mikal
Blue Crack Addict
giggity.
Bono: 'U2 album was too challenging'
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giggity.
ozeeko
Refugee
He seems like he cares a lot actually about the world. Why is he trying to convince us of something? Why is he telling us to find the light in the darkness? If he was preaching about hedonism he'd say just do what you find pleasurable. He wouldn't say every beauty needs to go out with an idiot. He'd say every beauty should go out with whomever pleases them...period. He wouldn't say every sweet tooth needs a little hit. He'd say take as many hits as you need. He wouldn't be talking about change of heart. He'd say do what your heart craves most. And he wouldn't be talking about going crazy if he doesn't go crazy...he'd just go crazy..period. It's an interesting concept, but Bono really didn't do it justice. He didn't even scratch the surface. Instead of preaching about hedonism, he's just saying "be optimistic and try to see the good in the bad"...which is a far cry from saying "forget the world, just selfishly fulfill your desires"
He's not preaching about hedonism. Hedonists don't preach. He's being a hedonist.
ozeeko
Refugee
Then what is he dictating in the song? What's the message? Hedonism rules? Great. Then why all the stuff about climbing mountains, and seeing the truth, and squeezing light out of darkness, and the slow changing of hearts? What does all this have to do with hedonism? And if he was being a hedonist he wouldn't be talking about US, he'd be too busy doing whatever pleases HIM.
Is this song just really about something else altogether but the main character just HAPPENS to be a hedonist, even though nothing in the song is remotely hedonistic nor does it point to anything hedonistic. Can i say the song is written from the point of view of a Sadist? Or a Masochist? Or can i say it's written from the point of view of a Jewish man? Maybe a janitor? Maybe a dentist? Does it matter what the point of view is?
What if Bono said the main character in Vertigo is a Communist? Would that have anything to do with the rest of the song?
I know what you're trying to argue for but i just don't see it. And i never will. And it's Bono talking anyway, the man notorious for hyping things up and spinning them, maybe he just felt like talking about hedonism that day cuz he was reading about it.
Bono's not dictating anything in the song. It's simply there. The hedonist is simply there. The character simply is what is. Bono himself is neither positive nor negative. The character is optimistic towards his life, and his relationships (hence the word us - people close to him). He is shutting out the world, and being as optimistic about the world as he can... his world, the world in his image, that he manufactures around him.
Anyway, this debate is utterly pointless to have, so I'll let you continue to labor under the delusion that Bono totally lied when describing what the song is about, and you can let me labor until my blind-sheep delusions that Bono always plans everything perfectly in advance.
Anyway, this debate is utterly pointless to have, so I'll let you continue to labor under the delusion that Bono totally lied when describing what the song is about, and you can let me labor until my blind-sheep delusions that Bono always plans everything perfectly in advance.
ozeeko
Refugee
Bono's not dictating anything in the song. It's simply there. The hedonist is simply there. The character simply is what is. Bono himself is neither positive nor negative. The character is optimistic towards his life, and his relationships (hence the word us - people close to him). He is shutting out the world, and being as optimistic about the world as he can... his world, the world in his image, that he manufactures around him.
Anyway, this debate is utterly pointless to have, so I'll let you continue to labor under the delusion that Bono totally lied when describing what the song is about, and you can let me labor until my blind-sheep delusions that Bono always plans everything perfectly in advance.
I'm not calling him a liar, i just think if that was his intention then he really screwed it up. That's all. If you didn't read about this somewhere would you ever have even the slightest idea this song was about hedonism? Ten years from now would you have the slightest idea?
It's not that the writing is subtle or anything- It's just not there!
It's like me telling you I Will Follow is about a racecar driver!
"Then why is he singing about his mother?"
"DUDE! He doesn't have to talk about racing cars, he just is one, he is one with racing, the racing is he, and racers don't talk about racing, they just race."
Sorry, but i'm tired and that was the best i could come up with.
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
i still can't believe Bono said that. i also think he's a hypocrite because he doesn't donate all of his earnings to Africa.
discuss.
discuss.
popacrobat
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
not only that, they cheat by using metronome when they play live. bono totally sucks.
An Cat Gav
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
OP
OP
DevilsShoes
War Child
Well I think YBR is trying to do something different, it's a much more ambient and surreal piece, a big emotive crescendo would seem unnatural. It has a separate agenda.
MOS on the other hand is clearly aiming to be albums all-embracing epic ballad. It's vying for a place alongside the likes of Bad, WOWY and One.
Before the record was released we heard a lot about this track and how it was over 7 minutes long and had been recorded in a single, magical take and that it could potentially be the greatest thing U2 have ever done, so I think unrealistic expectations may have played their part, at least for me.
Had I been able to come to the track without the hype, I may well have had a more positive reaction to it. So perhaps I only have myself to blame. Or maybe I just respond better to the obvious.
I know many fans feel that UC is the emotional pay-off to the despair of MOS, but for me I think you need that pay-off in the same song. If Bono starts off scrabbling around in a black hole I like to feel that he's at least fighting his way out of it by the end.
BTW, I love your avatar, I'm a huge fan of that episode myself.
