jean Chretien rode the largest economic boom bubble to ever occur. This is why the Liberals were able to eliminate as much debt as they did.

Unrelated but on a similar note, Bill Clinton did the same thing.
Think about it, how could a national figure get away with adultery in front of his entire nation. Only a time of exceptional optimism would cater to this.

Harris took over after Bob Rae steamrolled Ontarios coffers by offering redundant programs which did little to encourage economic growth. He increased welfare wages to the point where it was TOO comfortable to live on welfare, a problem that we still are trying to get rid of. Arguably, you could say he was dealt the same recession card as Mulroney, however the difference is that when in power, the NDP fortified their stereotype as irresponsible spenders.
Click to expand...

I won't deny the recession, etc, but I dislike some of the more recent Conservative policies: GST, education cuts (resulting in the largest teacher strike in Canada, to date, 1997), Harris' placing blame on all governments but his own during Walkerton, and as yyou mentioned, the welfare crisis, the rise in homelessness that resulted from it, drop in revenues, rewriteen labour laws, and tax credits for parents who send their kids to private schools. I'm not saying the Liberals don't have their faults (quite frankly I'm furious with McGuinty cutting things like eye care), but those conservative liabilities lie a little to fresh in my memory.

Although the recession contributed, Mulroney's government was already slipping further into debt before the recession even began.
 
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djfeelgood said:
I have nothing against what they do or do not. But I am against having a gay marriage in a church done by a pastor under the eyes of God.

If they figure out or organize another way to 'marry' then so be it. This is obviously the hot button issue of the election. But I'd like to keep this discussion on the more political side of things rather than the religious side if you catch my drift...
Click to expand...

But isn't it a politcal issue now? It's a civil union, recognized federally (Civil Marriage Act). It's not about religion (unless you count the Metropolitan Community Church of Toronto). Why do you feel this law will impede upon the church? Assuming Catholicism, that't the Vatican's decision.
 
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The comment was a paraphrase from the 2004 US Election by Cameron Diaz, it was just illustrative of the paranoia presented about conservative politicians. The most amusing thing is the hyperbole presented in this thread, one would think that the election of a (minority) conservative government in Canada would cause the entire hemisphere to implode under the weight of evil :|

The demands for censorship by deleting posts also do a bang up job in showing how much respect some people have for free speech.

djfeelgood sterling effort defending the contrarian position.
 
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A_Wanderer said:
The demands for censorship by deleting posts also do a bang up job in showing how much respect some people have for free speech.
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Give us a break mate, your facetious comments were obviously just trolling for a reaction.
 
djfeelgood said:
I have nothing against what they do or do not. But I am against having a gay marriage in a church done by a pastor under the eyes of God.

If they figure out or organize another way to 'marry' then so be it. This is obviously the hot button issue of the election. But I'd like to keep this discussion on the more political side of things rather than the religious side if you catch my drift...
Click to expand...

What are you talking about?

It is clearly established that no church or religious institution can be compelled to marry two men or two women. Some may, of their own choosing, and if your church does it and you don't like it, leave. But the government is not mandating any kind of religious marriage ceremony.
 
Gay marriage is a dead issue, the Conservatives can talk all they like they are only appealing to their base. the law does not make it legal to have gay marriage in any Church!

The GST cut is a attention grabber, though a good one. If they want to do anything with regards to the GST scrap the whole thing.

With regards to Iraq, no i dont think Harper would send our troops now but the fact that he would have been willing to when it started tells me enough about him to predict his future response from a call from the Bush admin.

As far as health care goes, look what is happening in Alberta. Klien has consulting agencies that are looking into privatization. These 'consultants' are insurance companies that stand to make the most off of private health care. Is that what we want in this country insurance companies telling out politcians how out health care should be run? If Harper is not for privatization I fail to see the passion Layton or Marin (to a certain extent) evoke on this issue.

Dont get me wrong, Im not fan of Marin or the liberals, Im more of an NDPer, but at the end of the day a coalition govt with the liberals and the NDP is as close as im going to get to see some of my top priorities get passed.
 
anitram said:


What are you talking about?

It is clearly established that no church or religious institution can be compelled to marry two men or two women. Some may, of their own choosing, and if your church does it and you don't like it, leave. But the government is not mandating any kind of religious marriage ceremony.
Click to expand...

Exactly, if a church permits gay marriage under its roof then it is the decision of that church. Most of the marriages have occured in civil ceremonies.

djfeelgood said:

Fundamentally, lowering the GST helps someone who pulls in 10k a year and 10 million a year. It doesnt make a difference.
Click to expand...

It does make a difference actually. With an income tax cut I have more money no matter how much of it I decide to spend. GST cuts are only going to help me if I decide to spend money.
I also believe that retailers may ever so slowly adjust prices upwards, as they know consumers are used to paying XX amount for an item. I don't trust that they won't try to pick up the difference for themselves. I don't expect the receipt for clothes I buy now, and clothes I buy a year from now to be any different.

I posted this in the Au revoir thread because I would like get a general feel of how people think this election will play out. I am looking more for the way your friends, family & neighbours might vote as opposed to a point by point arguement.

snowbunny00774 said:


Comment to Quebec forumites....I am concerned that Ontario won't pull this one out for the liberals, and was wondering what chance there is of Q giving up some Bloc seats to the libs for fear of a conservative win? any chance?

