After a year...what do you think about NLOTH?

[65980]

You heard it here folks: Keyboards, Guitars, and Bass are not real instruments.

Of which I said nothing. I'm sure Eno, and my 6-year-old nephew, can tinker around a bit on keyboards, kazoo, and triangle. That doesn't make them, in casual parlance, a "real" musician.

For example, can you supply some audio/video evidence of Eno playing a musical instrument at a professional level?

Unless you think Bono is a guitar player on par with Hendrix...

Clearly, Eno's strengths are as an idea-person, not as an instrumentalist.

 

[65980]

65980, do you use your pointy nipple antennae to comprehend what's going on around you?

You are a asshole.

 

[LemonMelon]

You are a asshole.

Oh, I'm just jealous. Besides, what's a Flight of the Conchords reference between friends?

On another topic, I like NLOTH. But I'm not much of a musician.

 

[BVS]

Of which I said nothing. I'm sure Eno, and my 6-year-old nephew, can tinker around a bit on keyboards, kazoo, and triangle. That doesn't make them, in casual parlance, a "real" musician.

For example, can you supply some audio/video evidence of Eno playing a musical instrument at a professional level?

Unless you think Bono is a guitar player on par with Hendrix...

Clearly, Eno's strengths are as an idea-person, not as an instrumentalist.

Now you're backtracking.

Let's remember that the man can't really play an instrument

Can't play and not on par with Hendrix are two extremes.

He's credited on several albums playing either of the three, that's not playing a musical instrument at a professional level? I do believe he got paid for it...

 

[65980]

Now you're backtracking.



Can't play and not on par with Hendrix are two extremes.

He's credited on several albums playing either of the three, that's not playing a musical instrument at a professional level? I do believe he got paid for it...

Yes, I suppose if you want to be an attention-seeker pedantic poster, trying his best to get on my nerves while adding nothing to the discussion, then you are right on the purely literal level -- Eno did play some sort of keyboard or synthesizer on some albums, and he did get paid. So, in the same way that Bono is a professional guitarist or Larry is a professional backing vocalist, Eno is a musician.

But obviously, as you well know, no one hires Eno for his instrumental ability. Eno himself says that he's not a musician. Which is why I wonder why U2 are always so anxious to let him "join" the band.

 

[LemonMelon]

But obviously, as you well know, no one hires Eno for his instrumental ability. Eno himself says that he's not a musician. Which is why I wonder why U2 are always so anxious to let him "join" the band.

Perhaps instincts and creativity are of greater value to them than technical precision? It's certainly in character for U2, a band prized for their innate chemistry, as opposed to raw musical talent.

 

[BVS]

Yes, I suppose if you want to be an attention-seeker pedantic poster, trying his best to get on my nerves while adding nothing to the discussion, then you are right on the purely literal level -- Eno did play some sort of keyboard or synthesizer on some albums, and he did get paid. So, in the same way that Bono is a professional guitarist or Larry is a professional backing vocalist, Eno is a musician.

But obviously, as you well know, no one hires Eno for his instrumental ability. Eno himself says that he's not a musician. Which is why I wonder why U2 are always so anxious to let him "join" the band.

holy heysuus you have some issues...

 

[65980]

Perhaps instincts and creativity are of greater value to them than technical precision? It's certainly in character for U2, a band prized for their innate chemistry, as opposed to raw musical talent.

Well, yes. But instincts and creativity do not equal the ability to play and add something musically if one doesn't know where F-sharp is.

A puppy dog, for example, can hump on instinct, but can he play the violin?

Anyway, I was just trying to express my opinion, which is: Eno as producer / ideas-man = GOOD. Eno as U2's new keyboard player, drenching every track in his 70s ambient album sounds = NO THANKS.

 

[BVS]

Regardless of your opinion, the fact is that anyone who wants to "drench every track in 70's ambient sounds" still needs to know where F-sharp is, otherwise he wouldn't be able to do so. You can have strong opinions about the guy either way, but to say he's not a musican and can't play anything is just careless, false and just weakens your argument. And to get so bent out of shape and start calling people names was just uncalled for and childish...

Eno has brought his musical talents and ideas to many of my favorite albums. And he's not someone that just listens to a song and tweaks from another room, he's always in there suggesting directions to move it, and you can't do that without knowledge of music.

 

[jphelmet]

Eno is a professional musician and has been for a long, long time. This argument is ridiculous.