When I first read this article and the one in Rolling Stone where he says something about the fans not being "groovy" enough, I felt it was abit condescending thing to say. However, I also noticed that the arrticle we are addressing in this thread - the snippet about Bono saying that the album was challenging for those brought up on pop music. I have seen that line stop at challenging....which I think comes off alot differently than blaming fans growing up on pop. The album is challenging... it isnt something you just take in on one listen... it also isnt an album for the casual fan or listener, I dont think....so that makes it challenging. Its just not an album that is going to enthrall most people out there who are used to and like more pop music sounds and themes. A few months after NLOTH came out, I was at friends house working on something together...and we popped in some CD's. I have to say, when NLOTH came on...it didnt feel like an album that was reaching non-fans. For me, its an album I like to keep for myself, to listen on my own. I just dont know ..mb its too heavy for those wanting light fluff or more radio friendly depth ala Coldplay or something?
In the end, I just want U2 to remain true to themselves. Of course, they will have to take advice from others...as they did with every album. and possibly make changes. As long as they dont seem like they are begging for the same attention they once had...and just let the music stand on its own, then I think theyll be fine.
Oh...and one more thing... I also have been thinking about a comment Bono made about Eddie Vedder...about him sounding like "he really wants it"...which I take to mean that you can hear in EV new stuff that he isnt shunning the desire for popularity anymore. Hes got the fire in him to go all out again. I dont know, mb Bono is reflecting inwardly as well.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I will never understand this idea. Maybe Bad, but Bad doesn't belong in the same category as WOWY and One. WOWY and One are pure pop ballads through and through. MOS and Bad were never even trying to be pop ballads.
OP
OP
DevilsShoes
War Child
I meant in the sense that those songs are the emotional peaks of their respective albums. They each work as the centrepiece. I don't mean that either were ever intended for radio.
torn vinyl
The Fly
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Eddie Vedder always goes all out, he never stopped. Pearl Jam never made a record that was designed to be unpopular, with the possible exception of Vitalogy...which sold something like 10 million copies. By the time No Code came out, people were sick of grunge, sick of PJ...but then Yield came along (2 or 3 hits), Binaural had no hits but it had some that could have been, Riot Act was just BAD, the S/T record had World Wide Suicide...oh, and there was Last Kiss in 1999. So they have always been popular. The only way they avoided it was in not doing interviews or videos.
Pearl Jam are always hungry to ROCK YOUR ASS.
elevated_u2_fan
Blue Crack Supplier
and sound exactly the same...
gvox
Ghost of Love
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
Ummm...
Nevermind.
so does "don't drop the soap" also apply now when listening to Pearl Jam?
gvox
Ghost of Love
Hey man, everybody's got a hungry heart (apparently).
yes... just breathe sounds almost identical to everything on Ten. there has been no progression whatsoever.
funny how people who don't like a band always use the "sound exactly the same" line... i know a ton of people who don't like u2 who say the same thing about u2.
fact is they're right, and they're wrong at the same time.
djerdap
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
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And I bet you ridicule all those fans of other bands who accuse U2 of the same thing. To put things into perspective for you to notice how silly that statement is.
elevated_u2_fan
Blue Crack Supplier
oh look, it's the Pearl Jam police...
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
i love Pearl Jam. they're one of my top 5 favorite bands of all time, and i even think the majority of their music sounds the same. actually, Riot Act is one of my favorites because i felt that they were going in a different direction.
djerdap
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
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How about No Code and Binaural? Both have very little to do with Ten and Vs, both are pretty major departures for the band. I'm not talking here about radical reinventions (Bowie, U2), but to say that their music sounds mostly the same is... well, silly.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I think starting with No Code, PJ started a disturbing trend of putting songs like Lukin on their albums and then we started to get Brain of J, World Wide Suicide, Got Some, Supersonic etc where PJ try and do punk and it doesn't really work. That part of PJ all sounds alike and I can see how some say it sounds the same. I love PJ, it's just unfortunate they've decided to do more of these songs as they get older instead of less.
gvox
Ghost of Love
Hey, vanilla can get kinda boring after a while...or so I've heard.
U2DMfan
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Binaural was a departure for PJ, in that it was their first shit album.
It started with Spin the Black Circle, really.
And you're right, it has continued to get worse.
"we are so raw and punk, can you tell yet?"
but I think Headache is right, it's both right and wrong.
PJ are quite derivative in some spots, but not totally across the board.
It helps that they are still good and often great.
But yeah, I hate most of their songs in the Spin The Crap Circle vein.
It started with Spin the Black Circle, really.
And you're right, it has continued to get worse.
"we are so raw and punk, can you tell yet?"
but I think Headache is right, it's both right and wrong.
PJ are quite derivative in some spots, but not totally across the board.
It helps that they are still good and often great.
But yeah, I hate most of their songs in the Spin The Crap Circle vein.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
True, I forgot about that one...
djerdap
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
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Got Some and Brain of J are "punk"? That's news to me. If anything is more subjective than the music itself, it is the constant attempt to put individual songs into certain genres or groups. Hell, I barely see any similarities between those two. Spin the Black Circle/Comatose is another story though, so I could see where some of you are coming from on that example.
Oh, and Brain of J is one of their most hard-kicking rockers ever. I adore that track.
Oh, and Brain of J is one of their most hard-kicking rockers ever. I adore that track.
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