East Coast - last time Libs lost some ground that had always been a for sure in the past...has that ground been made up and can the Libs depend on it or has the blue tide continued to roll in there - I am also afraid that while the east might have continued to lose faith in the Libs but are not ready to commit to blue, they might turn to the NDP and that will F*** things up in the long run if this is as close as expected. Comments please...

Albertans- If Harper gets the nod, will Klein see this as a gift and personal reassurance from God that he is The Man? I think this more than anything else has me worried about a blue win. I almost feel a blue federal win will actually have more impact on provincial politics in Alberta than any other province. Comments please....

ROWest...I never hear anything from your part of the world except B.C. which by it's nature should be red but I don't know...are people there looking to Alberta for the lead, or what is going on? Again, in BC I am afraid of losing votes to the NDP because people don't want to endorse the scandals that have been happening by giving Martin a majority, but the result might be that he loses enough seats and cannot work a deal with Layton ( who lately appears to have let things go to his head) for a minority.


Something else that bothers me is Harpers little swing towards centre in the run up to the election. In the last few years he has been very outspoken and full of brimstone on some issues, and now seams to have toned down the rhetoic to become gentle Stephen, with "Our Canada" at heart. Do hard core conservatives (or those with conservatives in family- ask them) not feel a little pissed off that he appears to be backing down on a lot of things, or are they safe in the knowledge that he will return to his old self if voted in...just wondering how the image shift has been played out to conservatives...

..answer & comment as you like:yes:
Click to expand...
 
There is a lot talk amongst pundits that people want a change, well, I think the North American leadership will look like Dumb and Dumber if Harpur wins. Whatever happened to leadership in politics, Martin's a doofus too, along with Layton.

Actually I think the smartest people know better to get involved in the greasy world of politics. :wink:
 
Harper has this creepy smile on after every sentence. Has he been watching Dubya's debates?
 
snowbunny00774 said:
Harper looks like he is reading from a teleprompter all the time...weird..
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He's been using one through the entire campaign, in news conferences and the like...:|

I'm listening now through a streamed link. A few observations: Martin's trying to come off as personal, but he appears to be pandering and full of hot (and predictable) air. He makes running the country look like a Canadian Tire ad. Layton seems strong to me, better than predicted. Harper needs his teleprompter.
 
anitram was right, he looks like he has had the left side of his mouth stitched into a permagrin
:wink: <-----Harper

I think Martin was the better speaker, way more comfortable. I think I would feel most comfortable with him represtenting Canada at world meetings. Harper has come a long way but he is still way too scripted and Layton did well but neither of them are people I would like representing Canada on the world stage.
 
I dont know how people think Martin is a good representation of Canada when his company flys flags of other countries!

I would guarentee one thing, if Layton was our leader people would know where he stands because he wouldnt be afraid to tell them.

Havent watched the debate yet, will catch the repeat.

Snowbunny here is my response to your inquiry:
 
The Alberta View:

I;m one of those people you hear stories about, you know, a left leaning Albertan! We are not large in number but we are alive.

Alberta is, and always will be, conservative. They think that if they continue to vote conservative they will be different. They are wrong. Western alienation is self made. They think they are always left out. Well its pretty hard to be included when you refuse to vote for MPs in the ruling gov't.

In actual fact, Klien and Harper dont like eachother very much at all. And Klien is on his way out as some of the leadership hopefuls are doing their best to get him to leave.

One alberta issue is the amount of money we send to Ottawa. Alberta gives more and recieves back less then any other prov. Sure we are flush with money, but it shouldnt be taken to Ottawa to support other. Now thats not my view but most Albertans have that view. I say that we were lucky to have been born in a prov. with so much natural resources, water, oil, lumber, agriculture. But what can you do.

As far as who I'm gonna vote for. My local MP is the genius who thiks we should take over the Turks and Cacos. Idiot! I tend to vote for the candidate not the party. Though this time I dont have enough time to go to the local debates so I'll just be voting on party. I cant vote conservative, after seeing what the alberta conservatives have done in this prov. it would kill me to vote for any right leaning party. As far as the Libs go I dont think I can vote for a man who has his ships under anything but the maple leaf, that is a huge issue with me. I really dont see any huge difference with the Libs and Conservitives. There are maybe 3 or 4 issue that are different but so much of what they are about is the same or fairly close. I am a union man and a strong believer in health care and or fundemental social programs, I actually love the liberals child care program. I will probably end up voting NDP because as far as finace reform goes I'd rather my $1.75 per year go to the NDP. Also they are the only party that supports Proportional Representaion.

So there is the Alberta view, though not the average view. When your friends start saying how albertans are right wing rednecks you make sure to tell them you meet a left leaning albertan and we are all not like Harper and Klien!
 
bonoman said:
I dont know how people think Martin is a good representation of Canada when his company flys flags of other countries!
Click to expand...

Martin heads up an international shipping company, and it's standard industry practice to docket in foreign countries. Harper's trying to make this into a scandal when it's simply common practice in the international shipping industry. what the hell does this have to do with anything, anyway?

this is what drives me insane about election campaigns--dragging irrelevant issues that have nothing to do with the running of the country into the spotlight. the endless mudslinging, the constant bickering has practically replaced the need for a coherent, solid platform. i don't care what you think of the other candidates, i want to know how you and your party are going to go about governing the country. stop trying to distract the electorate with the pissing contest and get down to the issues already.

they're like a bunch of unruly toddlers.

:mad:

it all seems so futile, because we're just going to end up with another minority government and we're going to be headed back to the polls in another year or so.
 
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