As for his present worth to the band, that's a different topic. He has undoubtedly pushed U2 to new places, and done great work with them, but i wish they would leave that relationship in the past.

 

[65980]

You can have strong opinions about the guy either way, but to say he's not a musican and can't play anything...

If you're going to attempt to counter my every point, at least quote me accurately. Did I say he can't play anything? No, I didn't. I said he's not "a real musician". He can probably play 'Three Blind Mice'.

...is just careless, false and just weakens your argument.

That might be true if I were attempting to win an argument. I'm not.

And to... start calling people names was just uncalled for and childish...

That (for once) had nothing to do with you. After my non-combative posts, directed at no one, a certain poster (who shall remain nameless) made a sarcastic comment invoking my nipples. Strangely, you (for once) failed to comment on that post. I suppose you consider it mature and tasteful? And I didn't call him a name, I called him "asshole". If the shoe fits, wear it.

Eno has brought his musical talents and ideas to many of my favorite albums.

Mine too. But I think more "ideas" and less "musical talent".

And he's not someone that just listens to a song and tweaks from another room, he's always in there suggesting directions to move it, and you can't do that without knowledge of music.

Well, we're down to semantics now. What is "knowledge of music"? The Beatles couldn't read music, but they sure could sing and play and write. My question is: can Eno really play? (not as in "The Birch Canoe" with two fingers on the keyboard, but can he play a guitar solo or some fat R&B piano?)

 

[65980]

Eno is a professional musician and has been for a long, long time. This argument is ridiculous.

Why is it when I express an opinion or an interpretation, it's suddenly an "argument"?

Anyway, here's a quote from Mojo last year:

"[Eno] dabbled in performance art and championed the cause of the 'non-musician'. By way of demonstration he joined Roxy Music in 1971, playing synthesizer with an utterly shamless lack of technical ability in the heydey of the progressive rock keyboard wizard."

So, there you are. He described himself as a "non-musician". Then there is that interview with him last year (on YouTube) where he calls himself a "terrible keyboard player".

Anyway, I like Brian Eno. My point was just that I don't think he should perform akin to a musician-member of U2. Being a producer is entirely different.

 

[BVS]

If you're going to attempt to counter my every point, at least quote me accurately. Did I say he can't play anything? No, I didn't. I said he's not "a real musician". He can probably play 'Three Blind Mice'.

You said "can't really play an insturment", which is just false. There's really no way around that.

Well, we're down to semantics now. What is "knowledge of music"? The Beatles couldn't read music, but they sure could sing and play and write. My question is: can Eno really play? (not as in "The Birch Canoe" with two fingers on the keyboard, but can he play a guitar solo or some fat R&B piano?)

You're backtracking once again. You said he didn't "know where F sharp is" not that he couldn't play some guitar solo, there's a vast space between those two.

This is a pointless argument, you made some stupid careless false statement that shows you really have no clue about his history or really music in general, and you're desperately trying to hold on to it.

You're usually just arrogant and annoying, but as of late you've just become creepy and delusional.

It's time to ignore you.

 

[65980]

It's time to ignore you.

No, no...! Don't ignore me...!! Why...how could I live???

 

[Sicy]

You all need to stop the arguing and name calling. Use your ignore lists if you dont like each other.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

 

[65980]

I'm glad to see Roland (above) is enjoying this latest fight...

I think I've said enough on this topic -- but since BVS doesn't send me personal messages anymore (a real pity), can I just answer the charge of "backtracking", which he has accused me of 187 times in his last few threads.

I have NOT backtracked. I stand by absolutely everything I said. I said Eno cannot "really play", and I maintain what I said. It's obvious to anyone with an I.Q. larger than their shoe-size that the definition of being able to "really play" is subject to interpretation, and thus that I am not "arguing" anything, but merely expressing my opinion about U2 by using interpretable language.

From my perspective (you know, "Me" -- the one who writes these posts -- and not BVS), Eno is not a "real musician". And Eno himself agrees with me. But of course, that is just Eno's opinion, and anyone is free to disagree with him (or me).

To summarize -- I have not, and am not, backtracking. I stand by absolutely everything I've said on this topic.

 

[AEKU2]

Shit, I thought he played keyboards with Roxy Music once upon a time. Hey maybe it wasn't Eno but his dick that was tapping on those ivories, all that time. Eno not a professional musician? Get off the high horse bud.

 

[bazza]

f'ing great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bonocomet]

Posting for Bono here. (We may as well have his opinion on the topic here as well.)

What is your feeling now, a year later, about "No Line on the Horizon"? Are you disappointed that your fans have not taken to it the way they did "Achtung Baby" or "The Joshua Tree"?

Having listened to it the other day, I can understand that. It's not very accessible, lyrically or musically. Its big song, which may be our biggest, "Moment of Surrender" – I remember that happening to us. It happened in there [points to the living room next door]. It was amazing. I don't know why we needed a record that intense. I like music to be joyous. But you're only in charge of a certain amount of what you're doing.

So we put out a really difficult record. I would have to admit that. If I was a teenager, it would be like a European movie – it's art-house.

(from RS interview 8-19-2010 Bono Storms Back -- RollingStone.com )

 

[65980]

Shit, I thought he played keyboards with Roxy Music once upon a time. Hey maybe it wasn't Eno but his dick that was tapping on those ivories, all that time.

I addressed that in earlier post, so your horse is a bit behind.

 

[Airseven]

1 - War
2 - Achtung Baby
3 - The Joshua Tree
4 - The Unforgettable Fire

5-7 are interchangeable depending on the day...No Line On The Horizon, Rattle & Hum, or Zooropa.

8 - All That You Can't Leave Behind
9 - Boy
10 - Pop
11 - October
12 - How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb

And that is a huge compliment for NLOTH as 1-4 are untouchable and unmatchable.

 

[FitzChivalry]

Hmmm, I haven't made any kind of U2 ranking list in a while. Killing time, so let me give this a shot (though I bet it's still as hard to do as it ever was):

FitzChivalry's Order of Preference (As Opposed To Critical Or Popular Consensus)

1. The Joshua Tree
2. The Unforgettable Fire
3. Achtung Baby
4. Boy
5. Zooropa
6. War
7. Rattle and Hum
8. No Line On The Horizon
9. How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb
10. October
11. All That You Can't Leave Behind
12. Pop


No. 1 and no. 12 are always a lock for me. Filling in the rest is much harder.

So, 'No Line On The Horizon' squeaked in to my top two-thirds. Cool.

 

[Airseven]

1 - No Line On The Horizon
(Compare: Electrical Storm)
Effective intro to the album's overall texture and tone. An original sound comparable to Zooropa and possibly indicative of the ascending, futuristic, space-like direction of the next album.
8/10

2 - Magnificent
(Compare: I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For)
Seems to have all the elements of a classic U2 anthem, however something is missing. Maybe it's the fact that the intro is the best part and the song is never able to match it leaving the listener unsatisfied in the end. Or maybe it's the cheesy title.
6/10

3 - Moment Of Surrender
(Compare: All I Want Is You)
Probably U2's best ballad since One. Strong vocal delivery. Sprawling composition.
9/10

4 - Unknown Caller
(Compare: Tryin' To Throw Your Arms Around The World)
Another great Eno intro. Beautiful melodies, but Bono's recent reliance on ooooooohhhhhhhhs seems to mask his declining lyrical ability. The chanting is unique yet monotonous.
6/10

5 - I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight
(Compare: Sweetest Thing)
Mindless radio sugar pop. Although the percussion is fantastic..keeping the song rolling. A throwaway piece but catchy nonetheless. Live version is horrific.
5/10

6 - Get On Your Boots
(Compare: Vertigo)
U2 trying too hard. Manufactured, over-produced, and totally out of place on the album. A weak single that pales in comparison to the raw simplicity of Vertigo. No emotional depth here whatsoever.
4/10

7 - Stand Up Comedy
(Compare: All Because Of You)
More collateral damage from It Might Get Loud. Edge wants to write a Zep riff so bad, but it just doesn't suit U2 at all. Better served as a b-side.
3/10

8 - FEZ - Being Born
(Compare: Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me)
FEZ is pointless, but Being Born harkens back to the space rock of the opening track. Creative and epic. Every U2 fan wants so badly to compare new songs to the Achtung Baby alt era. Well this one actually does compare.
7/10

9 - White As Snow
(Compare: The Hands That Built America)
An Irish poem recited over acoustic guitars. An emotional, honest track although plain and, like Boots, somewhat out of place on the album.
6/10

10 - Breathe
(Compare: When Love Comes To Town)
A throwback to Rattle & Hum era blues rock. Except the underwhelming chorus similar to thin tracks like Original Of The Species or Window In The Skies sabotages the fun verses.
5/10

11 - Cedars Of Lebanon
(Compare: Love Is Blindness)
The album is bookended fabulously. Creative, original, and brooding.
8/10

 

[Jeef690]

No Line 9/10: WOW. Still just as loud, bold, and rockin' as after the first time I heard the track. This is what I expected the rest of the album to sound like. Subtle guitar work from the Edge, excellent lyrics from Bono, and new rhythms. Still love it.

Magnificent 5/10: Never clicked with this track, live or on the record. Its great background music but not worth listening to on its own. The beginning and the bridge before the solo are the best part. I get sick of Bono's wailing here.

Moment 9/10: Masterpiece. Some of U2's finest work, especially Bono. Vocal and lyrically highlight of the album.

UC 7/10: Very different Eno fingerprints on this one. More organic sounding than the previous tracks. Edge's guitar is familiar, but poignant and powerful.

Crazy Tonight 8/10: Don't understand all the hate on this one. Its a little overproduced but the bridge is fantastic as is the chorus. Still find myself listening to it. Surprised this wasn't a big hit in the US.

Boots 6/10: LOVE this song live but the album version sounds a little flat. Band got caught up in the Eno-Sphere.

Stand Up 3/10: Band put this together at the last minute and it sounds like it. Total throw-away track.

Fez/BB 8/10: This is what I expected on the album. Unique track, something different to listen to when I shuffle tracks on my ipod. Great driving rhythm.

White as Snow 5/10: Nicely arranged piece but a little soul-less. Don't find myself listening to this anymore. Heavy lyrics delivered without much passion.

Breathe 9/10: My favorite from the album for a while. Great guitar and drum riffs. "I found grace inside a sound, I found grace its all I found" is one of my favorite lyrics from the album.

Cedars 7/10: Reminds me of "Love is Blindness" dark, mysterious, chilling. Not sure if the album actually ends or not. They could have titled it "to be continued." I can never listen to Cedars on its own because it doesn't really make sense by itself.


Overall: Some of the songs are great but the album suffers by not being a coherent whole. Crazy Tonight is a great track by itself but not directly after the heavy Moment of Surrender/ Unknown Caller emotion-fest. No Line, Breathe, and Moment definitely rank in U2's finer works and should not be forgotten.

 

[65980]

Stand Up 3/10: Band put this together at the last minute and it sounds like it.

I thought I read that they spent, like, 2 years working on this track.

I do agree that it's pretty cack, though.

 

[adypole]

Now my U2 obsession has died down and switched to a phase of manic Bob Dylan admiration, I'd say The Joshua Tree, Achtung Baby, Rattle and Hum, No Line and Pop are my favourites.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

No Line just sneaks behind my top 5, I'd probably rank it at number 6 on my list of U2 albums. I've said before this one's my favorite of the band's work from this past decade. The other two albums I loved as well, but there were a couple songs here and there that didn't grab me as much. This one, however, I love all of the songs on it. The middle part of the album may not have the "strongest" of songs in terms of album flow (and while I like the song itself and find it incredibly fun to dance to, I hate the title for "Stand Up Comedy"), but I still like the songs themselves.

Top 5 picks would probably be, in no particular order:
1. "Magnificent" Sounds like classic U2.
2. "Moment Of Surrender" Every time I hear this one I feel like I should be getting baptized somewhere, out in some open desert land under a late afternoon/early evening sun. That's always the image that I think of, and I really like that image, for some reason. It's very...peaceful, or something.
3. "White As Snow" Speaking of songs with great imagery... I love this one, it's so unusual for U2 and just utterly gorgeous. I'm a sucker for winter-themed songs .
4. "Breathe" Love how this is sung, love the music, love the big, brash, rumbling sound of it all, this song just rocks.
5. "Cedars Of Lebanon" Excellent lyrics in this one. Follows in the vein of "Sunday Bloody Sunday" and "Please"-the first song was full of anger and rebellion, the second full of sadness and pleading, and now "Cedars", full of resignation and warning. Normally there's hope in U2's political songs, this one doesn't seem to have much of it, if any, and I find that an interesting change for them.

Haven't heard much in the way of live versions, and heard none of the remixes for any of the songs off here, so I can't comment on how the studio versions compare to those. But "Get On Your Boots" and "Stand Up Comedy"-I don't get why people are so bothered by those songs. If that sort of sound isn't your thing, that's fine. It's just that I hear all the time about how U2's always so serious, and yet when they let loose with the occasional fun, dance type of song, people don't like it. And I like "I'll Go Crazy...", too. To each their own, though, I guess .

I'll be very curious to see where they go from here. There's a few sounds in this album I'd like to hear them do a bit more with (a la "Moment Of Surrender" or "White As Snow"), and I'd love to hear the hymn type stuff they were planning to do as well. But if they decide to veer into an entirely different course or do more with the songs they've been playing on tour or whatever, that's fine, too. I look forward to hearing anything else they do down the line.

Angela

 

[cobl04]

No Line on the Horizon - would come very close to being the best track if it had a decent chorus. Pitchfork described it as a "deflating fart" considering the rest of it is good and i still agree with that. 8/10

Magnificent - somewhat cool, dissociated intro aside, this is one of the most overrated songs on this forum. whilst most of you hear magic, i only hear by-numbers meandering and clunky lyrics. saved by the murky bass line. 4/10

Moment of Surrender - best song on the album and possibly of the decade. terrific vocal from Bono and brilliant music that shows the boys have still got it. 10/10

Unknown Caller - a good song ruined for me by the idea behind it. looks like the band lost faith in it pretty quickly too. 6/10

Crazy Tonight - i'm a sucker for the positive, uplifting U2 sometimes and this song has it in spades. sue me 7/10

Get on Your Boots - still enjoy this song in all its ridiculous glory. 7/10

Stand Up Comedy - i don't know if it's as offensively bad as many people here seem to think it is, but if they 40-50 songs and this made the cut i'm not sure i'm too keen on hearing the others. 3/10

Fez-Being Born - terrific. a song that has come to us right out of left field. dark and edgy music, a typical U2 chorus and obscure, minimalistic lyrics - one of my decade favourites. 9/10

White as Snow - something about it - i'm not quite sure what - has bothered me since i first heard it. maybe it's the vocals, which carry far too much weight. it feels like an awful long time until you get to the best part, the "and the water / it was icy..." and the solo. 6/10

Breathe - the hutdabbiest song on the album. i don't particularly like the drum intro or the verses, nor the fact that it appears to be four different song ideas rolled into one. too cluttered. 6/10

Cedars of Lebanon - have loved it from the beginning because, like Moment of Surrender, the title track and Fez, it's something that they haven't often touched upon this decade. wouldn't rank highly on my list of closers, however. 7/10

66%

Atty Club > NLOTH > Hutdab

FitzChivalry's Order of Preference (As Opposed To Critical Or Popular Consensus)

 

[mofo82]

So I was waiting from the very first time I heard 'The Ground Beneath Her Feet' for U2 to build a song that was it's upbeat mate, and I truly feel we got that in 'Magnificent'. Really hit me the first time I heard it, I remember driving into a blinding sunset, and at that moment, Bono coming out of the intro belting out the first 'Magniiiiiiificeeeeent', and it won me right there. With the beautiful slide guitar work and flowing rhythm of the song. I will forever pair 'TGBHF' and 'Magnificent'. I'd die if they ever played those 2 back to back live. Just imagine, 'My oh myyy My oh Myyyyy' into the 'Ooooh Ohh' intro

Now after over a year since NLOTH was released, I am still in love with the album. It's U2 being good at everything they're good at, while being progressive, and better focus on creating atmosphere throughout each song and album. No pun intended, they let this album breathe a little more than the last few. Bono isn't filling every moment with a lyric- I feel ATYCLB and HTDAAB are too wordy and straight forward. NLOTH is the return of Bono's poetry, which enhances the shelf life of the songs, IMO. NLOTH a little disjointed at times, but I believe every album except JT and AB have that characteristic.

Something else that I thought about recently...I imagine, for myself at least, that had 'Crazy Tonight' been recorded and released on NLOTH as it's performed now live, that the album would've felt a little more cohesive. It comes off as too sugary for the rest of the songs and I agree with several of the comments that from #5-#7 Crazy>Boots>SUC that it was too saturated on the pop-rock front. The album didn't start nor end that way, and it might've gone from great to classic for me had they done something different to #5 -#7.

Despite a few of these criticisms, NLOTH is in my top 5 U2 albums, with JT, AB, Zooropa & Boy, no particular order.